[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[biohazard15]

So, my Mercury-Quad Redstone became somewhat less reliable after recent mass increase (by that, I mean it flies somewhat worse with MJ - it can reach 120x120 2.5x LKO orbit, but barely).

Solution: classic Kerbal, i.e. moar boosters.

Since a) I want to assemble this rocket on science Tier 2, and b) I'm all about looks, here it is: boosters on fins!

With their own fins!

Quad Redstone now back on track, with 400% better looks!

Boosters aren't designed to be jettisoned - there is no BDB radial decoupler in Tier 2. Instead, their thrust is limited to 40%, to match Quad Redstone's burn time. Besides, why would you want to jettison them? They are boosters on fins. BOOSTERS. ON. FINS. With their own fins. What could be more awesome?

[Pappystein]

Nice Shots mcdouble!

I too launch my first GATV yesterday... I won't show the full flight (it was a simple up and back for a Titan Gemini)  But check this shot out during launch:

Angry Alligator Angry Alligator, Angry Alligator..... Angry Alligator!

The Shroud did not clear until after GATV separation from the SLV-3 Launch vehicle.

EDIT

And no for those of you wondering at home.  Blind Stupid Duda luck... I didn't plan that nor was I able to reproduce that as of yet!

*DOH!*  Wagner Die Walkurie (AKA Flight of the Valkyries) is what you sing the first line to!

Edited March 23, 2020 by Pappystein

[nepphhh]

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

 

Actually TBC I said the booster... as in the booster skirt.   You can place them on the bottom half of the engine lobes (near the LR89s) or in the Center where the two rectangles are (I don't because IRL the LR101 attitude adjustment verniers would burn them up!)  2x LR-89s and the skirt itself recovery cost is just over 1.1x the cost difference between the two rockets (I checked with a launch.)   So BARELY is the Atlas Cheaper than LGM-118.  But then again, 10G, Break your parts BadA ride for a BadA pilot?!   Yup.  Jebs new ride EVERY TIME!

 

But yes, With a heat-shield mounted SOMEWHERE, Stage-Recover will allow you to recover the core stage.... Provided it somehow makes it back to Kerbin.    It is hard to do due to the needing the heat shield (which just looks weird on a bare tank, even if you put it at the nose or bury it between two tanks!) and there is not a lot of room for radial parachutes... You will need about 4 or 8, depending on if you use Real-Chutes.

 

You plan on recovering... a balloon tank?? In how many pieces?

[biohazard15]

Back to mundane stuff...

1) Etoh-AF Redstone fins turn invisible when you choose green paintjob (missing or bugged texture, I guess?)

2) TIROS-1 nodes are misaligned (or maybe I'm using the wrong decoupler?):

[MashAndBangers]

Hmm...

Hmm.........

[biohazard15]

1 minute ago, MashAndBangers said:

Hmm...

Hmm.........

Is this even legal? 

[biohazard15]

On 3/22/2020 at 10:06 AM, Zorg said:

If 2M and 3.5M work for you I can look at bumping them up actually. Thats still below the HG5 so I think that works for the tech balance (which is a whole nother can of worms).

After playing with these ranges for some time, there's my impressions. Note that this is for 2.5x, zero inclination, 400km circular orbit:

- You need at least 8-9 sats (Courier\Telstar) to make a "ring" (i.e. each sat can see next\previous sat)

- They cannot guarantee you a reliable network. Best you can do is to launch your probe to be near one of the sats. Anything beyond that is a matter of luck

- Absolutely nothing OP detected

I'd say bump them up - otherwise they'll be useless in rescales unless you launch a ton of them. Even then, I see only two uses for them - a) teach new players about comm network principles and b) comm networks around small bodies.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, nepphhh said:

You plan on recovering... a balloon tank?? In how many pieces?

No, I don't actually recover the Balloon tank.  It is about as effective as making a balloon out of lead sheets (it can be done!)   Rather, I just recover the booster skirt.      I was saying that with the mod Stage-Recovery it is possible to recover an Atlas Tank and how to do it.  

 Personally it isn't worth the cost and effort... now a Titan Tank.  That is something different and I have recovered many First stages.    Like Balloon tanks, I don't bother recovering the 2nd stage (it is not worth the added costs in heat shield and parachutes... you have to practically drop it on KSP to get enough credits to be valuable and gee golly I won't put that much effort into it (nor will I subject all my Kerbals to falling debris from a GOOD launch!.   Hey they have to deal with all my mistakes yes?!

