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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

CobaltWolf

By CobaltWolf
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Zorg

Zorg

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Deltac said:

I tried a Saturn V fully loaded for Mun landing with the Dnoces S A2's, and that failed to make orbit as well.  However with Dnoces set to 388 max thrust, Saturn V can make orbit, but Saturn IB still fails.

So my preliminary reaction would be a MM file for BDB that boosts the J2's and the H1's.

 

3 minutes ago, birdog357 said:

Did you try lofting? The real rocket was semi lofted.

I just tried a lofted trajectory for the Saturn I with the H1s in the original config (not 1973). I was at around 45 degrees pitch at 40km altitude and was around 20 degrees pitch when I reached space. Set an apoapsis of 140km and entered into 140km x 90km with 300 m/s spare. (In JNSQ)

Edited by Zorg
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Pappystein

Pappystein

Posted
Posted
Just now, birdog357 said:

Did you try lofting? The real rocket was semi lofted.

This is true.  You do not launch a Saturn (any) with a Quick Gravity turn. Rather you throw it straight up(ish) and then bend it over (hence my two launches with a Different Curve...   I made orbit with the second Curve but it was still not right.)

I seem to remember that BITD JSO tried to do this same engine thrust nerf and had the same problems.....    IDK.   I could be miss-remembering because it was about the point I started following this thread that that happened (what 3 years ago now?)

 

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Zorg

Zorg

Posted
Posted

I also just configured a Saturn V real quick. The SII should have a TWR of 0.93 with the LES jettisoned and a fully loaded apollo mission. Again using original J2 rather than an upgrade. Dont need to loft/pitch up as high as the SIV-B on Saturn I, treat it almost like an Atlas ascent and it should make orbit without issues.

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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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Posted
35 minutes ago, birdog357 said:

Did you try lofting? The real rocket was semi lofted.

After it came up earlier, I was curious:

Saturn 1B

S-IVB200_ascent.GIF

ascent.gif

 

Also, I'm planning on streaming both mornings this weekend! :) Starting around... let's say 8 AM Eastern.

Plan for Saturday:

  • Gemini Solar Wings
  • 45 degree Ferry RCS
  • Gemini Docking Antennas
  • Big G '69 (nice) Service Module
  • Large Solar Array for Four Room Space Station
  • Fix (ie non-tracking) Tianja solar arrays
  • Fix-up pass on the KH-10 Dorian

Plan for Sunday:

  • LR-91-AJ3 (single vernier) (I think I'm just going to add these as separate parts)
  • LR-91-AJ5 (quad vernier)
  • LR-91-AJ11 (quad vernier)
  • Short Titan 1 second stage tank
  • 3 segment SRMU
  • Add a variant to SRMUs without the inside hold down block
  • Add a variant to the Titan first stage tanks that gets rid of the hot-staging ports
  • Maybe texture variants? idk
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Pappystein

Pappystein

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, AlphaMensae said:

The Saturn IB also couldn't put a fully-fueled CSM into orbit, so for the LEO missions, only the SM's sump tanks were filled.

Actually that is more of an urban legend than a fact.   The Statement is/was based on an administrative decree + using the wrong data (Saturn I vs Saturn IB)    I did some math on that with one of my College profs (who was an engineer for Apollo blk2 at Rockwell NAA division)   A First run Saturn S-IB CAN lift a full C/SM......   HOWEVER since it would not get above LEO, there was ZERO point to all that fuel.   It was an administrative DECREE by NASA that stated it couldn't carry a full fuel load (and rightfully so!)   The Extra capacity was used for things like the Apollo Soyuz Test Project Docking port....   The Saturn I decidedly CAN NOT Lift a Full S-IVB + full C/SM  That is because the first stage tank is significantly heavier than the S-IB (and has lower powered engines!)

In game, I never fly a Blk2 in LKO with more than 50% max fuel.... Intentionally

 

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Pappystein

Pappystein

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3 hours ago, Friznit said:

 

And because it's you, I updated the MLV wiki page.  I've not bothered to add every variation on the theme, but picked the ones that are markedly different for interest's sake.  I'll add some more pics in a bit.

VERY VERY NICE.   I am about to update the Pafftek folder with a total of three MS-II stages as well as I have made the MS-IVB tankage...  The Key to the MS-IVB is increased strength.   IDK if it is worth including but I am currently testing it.     RE disparity on MS-II tanks that was mentioned previously.   I scaled the mass up by the Real World Percentage.   I forgot Cube Root rules.   They will NOT be a huge gain in Delta-V but the tanks WILL provide more than would otherwise be had now.    

I assume NFLV is Near Future Launch Vehicles? 

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Friznit

Friznit

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

I assume NFLV is Near Future Launch Vehicles? 

Correct.

In case it helps, this is a summary (taken from Astronautix).  With a bit of rounding and KSP Scaling, you basically only need 4 different MLV extended tanks as highlighted to cover all the variants.  The numbers are the real world extensions to the standard tank sizes (not BDB Sarnus Scales).  I'm not sure how increased structural strength translates in KSP game terms - is it strictly necessary or will it just create more parts for the sake of it?

MS-IVB-1A and MS-IVB-2 are are near enough to the same length after scaling, and so are the MS-II-1A and MS-II-2 for that matter, so that just leaves the slightly shorter MS-II-1.

