[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[CollectingSP]

#TeamV

(Just a little something I've been working on...)

Delta IV @SLC-6, VSFB, CA

 

 

[BSS_Snag]

6 minutes ago, CollectingSP said:

#TeamV

(Just a little something I've been working on...)

Delta IV @SLC-6, VSFB, CA

 

 

Looks amazing, you got any of those... Kerbal konstructs... Statics?

[CollectingSP]

15 minutes ago, BSS_Snag said:

Looks amazing, you got any of those... Kerbal konstructs... Statics?

Some of the statics are public, but most aren't.

The majority of the actual pad structure and mobile service/assembly towers are completely custom, with some of the greebles being from other KK mods.

I've also made custom statics for SLC-37B at Cape Canaveral, that way I can get it looking as realistic as possible.

[DaveyJ576]

4 hours ago, CollectingSP said:

Some of the statics are public, but most aren't.

The majority of the actual pad structure and mobile service/assembly towers are completely custom, with some of the greebles being from other KK mods.

I've also made custom statics for SLC-37B at Cape Canaveral, that way I can get it looking as realistic as possible.

Is that Saturn SLC-37B or the Delta 37B? Would love to have the historic version. Kitbashing it is possible, but I don't have statics to make it look right.

[DaveyJ576]

There used to be (recently) two separate Gemini RCS blocks. One for roll control and the other for pitch and yaw. Did those get deleted or have they had a B9PS merge with another part?

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, DaveyJ576 said:

There used to be (recently) two separate Gemini RCS blocks. One for roll control and the other for pitch and yaw. Did those get deleted or have they had a B9PS merge with another part?

IIRC those were really old from the original TRAILS Gemini and were supposed to be gone for a while with the updated "SM" for Gemini that has them built in.

[DaveyJ576]

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

IIRC those were really old from the original TRAILS Gemini and were supposed to be gone for a while with the updated "SM" for Gemini that has them built in.

I was using them on Gemini B. I had built a version that would fly military missions independent of the MOL, and with only the reentry RCS your options are limited. I can use the Hexagon RCS block instead.

I found out that indeed the Gemini B that was to fly with MOL did not have any OAMS/RCS thrusters in the adapter section, only the reentry RCS near the nose. Apparently, once undocked from the lab reentry was fairly quick, so a lot of maneuverability was not needed and the reentry RCS that Neil Armstrong and Dave Scott so famously used to recover from their wild ride on Gemini 8 was sufficient for the mission.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, DaveyJ576 said:

I was using them on Gemini B. I had built a version that would fly military missions independent of the MOL, and with only the reentry RCS your options are limited. I can use the Hexagon RCS block instead.

I found out that indeed the Gemini B that was to fly with MOL did not have any OAMS/RCS thrusters in the adapter section, only the reentry RCS near the nose. Apparently, once undocked from the lab reentry was fairly quick, so a lot of maneuverability was not needed and the reentry RCS that Neil Armstrong and Dave Scott so famously used to recover from their wild ride on Gemini 8 was sufficient for the mission.

Correct, as conceived, the KH-10 Dorian (Manned Orbital Laboratory,) would be de-orbited just before crew return.  This means the Transtage is a controlling Attitude.

[CollectingSP]

15 hours ago, DaveyJ576 said:

Is that Saturn SLC-37B or the Delta 37B? Would love to have the historic version. Kitbashing it is possible, but I don't have statics to make it look right.

Delta 37B. I could do the Saturn version but parts of mine are also a kitbash. 

[dave1904]

Does the Atlas LV-3C need the extension Tank to be historically accurate or not?

[Zorg]

15 minutes ago, dave1904 said:

Does the Atlas LV-3C need the extension Tank to be historically accurate or not?

It should. This is the build guide based on the measurements I have from Ed Kyle etc.

This can be found in the issues page of the BDB wiki and is the basis for the upcoming wiki and craft file update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKUCvDAlZr2Li7REsgmhNlqYa59Yy76t1sbaCrnTXrI/edit?gid=0#gid=0

 

Edited August 19 by Zorg

[dave1904]

41 minutes ago, Zorg said:

It should. This is the build guide based on the measurements I have from Ed Kyle etc.

