[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Zorg]

9 minutes ago, Gupyzer0 said:

You're putting some hours on this Zorg, they're looking great. What else do you need to do to finish the Atlas revamp? I mean I can see that you made an issue a long time ago but it's been "kind off abandoned" -> https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/issues/974

Thats not really abandoned, I did update it a couple of months ago as well although planning started a VERY long time ago lol. But I only tick things off once I get a functional version in game and relatively stable. There might be a couple of omissions, I'll go over it again soon.

About half that list is modelled and textured now (and more than half workload wise). I will probably do this in two phases so most of what I've shown is going to go start going in game once I've finished the emissives for the engines. Most of whats in that list starting with SLV-3X and below will be phase 2 which I will start on once I get phase 1 in game.

ps. By phase 1 and 2 I just mean in terms of my work. All of this likely will be part of the same BDB update.

[Gupyzer0]

6 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Thats not really abandoned, I did update it a couple of months ago as well although planning started a VERY long time ago lol. But I only tick things off once I get a functional version in game and relatively stable. There might be a couple of omissions, I'll go over it again soon.

About half that list is modelled and textured now (and more than half workload wise). I will probably do this in two phases so most of what I've shown is going to go start going in game once I've finished the emissives for the engines. Most of whats in that list starting with SLV-3X and below will be phase 2 which I will start on once I get phase 1 in game.

ps. By phase 1 and 2 I just mean in terms of my work. All of this likely will be part of the same BDB update.

Just saw the edit, my bad , thanks for the reply!

[zw_45]

@CobaltWolf, I found some weird thing about the drag force of x15 fuselage. At Mach 1.4 / 15000m, the total drag is 71kN, which might be too big for a plane of this size.

Then I set “dragModelType = none” and “useInternalDragModel = True”, the total drag becomes 42kN at Mach 1.5 / 14000m. I think this would be more reasonable, and the final speed is Mach 4.2 / 22500m.

Edited April 24, 2024 by zw_45

[GoldForest]

3 hours ago, zw_45 said:

@CobaltWolf, I found some weird thing about the drag force of x15 fuselage. At Mach 1.4 / 15000m, the total drag is 71kN, which might be too big for a plane of this size.

Then I set “dragModelType = none” and “useInternalDragModel = True”, the total drag becomes 42kN at Mach 1.5 / 14000m. I think this would be more reasonable, and the final speed is Mach 4.2 / 22500m.

 

Is this with or without the new update? 

[zw_45]

24 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Is this with or without the new update? 

I didn’t test the new update.

[GoldForest]

I got Mach 5.87 (2012 m/s) at between 35km to 40km. I launched X-15 on top of a Juno rocket. 

Edited April 24, 2024 by GoldForest

[CobaltWolf]

12 hours ago, zw_45 said:

@CobaltWolf, I found some weird thing about the drag force of x15 fuselage. At Mach 1.4 / 15000m, the total drag is 71kN, which might be too big for a plane of this size.

Then I set “dragModelType = none” and “useInternalDragModel = True”, the total drag becomes 42kN at Mach 1.5 / 14000m. I think this would be more reasonable, and the final speed is Mach 4.2 / 22500m.

9 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Is this with or without the new update? 

8 hours ago, zw_45 said:

I didn’t test the new update.

6 hours ago, GoldForest said:

I got Mach 5.87 (2012 m/s) at between 35km to 40km. I launched X-15 on top of a Juno rocket. 

Yes, last night we discovered that having open/missing endcaps on the parts really messed up the drag forces. I put placeholder endcaps in the missing areas and everything is behaving much better now. I never would have guessed that was the issue - I'd assumed it generated the drag cubes based on the colliders.

Huge thanks to @CashnipLeaf for holding my hand through the whole process and figuring this all out!

There's still a lot of work to be done, especially with that pesky ventral fin, not to mention finishing the uprated versions of the plane. I'll have to get a GitHub issue together for tracking everything.

 

Edited April 24, 2024 by CobaltWolf

[CashnipLeaf]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yes, last night we discovered that having open/missing endcaps on the parts really messed up the drag forces. I put placeholder endcaps in the missing areas and everything is behaving much better now. I never would have guessed that was the issue - I'd assumed it generated the drag cubes based on the colliders.

Yeah, the end result was that the generated drag cubes had a much smaller front or rear face than they should have, resulting in the front and/or rear drag cube faces of connected parts not getting occluded, which added a considerable amount of drag, especially at transonic speeds. That thing could not glide to save its life.

