[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Anders Kerman]

4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

No, but that's a good idea... @Jso what do you think? Would squeak a little more performance out of it...

I personally would recommend NASAs J-2 engine fact sheet

[Gapone]

4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yes.

?

I mean, "rentry capsule".

There is a typo.

It should be "reentry capsule".

Two "e".

[CobaltWolf]

20 minutes ago, Anders Kerman said:

I personally would recommend NASAs J-2 engine fact sheet

I read that and saw that they mentioned having variable thrust, but I didn't see numbers for ISP. Wasn't that the reason for having it adjustable in flight?

EDIT:

20 minutes ago, Gapone said:

?

I mean, "rentry capsule".

There is a typo.

It should be "reentry capsule".

Two "e".

Oh, thanks! Fixed.

On 2/4/2019 at 8:12 AM, DriftNasty said:

The Leo(Gemini) parachute RealChute compatibility config has the wrong name. It needs to be bluedog_Gemini_Parachute_A in the first line, for the Real Chute to work.

Also fixed

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[DriftNasty]

Awesome!

I love the Burner 2 kit(MSPB-II) upper stage kit, I plugged in a Staara-37(Star-37) motor in the base. Then I tried to sneak in a decoupler to gain some extra d-v by discarding the Star-37, but it just wobbled in there like a loose tooth and I I couldn't shed the dead mass. 

It works great to power my Ranger probe with some Mercury parts(Heatshield and Parachute pack) to the Mun and back for re-entry and recovery. I even got one out to Minmus with it. I started using a 2.5 scaled system with the atmosphere out to 85k.

It's like a whole new game!

[CobaltWolf]

20 minutes ago, DriftNasty said:

Awesome!

I love the Burner 2 kit(MSPB-II) upper stage kit, I plugged in a Staara-37(Star-37) motor in the base. Then I tried to sneak in a decoupler to gain some extra d-v by discarding the Star-37, but it just wobbled in there like a loose tooth and I I couldn't shed the dead mass. 

It works great to power my Ranger probe with some Mercury parts(Heatshield and Parachute pack) to the Mun and back for re-entry and recovery. I even got one out to Minmus with it. I started using a 2.5 scaled system with the atmosphere out to 85k.

It's like a whole new game!

Awesome! Glad you're enjoying it, and it's cool to know those parts are being used - I wasn't sure how much interest there actually was. I can't remember exactly what the collider setup for the Burner 2 is, I don't think it's 'solid' but that's no guarantee colliders won't wind up stuck to each other and stuff.

 

EDIT: I didn't think this would happen so quick, but @Well's awesome new Diamant is already released! Wow! With that, I'm officially removing the Diamant parts from BDB in the next update. The tech tree will probably get a little reshuffled as well if we can, to make the early progression better.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[Anders Kerman]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I read that and saw that they mentioned having variable thrust, but I didn't see numbers for ISP. Wasn't that the reason for having it adjustable in flight?

On the first page it reads 424s (427 at 5:1 mixture ratio)

The PU valve runs from 4.5:1 to 5.5:1 I'm sure the Isp could be calculated, but I dont know how this would be implemented in game...

Also: Wasn't what the reason for having the thrust adjustable in flight?

Edit: the adjustable mixture was to drain the tanks simultaneously

Here is an acceleration graph for the saturn v. EMR shift is engine mixture ration shift lowering the thrust.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Anders Kerman
Figured out the question

[CobaltWolf]

6 minutes ago, Anders Kerman said:

On the first page it reads 424s (427 at 5:1 mixture ratio)

The PU valve runs from 4.5:1 to 5.5:1 I'm sure the Isp could be calculated, but I dont know how this would be implemented in game...

Also: Wasn't what the reason for having the thrust adjustable in flight?

Ah, missed that. I was looking for something further down in the copy.

I meant, wasn't being able to change the mixture ratio to get more efficiency later in the burn, when TWR wasn't as much a concern, the entire reason for having it adjustable in flight?

[DriftNasty]

34 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Awesome! Glad you're enjoying it, and it's cool to know those parts are being used - I wasn't sure how much interest there actually was. I can't remember exactly what the collider setup for the Burner 2 is, I don't think it's 'solid' but that's no guarantee colliders won't wind up stuck to each other and stuff.

The Star-37 seems to be a bit fatter than the barrel of the Burner 2, after decoupling the spent motor it gets about 1/3rd of the way out and just lingers. It would be cool to discard it but it probably stayed put in real life. 

I forgot to add I used an Atlas-Vega with a double Vega tank as the launcher. For the Minmus trip, I used the Castor-4 boosters for some more d-v. I haven't unlocked the Centaur roll control so I staged the LR-101 to fire after booster skirt separation, a Kerbalesque approach to solving a problem. It is really well designed that everything fits and works so well while looking amazing.  

[Anders Kerman]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I read that and saw that they mentioned having variable thrust, but I didn't see numbers for ISP. Wasn't that the reason for having it adjustable in flight?