 

51 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

Back to mundane stuff...

1) Etoh-AF Redstone fins turn invisible when you choose green paintjob (missing or bugged texture, I guess?)

2) TIROS-1 nodes are misaligned (or maybe I'm using the wrong decoupler?):

  Hide contents

 

 

So I haven't dled the Dev build in a few days (I think right after the new SLA fairing for Ablestar) but I have run an all green Redstone without issue.    Maybe re-dl the dev build and do a DELETE and install of the base BDB folder only?

[Pappystein]

21 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

After playing with these ranges for some time, there's my impressions. Note that this is for 2.5x, zero inclination, 400km circular orbit:

- You need at least 8-9 sats (Courier\Telstar) to make a "ring" (i.e. each sat can see next\previous sat)

- They cannot guarantee you a reliable network. Best you can do is to launch your probe to be near one of the sats. Anything beyond that is a matter of luck

- Absolutely nothing OP detected

I'd say bump them up - otherwise they'll be useless in rescales unless you launch a ton of them. Even then, I see only two uses for them - a) teach new players about comm network principles and b) comm networks around small bodies.

and IDCSP is unlocked one node away.....   So they don't have a BIG use in the whole Comm Network thing on their own (See my previous post of a Kerbostationary 8 sat Constellation above!)     I had good communication with my Agena Mun shot even slightly occluded from Kerbin (due to satellite placement.)     I know that others are looking into balance and I am as well (no promises I am just building a Spreadsheet that calculates efficiency of the various stock and BDB antennas to try to identify Generations of antennas and performance issues within the generations.)     In Real Life, Telstar and Courier were not Geostationary..  because of that, I think they are actually RIGHT given your description.   Neither satellite had a long life in orbit (Failure of both and decay of Courier,)  and neither was part of any permanent Communication network.

 

EDIT.  They were a "Catch and use as you can" Satellite because of orbital dynamics/periods.   So if the Satellite was overhead (or you had a simple recording to be re-broadcast later in the case of Courier) you had a useful communication sat.   If you want full time Communication....... you need something else.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Pappystein
Corrected Decay to Failure and decay

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, biohazard15 said:

Is this even legal? 

Legal?  Sure....    Right???/   err... um....

That being said, Nice Rocket @MashAndBangers  what are the boosters?  (Please don't say Quad A-7 Redstone engines! )

[biohazard15]

3 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Maybe re-dl the dev build and do a DELETE and install of the base BDB folder only?

Just did that - no luck:

Note that the bug occurs only on Etoh-AF fins. Etoh-CS work fine.

9 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

and IDCSP is unlocked one node away.....   So they don't have a BIG use in the whole Comm Network thing on their own (See my previous post of a Kerbostationary 8 sat Constellation above!)     I had good communication with my Agena Mun shot even slightly occluded from Kerbin (due to satellite placement.)     I know that others are looking into balance and I am as well (no promises I am just building a Spreadsheet that calculates efficiency of the various stock and BDB antennas to try to identify Generations of antennas and performance issues within the generations.)     In Real Life, Telstar and Courier were not Geostationary..  because of that, I think they are actually RIGHT given your description.   Neither satellite had a long life in orbit (decay,)  and neither was part of any permanent Communication network.

 

EDIT.  They were a "Catch and use as you can" Satellite because of orbital dynamics/periods.   So if the Satellite was overhead (or you had a simple recording to be re-broadcast later in the case of Courier) you had a useful communication sat.   If you want full time Communication....... you need something else.

Still, current 1-2M is simply not enough for rescales, IMO. Especially if you don't like to rush through the tech tree, but want to limit yourself to low-tech stuff as long as possible. It may be OK for stock-sized planets, but targeting stock for a couple of early sats while the rest of the mod is targeting 2.5x seems strange.

4 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Please don't say Quad A-7 Redstone engines!

That's what they are 

@Pappystein Note to myself: never, ever use spoiler tag on this forum. All other forum engines recognize it correctly, but not this abomination. I hate this forum engine.

[MashAndBangers]

7 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Please don't say Quad A-7 Redstone engines!

Okay, I won't. 