With the fixed drag cubes, drag went down by between 1/3 and 1/2, depending on the AoA, the L/D ratio went up significantly, and it can actually glide now! LOL

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Huge thanks to @CashnipLeaf for holding my hand through the whole process and figuring this all out!

Anytime, m8! 

Edited April 24, 2024 by CashnipLeaf

[Pudgemountain]

Wild Wind IV successfully orbits Windswept.

[Ultim32]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:51 PM, zw_45 said:

My temporary solution for the VentralFin is deleting ModuleParachute and ModuleDragModifier.

@PART[bluedog_X15_VentralFin]
{
    !MODULE[ModuleParachute] {}
    !MODULE[ModuleDragModifier],* {}
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleB9DisableTransform
        transform = canopy
    }
}

What should i delete in the config? Mine stops loading when it starts up and it gets stuck on the ventral fin

[Gupyzer0]

2 hours ago, Ultim32 said:

What should i delete in the config? Mine stops loading when it starts up and it gets stuck on the ventral fin

What you see in his post is patch that does what he said (delete ModuleParachute and ModuleDragModifier).

[zw_45]

14 hours ago, CashnipLeaf said:

Yeah, the end result was that the generated drag cubes had a much smaller front or rear face than they should have, resulting in the front and/or rear drag cube faces of connected parts not getting occluded, which added a considerable amount of drag, especially at transonic speeds. That thing could not glide to save its life.

With the fixed drag cubes, drag went down by between 1/3 and 1/2, depending on the AoA, the L/D ratio went up significantly, and it can actually glide now! LOL

Anytime, m8! 

Thanks a lot!Mind me to ask a question about aero force here?

I suspend the x15 under the airliner wing to launch it. But the drag of fuselage and engine does not seem to be occluded (even if I decouple it from the mothership). My thought was that the airliner wing does not use drag model and anything behind the wing will not be occluded. But then I set “DragModelType” of the airliner wing to default, and the fuselage still generate enormous amount of drag. Do you have any idea on how this was calculated?

7 hours ago, Ultim32 said:

What should i delete in the config? Mine stops loading when it starts up and it gets stuck on the ventral fin

Copy the entire text to a txt file and change the suffix to .cfg, then put the cfg file in GameData folder.

[CashnipLeaf]

9 minutes ago, zw_45 said:

Thanks a lot!Mind me to ask a question about aero force here?

I suspend the x15 under the airliner wing to launch it. But the drag of fuselage and engine does not seem to be occluded (even if I decouple it from the mothership). My thought was that the airliner wing does not use drag model and anything behind the wing will not be occluded. But then I set “DragModelType” of the airliner wing to default, and the fuselage still generate enormous amount of drag. Do you have any idea on how this was calculated?

Did CobaltWolf push the changes yet? If not, you might still be using the old, scuffed drag cubes rather than the new ones.

If you do have the updated parts, try deleting your PartDatabase.cfg file if it exists. This can be found in KSP's root folder. Doing so will make KSP recalculate the drag cubes of all the parts.

Edited April 25, 2024 by CashnipLeaf

[zw_45]

1 minute ago, CashnipLeaf said:

Did CobaltWolf push the changes yet? If not, you might still be using the old, scuffed drag cubes rather than the new ones.

If you do have the updated parts, try deleting your PartDatabase.cfg file if it exists. This can be found in KSP's root folder.

I’m using the updated model and the part database has been reset. The aero force is perfectly normal if I launch it independently.

[CashnipLeaf]

That is......... weird. I wonder if the aero debug data might reveal anything interesting.

EDIT: Is the drag coming from the fuselage, or from whatever mounted it to the underside of the airliner wing? 

Edited April 25, 2024 by CashnipLeaf

[zw_45]

11 minutes ago, CashnipLeaf said:

That is......... weird. I wonder if the aero debug data might reveal anything interesting.

EDIT: Is the drag coming from the fuselage, or from whatever mounted it to the underside of the wing? 

Mainly from fuselage and engine. Any part with CoM ahead of the wing get occluded. Tried stock airliner wing and get similar results.

Edited April 25, 2024 by zw_45

[CashnipLeaf]

That is very interesting. I will fwd this to CobaltWolf. 

These drag cubes are just the gift that keeps on giving, huh?

[Taco Salad]

I've tried researching it on my own but, I can't find anything on them so I gotta ask. 
Is the F1-V, the vacuum variant inspired by any proposed design, or are they purely fictional?

[zw_45]

7 hours ago, CashnipLeaf said:

That is very interesting. I will fwd this to CobaltWolf. 

These drag cubes are just the gift that keeps on giving, huh?