This can be found in the issues page of the BDB wiki and is the basis for the upcoming wiki and craft file update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKUCvDAlZr2Li7REsgmhNlqYa59Yy76t1sbaCrnTXrI/edit?gid=0#gid=0

 

Oh thanks. I forgot about that spreadsheet. 

Any chance we can have this part in white? It would also be very nice if there was an Inon and centaur tag on it because it took me ages to find that part originally. 

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, dave1904 said:

Oh thanks. I forgot about that spreadsheet. 

Any chance we can have this part in white? It would also be very nice if there was an Inon and centaur tag on it because it took me ages to find that part originally. 

I really need to figure out what I need to do to change the Centaur Tank into the S-V tank.....(they ARE different)

 

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

It should. This is the build guide based on the measurements I have from Ed Kyle etc.

This can be found in the issues page of the BDB wiki and is the basis for the upcoming wiki and craft file update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKUCvDAlZr2Li7REsgmhNlqYa59Yy76t1sbaCrnTXrI/edit?gid=0#gid=0

 

Big 1960 Atlas F for inclusion

[dave1904]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

really need to figure out what I need to do to change the Centaur Tank into the S-V tank.....(they ARE different)

It seems a bit odd that there is no mention of Centaur in the cfg tags when it's model is obviously an adapter for it. 

[Zorg]

15 hours ago, Pappystein said:

 

 

Big 1960 Atlas F for inclusion

I think the tank length is off in your build? The basic core represents 16.891m of IRL height including the skirt and engines. We need to add an additional 9.373m of IRL height to get to 26.264m at the centaur interstage (per Ed Kyle). The specific scaling factor that brings the Atlas diameter to 1.875m in game is IRL x 0.6152 so we need 9.373x0.6152 = 5.77m of extension tanks.

So an Atlas I extension (3.23m) + 2xSLV-3B extensions (1.17m) gets you pretty close at 5.57m of extension tanks.

I found you can rotate the H2s enough to hide any clipping from the side of the skirt. Just a bit of ugliness at the bottom. And yeah I agree its better to replace the LR105 with an H1D for usability. The skirt separated cleanly for me.

The build spreadsheet is now pretty close to final for this release I think. With most of the viable non historical builds included and all the historical builds except for Burner II in there. And updated Burner II kit that fits inside 1.25m is something I want to do but might not make it into this update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKUCvDAlZr2Li7REsgmhNlqYa59Yy76t1sbaCrnTXrI/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Edited August 20 by Zorg

[GoldForest]

Anybody else find that the J-1A/U doesn't have over 1.0 twr when built via the Google doc?

[Blufor878]

1 hour ago, Zorg said:

I think the tank length is off in your build? The basic core represents 16.891m of IRL height including the skirt and engines. We need to add an additional 9.373m of IRL height to get to 26.264m at the centaur interstage (per Ed Kyle). The specific scaling factor that brings the Atlas diameter to 1.875m in game is IRL x 0.6152 so we need 9.373x0.6152 = 5.77m of extension tanks.

So an Atlas I extension (3.23m) + 2xSLV-3B extensions (1.17m) gets you pretty close at 5.57m of extension tanks.

I found you can rotate the H2s enough to hide any clipping from the side of the skirt. Just a bit of ugliness at the bottom. And yeah I agree its better to replace the LR105 with an H1D for usability. The skirt separated cleanly for me.

The build spreadsheet is now pretty close to final for this release I think. With most of the viable non historical builds included and all the historical builds except for Burner II in there. And updated Burner II kit that fits inside 1.25m is something I want to do but might not make it into this update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKUCvDAlZr2Li7REsgmhNlqYa59Yy76t1sbaCrnTXrI/edit?gid=0#gid=0

It took me a moment to realized that wasn't an actual photo. Do with that what you will.

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

Anybody else find that the J-1A/U doesn't have over 1.0 twr when built via the Google doc?

Keep in mind the IRL J1 specification was 3 tons to LEO and 1 ton to SSO. Your upper stage is probably too big.

I was able to comfortably get 2.7 tons into LEO with 800m/s spare albeit with low but manageable lift off TWR of 1:1.1. This was launching from the cape in KSRSS.