[CobaltWolf]

[Pappystein]

9 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

Note to myself: never, ever use spoiler tag on this forum. All other forum engines recognize it correctly, but not this abomination. I hate this forum engine.

Err.   I used a spoiler tag?   I did use the spoiler button in the message editor... but not the actual tagging (Manual HTML and BBS tagging is so 1990s!) 

After re-reading your post a few times it looks like the Cursor was still in the spoiler window when you clicked on my message to quote me back.  I have a heck of a time with that on any forum I frequent (which is to say not many)

my post earlier had me quoting someone else in your quote that was in a spoiler window as well... I had to re-edit the reply before posting (thankfully I caught it.)    CTRL-X and CTRL-V are your friend when that happens!

============================================================================================================================================

Re: Telstar 1 And Courier.   IRL they were not meant to be a part of a communication network and were instead TEST devices to see if Radio communications through space were feasible and more importantly USABLE.   They fill that role perfectly.    Now I understand wanting to stretch your time out before moving on (well no I don't but that is just me...)   But you are asking a lot of a satellite meant to work ~20 minutes of every orbit of 106 minutes.    (Or ~37 minutes in the case of the  Eliptical orbit of Telstar1) 

IRL Telstar 1 max altitude is 5632km   The Satellite is for GROUND to GROUND communication so an antenna with a range of 1.75x that should be plenty powerful. 

I am attempting to build a spreadsheet to showcase all the antennas in BDB and stock to help with antenna balance.  I will note max altitude IRL for Telstar 1 as well as your alternate use for said satellite.  I don't know how much I will impact the balance pass but I am just trying to help out.

Just now, CobaltWolf said:

 

Oof!  NICE work!   Oh and while this is on my mind... Thanks for Returning the RED to the Black and Red scheme that McDonald used on the Mercury and Mercury 2 programs!

I know you have a lot of work to do yet but two questions did just kind of pop into my head.   RCS integrated with each half of the SM?   

Will the interleaved burn mode support a burn at once for Abort (I haven't checked with the Mercury retros yet so sorry if it should be obvious!)

Ok so it was 3 questions:  How far off proportionally was the old CM cone vs real/new CM cone?   AKA will the existing IVAs still match?

 

[biohazard15]

23 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Err.   I used a spoiler tag?   I did use the spoiler button in the message editor... but not the actual tagging (Manual HTML and BBS tagging is so 1990s!) 

After re-reading your post a few times it looks like the Cursor was still in the spoiler window when you clicked on my message to quote me back.  I have a heck of a time with that on any forum I frequent (which is to say not many)

my post earlier had me quoting someone else in your quote that was in a spoiler window as well... I had to re-edit the reply before posting (thankfully I caught it.)    CTRL-X and CTRL-V are your friend when that happens!

I meant my own post, with Etoh-AF bug. The only thing supposed to be under spoiler were screenshots, but due to some bug everything I wrote after ended to be under it. I really don't know (and frankly, don't want to know) why this forum doesn't like my use of spoiler tags (and yes, I usually apply these manually - I'm that old!). From now on, I'll just post my pics as is. People with slow internet - I'm sorry, I really am, but I don't want to change my habits for one forum.

29 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

I am attempting to build a spreadsheet to showcase all the antennas in BDB and stock to help with antenna balance.  I will note max altitude IRL for Telstar 1 as well as your alternate use for said satellite.  I don't know how much I will impact the balance pass but I am just trying to help out.

Please do - this will really help with balancing. If that's not too much, please include NFEx - it adds a whole new level with its small combinable antennas and reflectors, and I feel it would be wise to keep it in mind.

35 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I like it, but... is it supposed to look so... smooth? Current Gemini looks better IMO.

[Pappystein]

18 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

Please do - this will really help with balancing. If that's not too much, please include NFEx - it adds a whole new level with its small combinable antennas and reflectors, and I feel it would be wise to keep it in mind.

I don't know about NFEx, only because that actually changes how combinable antennas work (I haven't gotten into the guts of it so I might be wrong.)

18 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

 (and yes, I usually apply these manually - I'm that old!).

 

Heh,  I used to admin a local BBS before Al Gore *Cough* DARPA, invented, created and released it to us*Cough* made the Internet a public thing so I get it.   I just prefer to use the forum's tools to avoid such issues.  You know, when 9600baud was king of speed and 4 megabytes of Ram was a stonkin LARGE amount of ram and 25mhz was the fastest computer you could buy!