Ran the math...

432/s 1000kn 5.5:1

427/s 930kn 5:1

424/s 778kn 4.5:1

That should be all you need for ksp right?

And I know that engines can only have 2 modes, so I would suggest suggest 5.5:1 and 5:1

With drain the Tanks simultaneously I mean the oxygen vs hydrogen tanks

[DriftNasty]

The Agena Docking Port bottom node is magenta/pink and not textured. My apologies if this is intentional.

Edited February 5, 2019 by DriftNasty

[MaverickSawyer]

Cobalt, any chance you could keep the probe core from the Diamante set? It's a fantastically useful little relay in early game.

[Jso]

6 hours ago, Anders Kerman said:

Just wondering, does the J-2 have a mode for switching the fuel mixture like it did in real life?

 

5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

No, but that's a good idea... @Jso what do you think? Would squeak a little more performance out of it...

Edit: I think it works with stock (non-RO).

Edited February 5, 2019 by Jso

[Pappystein]

So I am trying to understand here, in KSP what is the big deal with Ratio changing?    Is this to counter Boil-off and more completely empty the tanks?

My concern is because there are different Boiloff profiles that can not be easily tracked/adjusted for, how would a player or the game alter that?

 

 

 

 

[DriftNasty]

On 10/25/2018 at 11:06 AM, CobaltWolf said:

Oh, a slightly unfortunate topic of discussion - I remembered more stuff that has to be finished for the update.

Does anyone have feelings on the design of the small radial decoupler and the Perfectron/Retrotron/Lateraltron separation SRBs? They lived on old texture sheets that have since been replaced. I like the model for the small radial decoupler, will probably redo the little motors but they are simple.

Also, if anyone has designs for a medium (0.9375m to 1.5m) radial decoupler and a large (for thing like Saturn Multibody) radial decoupler, please let me know (heck, post drawings if you like!). Those have been on my list for a while and if I can just make them share a texture sheet that'd be great. I'm trying to move to having things like that live in a sort of 'Generic' folder so they are prune-resistant / not tied into random part families; if I ever get around to doing the Thor/Redstone/Vanguard (those all share texture sheets) I would similarly move the decouplers, fairing bases, etc to a generic format. The only reason I have to redo the small radial decoupler at all is it lived on the old Scout texture sheet... anyways, I don't want these decouplers to be size locked the same way the Titan decoupler is.

I have been using the Castor 4 with the small decoupler on the Atlas. Can you make a Lateraltron similar to the Titan IIIC separation motors for the skirt, where the thrust is linear from the mounting for the small boosters? The way the decoupler is set on the staged fairing puts in low on the booster and sometimes the AOA is less than ideal and there have been some banging after separation.

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, DriftNasty said:

I have been using the Castor 4 with the small decoupler on the Atlas. Can you make a Lateraltron similar to the Titan IIIC separation motors for the skirt, where the thrust is linear from the mounting for the small boosters? The way the decoupler is set on the staged fairing puts in low on the booster and sometimes the AOA is less than ideal and there have been some banging after separation.

Actually the little Tiny Red Mercury Retro motor (you put 4 of them on the De-orbit motor to power separation from Redstone/Atlas) works perfectly already for everything upto GEM-46.  GEM/AJ60+ need 2 of em (one at the decoupler and a second 5 degrees OFFCENTER at the nose.   If you center the nose one you still get collisions.   Since I use StagedRecovery/FRMS/Recoverycontroler I need them not to crash into each other.   1 or Both motors point at the main stage you are separating from.

I have not tried these with the Agols!

 

 

 

[Cheesecake]

@CobaltWolfI´m rebuilding all of the Atlas-series in my game. I wonder if you have plans to build some more parts:

- Star-17
- Star-26
- Star-27
- X-248 solid upper stage
- MSD (Multiple Satellite Dispenser) + FW-4D solid upper stage
- side-mounted attachement for solid upper stages like Atlas OV-1 and OV-3
- shorter (2/3) conicle Tank for Atlas E/F with 1,875m to 1,5m
- shorter conicle (1/2) Tank for Atlas-H with 1,875m to 1,5m
- texture-change for the Centaur-interstage (white/grey), suitable to the white/orange centaur-tank for later Atlas I and II.
- also: revamped Castor-1 with conic nosecone for Delta
- Castor-2

I know, this are a lot of things. Do not get it wrong. It`s only a question or suggestion.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Cheesecake

[blowfish]

24 minutes ago, Cheesecake said:

- X-248 solid upper stage

Isn't this equivalent to the Altair which already exists?

[Cheesecake]

4 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Isn't this equivalent to the Altair which already exists?

Yes, you are right. Altair 3A, X-248 and Star-20 are the same with different names. Sorry.

[Anders Kerman]

11 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So I am trying to understand here, in KSP what is the big deal with Ratio changing?    Is this to counter Boil-off and more completely empty the tanks?