Saturn MLV First Second Third Boosters
MLV-V-1 MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2 MS-IVB-1; 1x J-2  
MLV-V-1/J-2T MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2T    
MLV-V-1A MS-IC-1A (+6.1m); 6x F1 MS-II-1A (+4.7); 7x J2 MS-IVB-1A (+4.7); 1x J-2  
MLV-V-2 MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2 MS-IVB-2 (+5); 1x HG-3  
MLV-V-3 MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-2 (+4.7); 5x HG-3 MS-IVB-2 (+5); 1x HG-3  
MLV-V-4(S) S-IC (5x F1) S-II S-IVB 4x UA1205
MLV-V-4(S)-A MS-IC-4(S)B (+8.5m); 5x F1 MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2 MS-IVB-1; 1x J-2 4x UA1205
MLV-V-4(S)-B MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2T   4x UA1207
ELV MS-IC-4(S)B (+8.5m); 5x F1 MS-II-1A (+4.7); 7x J2 MS-IVB-1A (+4.7); 1x J-2 4x UA1207
Saturn V/4-260 S-IC (5x F1) MS-II-2 (+4.7); 5x HG-3  
4x AJ-260X with addt'l fuel tanks
Saturn V-24(L) MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A S-II MS-IVB-1A (+4.7); 1x J-2
4x MS-LRB-24(L);6.61m dia; 2x F1A
Edited by Friznit
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Pappystein

Pappystein

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Friznit said:

Correct.

In case it helps, this is a summary (taken from Astronautix).  With a bit of rounding and KSP Scaling, you basically only need 4 different MLV extended tanks as highlighted to cover all the variants.  The numbers are the real world extensions to the standard tank sizes (not BDB Sarnus Scales).  I'm not sure how increased structural strength translates in KSP game terms - is it strictly necessary or will it just create more parts for the sake of it?

 

Saturn MLV First Second Third Boosters
MLV-V-1 MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2 MS-IVB-1; 1x J-2  
MLV-V-1/J-2T MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2T    
MLV-V-1A MS-IC-1A (+6.1m); 6x F1 MS-II-1A (+4.7); 7x J2 MS-IVB-1A (+4.7); 1x J-2  
MLV-V-2 MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2 MS-IVB-2 (+5); 1x HG-3  
MLV-V-3 MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-2 (+4.7); 5x HG-3 MS-IVB-2 (+5); 1x HG-3  
MLV-V-4(S) S-IC (5x F1) S-II S-IVB 4x UA1205
MLV-V-4(S)-A MS-IC-4(S)B (+8.5m); 5x F1 MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2 MS-IVB-1; 1x J-2 4x UA1205
MLV-V-4(S)-B MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A MS-II-1 (+1); 5x J-2T   4x UA1207
ELV MS-IC-4(S)B (+8.5m); 5x F1 MS-II-1A (+4.7); 7x J2 MS-IVB-1A (+4.7); 1x J-2 4x UA1207
Saturn V/4-260 S-IC (5x F1) MS-II-2 (+4.7); 5x HG-3  
4x AJ-260X with addt'l fuel tanks
Saturn V-24(L) MS-IC-1 (+6.1m); 5x F1A S-II MS-IVB-1A (+4.7); 1x J-2
4x MS-LRB-24(L);6.61m dia; 2x F1A

Nice Chart.  Yeah I went overboard a bit on the MLVs... But there are several Stages that are "Orphans" as well that did not make it into the final MLV document (where those various MLV model numbers come from like MLV-V-1)

And yes structural strength DOES impact the game... If the original parts are set to what they should be.....   I built the MS-IVB parts on a whim and will probably not upload them.

The MS-IVB Stretch is just the S-IVC length and fuel wise so if I ignore the Strength differences no new parts.

 

 

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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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Bunch of stuff got done today! In total:
- LR-91-AJ3 single vernier
- LR-91-AJ5 four vernier
- LR-91-AJ11 four vernier
- Gray variants for Titan 1 and Titan first stage texture sheets
- Cleaned up white texture variants
- 23G variant for the second stage
- SOLTAN 1.5m SRB
- SOLTAN nose cone with 0.9375m node switch
- 0.9375m node switch for 1.875m SRB nose cone
- 0.9375m booster recovery parachute
- new mesh variant for upper first stage tanks to remove the hotstaging portholes

In addition to yesterday's:

- new switch for SRMUs to make them fit on LDC better
- SRMU-XL
- Short Titan 1.5m second stage tank

EyfqVM3.png
asyMmEG.png
5ukzWhX.png
ln0fUnO.png

 

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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

WIP, posted without further comment

An idea. Could a single black tank be made available as a separate part? Would be great for small and good-looking monoprop storage. :) 

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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

An idea. Could a single black tank be made available as a separate part? Would be great for small and good-looking monoprop storage. :) 

I'll see. I'm going to have to have a second texture sheet for the interstage anyways... speaking of which, that's going to have some variants too... :)

Also, I must say - it's not me you have to thank for this! @blowfish did a wonderful job modeling this part for me! I just had to texture it. :)

In the meantime, an update to the Commercial Titan 3 fairing base! Be warned, it doesn't seem to work with Jso's PF patch.

ldYqN3D.png

EDIT: Commercial Titan 3 upper stage texture... I think a first stage variant needs to get done as well.

Li5k99g.png

Edited by CobaltWolf
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