I just sometimes look to the right of my keyboard and wonder why that pedal is there instead of on the floor.   The Blue G on the Pedal is now glowing and blinking at me!   Bha! it is alive!.....   Oh wait.  I forgot what a mouse was for! DOH!   And yes in my early days of computer sales at-least once a week I had someone ask what the foot pedal was for (meaning their mouse)

18 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

I like it, but... is it supposed to look so... smooth? Current Gemini looks better IMO.

Just guessing here..  But that looks like a 3D model only... so Texturing Texturing Texturing? 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Pappystein
nostalgia

[CobaltWolf]

38 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

I like it, but... is it supposed to look so... smooth? Current Gemini looks better IMO.

24 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Just guessing here..  But that looks like a 3D model only... so Texturing Texturing Texturing? 

I'm not even close to finishing modeling it let alone texturing it I just wanted to give people a little bit of an update on it / let everyone know I'm messing with it more.

 

[MashAndBangers]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Uh, reporting your post for NSFW!

[biohazard15]

10 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'm not even close to finishing modeling it let alone texturing it I just wanted to give people a little bit of an update on it / let everyone know I'm messing with it more.

The worst part, however, is the delay of 1.7.0 release.

[CDSlice]

51 minutes ago, biohazard15 said:

The worst part, however, is the delay of 1.7.0 release.

Nah that's fine, it makes every release feel like an amazing new DLC. Plus I don't want to have to restart my save again so soon...

[Jso]

3 hours ago, biohazard15 said:

After playing with these ranges for some time, there's my impressions. Note that this is for 2.5x, zero inclination, 400km circular orbit:

- You need at least 8-9 sats (Courier\Telstar) to make a "ring" (i.e. each sat can see next\previous sat)

- They cannot guarantee you a reliable network. Best you can do is to launch your probe to be near one of the sats. Anything beyond that is a matter of luck

- Absolutely nothing OP detected

I'd say bump them up - otherwise they'll be useless in rescales unless you launch a ton of them. Even then, I see only two uses for them - a) teach new players about comm network principles and b) comm networks around small bodies.

I'm thinking about bumping the weak (<500K stock scale) antennas to make the vessel - sat connection more usable, and I added a relay info button to help with planning. We have a lot of weak antennas. Courier and IDCSP look about right to me.

If you're rolling you're own rescale, you should scale your antennas to be antennaPower * rescale to be on the same page as everyone else. We balance on the assumption that will be the case.

[biohazard15]

49 minutes ago, Jso said:

I'm thinking about bumping the weak (<500K stock scale) antennas to make the vessel - sat connection more usable, and I added a relay info button to help with planning. We have a lot of weak antennas. Courier and IDCSP look about right to me.

If you're rolling you're own rescale, you should scale your antennas to be antennaPower * rescale to be on the same page as everyone else. We balance on the assumption that will be the case.

Thanks but no thanks. Stock antennas are OP in stock, and rescaling them would make them OP in rescale, maybe even more OP than in stock.

Guess I'll just use my MM patch then.

[Retro Starship]

19 hours ago, mcdouble said:

Was playing around with editing some screenshots, the results were quite nice

HAHA had to look at this 5 times.... I cant even tell whats real and not real anymore! Wow!!

[Zorg]

More historical photo fakery lol.

Anyway the Atlas SLV3B fairing is now up on Github. The fairing is an interesting one as pointed out earlier, the lower ribbed section does not split and sits on top of the fairing/adapter part that Cobalt made a couple of days ago. The second ribbed section splits together with the upper section. Since the SLV3B fairing ended up as the basis for the longer Atlas Centaur shroud, expect to see this reused for the revamped Centaur when it gets here.

Once B9 switching of SAF fairings gets here, the split sections will be made available for the flat 1.875m base, the Delta 1.875m miniskirt and the drop tank agena support skirt.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Zorg

[Zorg]

 Oh and another thing, thanks to @Morphisor, BDB is getting custom contracts. The first batch has been merged into the github just now and feedback is appreciated on this issue.

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/issues/829

The contracts are available if Contract Configurator is installed. CC is not being considered as a dependency but rather a recommended mod.