The upper stage was a methalox SOT Agena with 6 of the smaller tanks which kind of loosely represents the construction of the stage. I used a methalox converted RL10. Im not sure if its accurate to the expected performance but I dont have a lot of info on the upper stage engine. Its good enough for me for a loosely defined concept.

Edited August 20 by Zorg

[GoldForest]

4 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Keep in mind the IRL J1 specification was 3 tons to LEO and 1 ton to SSO. Your upper stage is probably too big.

I was able to comfortably get 2.7 tons into LEO with 800m/s spare albeit with low but manageable lift off TWR of 1:1.1. This was launching from the cape in KSRSS.

The upper stage was a methalox SOT Agena with 6 of the smaller tanks which kind of loosely represents the construction of the stage. I used a methalox converted RL10. Im not sure if its accurate but I dont have a lot of info on the upper stage engine but its good enough for me for a loosely defined concept.

I was using Centaur I, so maybe it was a little heavy. I didn't realize the stage was that small. Then again, I was probably assuming that J-1A/U used the same upper stage as Galazy Express, which is basically a methalox Centaur from the looks of it.

Also, that looks like an Agena engine bell in the diagram. 

[Zorg]

9 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

 

Also, that looks like an Agena engine bell in the diagram. 

Its not actually any American engine so you can use whatever that suits the role. I expect it leans on Japanese know how on expander cycle engines so the RL10 seemed a decent rough analogue. I don't think it was pressure fed or gas gen though I could be wrong. Still given the excess 800m/s I expect you could get away with  a much lower performance engine. Either way making sure to use methalox and a small stage and you should be able to get it working.

As mentioned this isnt really an official accurate build because its not fully fleshed out. For me this is good enough.

Edited August 20 by Zorg

[CobaltWolf]

On 8/18/2024 at 3:31 PM, Pappystein said:

Correct, as conceived, the KH-10 Dorian (Manned Orbital Laboratory,) would be de-orbited just before crew return.  This means the Transtage is a controlling Attitude.

The what now?

[Pappystein]

4 hours ago, Zorg said:

I think the tank length is off in your build? The basic core represents 16.891m of IRL height including the skirt and engines. We need to add an additional 9.373m of IRL height to get to 26.264m at the centaur interstage (per Ed Kyle). The specific scaling factor that brings the Atlas diameter to 1.875m in game is IRL x 0.6152 so we need 9.373x0.6152 = 5.77m of extension tanks.

So an Atlas I extension (3.23m) + 2xSLV-3B extensions (1.17m) gets you pretty close at 5.57m of extension tanks.

I found you can rotate the H2s enough to hide any clipping from the side of the skirt. Just a bit of ugliness at the bottom. And yeah I agree its better to replace the LR105 with an H1D for usability. The skirt separated cleanly for me.

The build spreadsheet is now pretty close to final for this release I think. With most of the viable non historical builds included and all the historical builds except for Burner II in there. And updated Burner II kit that fits inside 1.25m is something I want to do but might not make it into this update.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKUCvDAlZr2Li7REsgmhNlqYa59Yy76t1sbaCrnTXrI/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Doh!  I forgot SCALE FACTOR!   

I feel Sheepish... (insert Genie Sheepish Gif from animated Aladdin movie.) 

[GoldForest]

Any word on that PBR mod? Is it still SoonTM or is it out and I'm just missing its thread? 

[Zorg]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

Any word on that PBR mod? Is it still SoonTM or is it out and I'm just missing its thread? 

The shader pack mod will drop as soon as Shabby is updated to support it. Trust me you will all be informed here when its available.

In the meantime...

[LoadingTimeExpert]

I'm using the KSRSS mod which is 2.5x scale real solar system mod, but I've been having a lot of difficulties. It seems impossible for me to get the Mercury-Atlas and Gemini into orbit. I use proper ascent profiles(as best as I can manage) and I'm using the Atlas stage-and-a-half system to the best of my ability(I drop the skirt at around 3g or with about 40 seconds of fuel remaining) but I'm always left nearly 500 m/s short of orbit. With Gemini, I may not be using the optimal flight profile, but if I go any flatter on ascent I start flipping out of control. Anyone have experience with KSRSS or 2.5?