Did more test on this, the engine is occluded as it supposed to be, but the fuselage cannot be occluded whether I put it ahead or after the airliner wing.

[Davi SDF]

6 hours ago, Taco Salad said:

I've tried researching it on my own but, I can't find anything on them so I gotta ask. 
Is the F1-V, the vacuum variant inspired by any proposed design, or are they purely fictional?

It's fictional, but it's probably something that could have been easily done if they needed a Vacuum F-1 variant

[Ultim32]

14 hours ago, zw_45 said:

Thanks a lot!Mind me to ask a question about aero force here?

I suspend the x15 under the airliner wing to launch it. But the drag of fuselage and engine does not seem to be occluded (even if I decouple it from the mothership). My thought was that the airliner wing does not use drag model and anything behind the wing will not be occluded. But then I set “DragModelType” of the airliner wing to default, and the fuselage still generate enormous amount of drag. Do you have any idea on how this was calculated?

Copy the entire text to a txt file and change the suffix to .cfg, then put the cfg file in GameData folder.

Ok thanks, I tried deleting anything after the parachute module in the ventral fin cfg, and that allowed me to load the game yesterday.

[GoldForest]

@CobaltWolf A lot of parts need to be rotated, they don't come out of the part list in the right oreintation. 
 

Also, why the size reduction? 

Also also, now it is unstable, really bad. I get endless aileron roll spinning and the control surfaces and RCS combined can't counteract it.  Even Atmospheric Autopilot can't cope. 

Also also also, the extended fuselage doesn't seem to have a node. 

Also also also also, would you put a node on the engine to allow for vertically mounting the X-15 on rockets? Like in this picture:

[CobaltWolf]

On 4/25/2024 at 3:17 AM, CashnipLeaf said:

That is very interesting. I will fwd this to CobaltWolf. 

These drag cubes are just the gift that keeps on giving, huh?

*whimpers*

 

On 4/25/2024 at 5:21 AM, Taco Salad said:

I've tried researching it on my own but, I can't find anything on them so I gotta ask. 
Is the F1-V, the vacuum variant inspired by any proposed design, or are they purely fictional?

23 hours ago, Davi SDF said:

It's fictional, but it's probably something that could have been easily done if they needed a Vacuum F-1 variant

I made it since it was an easy edit after being inspired by this image; I don't know any more context than that

 

6 hours ago, GoldForest said:

@CobaltWolf A lot of parts need to be rotated, they don't come out of the part list in the right oreintation. 

Yes, I don't think I can change that. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the required orientations for lifting/control surfaces and wheels are hard coded and can't be changed. So all the aero surfaces need to start in the "wing" orientation, even if they're meant to be vertical tail surfaces. And the nose gear needs to be oriented such that the deployed wheel is Y-down.

 

6 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Also, why the size reduction?

When I made the X-15, I made it at 1.25m (actually, 1.27m on accident). I didn't check the real scale. It never occurred to me that a KSP X-15 wouldn't be 1.25m. But 1.25m X-15 is nearly real-scale. If I kept it that size, it would seriously throw off any potential carrier aircraft, and I just didn't want to cause a cascade of issues leading from that one lazy decision.

 

6 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Also also, now it is unstable, really bad. I get endless aileron roll spinning and the control surfaces and RCS combined can't counteract it.  Even Atmospheric Autopilot can't cope.

I haven't rebalanced any of the aero after making the scaling change. In my defense - my tummy hurt a bit last night.

 

6 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Also also also, the extended fuselage doesn't seem to have a node.

I think the rescaleFactor is messing with it, I will have to look.

 

6 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Also also also also, would you put a node on the engine to allow for vertically mounting the X-15 on rockets? Like in this picture:

Fine.

 

 

EDIT: Pic unrelated, brought to you by the X-15 gang member @LoadingTimeExpert

 

Edited April 26, 2024 by CobaltWolf

[LoadingTimeExpert]

Ooh nice meme, it seems very familiar *wink wink*

[ra4nd0m]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:00 AM, GoldForest said:

X-15. (IDK why, but on my laptop on my main game, it loads fine, but on my desktop with JUST BDB and dependencies installed, it throws the error.)

Also, @CobaltWolf X-15's engine needs a node.  (For those wondering, the engine doesn't have a node on bottom/end, so I had to use some trickery.)

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

(Oops, overshot the KSP... oh well. At least the landing was soft enough the craft survived a water landing.)

Now THAT'S what I've been waiting x-15 for.
We are going to the Moon with this baby.

Saturn V is waiting