My concern is because there are different Boiloff profiles that can not be easily tracked/adjusted for, how would a player or the game alter that?

 

 

 

 

Realism I guess, like why not

 

14 hours ago, Jso said:

 

Edit: I think it works with stock (non-RO).

Nice but it would use modules right so you could make an mm patch

[MonanMuller]

I was fascinated by your work, hope you can keep on with that. However, I want to say that when I use mechjeb to launch the Hokulani Skylab after it reached to target altitude and the autopilot went off and I try to activate the SAS, then message "has no operational sas module" appeared what happened to the skylab since I assemble it according to the manual.

[GoldForest]

21 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

GX was essentially an Atlas V 400 with a slightly different upper stage, its' performance would've been very similar to the Atlas.

It says on the GX engine page that the upper stage would actually be better than centaur for a few reasons, one being that liquid gas is denser than hydrogen or any other rocket fuel, therefore more fuel can be added to the same tank. It also evaporates less, meaning that it can spend longer times in space. 

[golkaidakhaana]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

It says on the GX engine page that the upper stage would actually be better than centaur for a few reasons, one being that liquid gas is denser than hydrogen or any other rocket fuel, therefore more fuel can be added to the same tank. It also evaporates less, meaning that it can spend longer times in space. 

True, but the GX could only deliver 3.6t to LEO, whereas an Atlas V 401 can deliver 8.25t to LEO. The upper stage may be improved over Centaur in these areas, but it significantly reduced the payload capacity of the launch vehicle.

Edited February 6, 2019 by golkaidakhaana

[CobaltWolf]

On 2/5/2019 at 11:49 AM, DriftNasty said:

The Star-37 seems to be a bit fatter than the barrel of the Burner 2, after decoupling the spent motor it gets about 1/3rd of the way out and just lingers. It would be cool to discard it but it probably stayed put in real life. 

I forgot to add I used an Atlas-Vega with a double Vega tank as the launcher. For the Minmus trip, I used the Castor-4 boosters for some more d-v. I haven't unlocked the Centaur roll control so I staged the LR-101 to fire after booster skirt separation, a Kerbalesque approach to solving a problem. It is really well designed that everything fits and works so well while looking amazing.  

Yeah, it didn't separate in real life.

 

23 hours ago, DriftNasty said:

The Agena Docking Port bottom node is magenta/pink and not textured. My apologies if this is intentional.

Shoot, thought I fixed that.

 

21 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Cobalt, any chance you could keep the probe core from the Diamante set? It's a fantastically useful little relay in early game.

I'm sure we could find something or other to replace it.

 

On 2/5/2019 at 12:01 PM, Anders Kerman said:

Ran the math...

432/s 1000kn 5.5:1

427/s 930kn 5:1

424/s 778kn 4.5:1

That should be all you need for ksp right?

And I know that engines can only have 2 modes, so I would suggest suggest 5.5:1 and 5:1

With drain the Tanks simultaneously I mean the oxygen vs hydrogen tanks

21 hours ago, Jso said:

Edit: I think it works with stock (non-RO).

18 hours ago, Pappystein said:

So I am trying to understand here, in KSP what is the big deal with Ratio changing?    Is this to counter Boil-off and more completely empty the tanks?

My concern is because there are different Boiloff profiles that can not be easily tracked/adjusted for, how would a player or the game alter that?

6 hours ago, Anders Kerman said:

Realism I guess, like why not

Nice but it would use modules right so you could make an mm patch

So, uh, this has all been a big misunderstanding. I was under the impression that it would simply be represented in game as a higher thrust / lower ISP and vice versa.

 

17 hours ago, DriftNasty said:

I have been using the Castor 4 with the small decoupler on the Atlas. Can you make a Lateraltron similar to the Titan IIIC separation motors for the skirt, where the thrust is linear from the mounting for the small boosters? The way the decoupler is set on the staged fairing puts in low on the booster and sometimes the AOA is less than ideal and there have been some banging after separation.

15 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Actually the little Tiny Red Mercury Retro motor (you put 4 of them on the De-orbit motor to power separation from Redstone/Atlas) works perfectly already for everything upto GEM-46.  GEM/AJ60+ need 2 of em (one at the decoupler and a second 5 degrees OFFCENTER at the nose.   If you center the nose one you still get collisions.   Since I use StagedRecovery/FRMS/Recoverycontroler I need them not to crash into each other.   1 or Both motors point at the main stage you are separating from.

I have not tried these with the Agols!

There is already a Titan separation motor in the mod.

 

9 hours ago, Cheesecake said:

@CobaltWolfI´m rebuilding all of the Atlas-series in my game. I wonder if you have plans to build some more parts:

- Star-17
- Star-26
- Star-27
- X-248 solid upper stage
- MSD (Multiple Satellite Dispenser) + FW-4D solid upper stage
- side-mounted attachement for solid upper stages like Atlas OV-1 and OV-3
- shorter (2/3) conicle Tank for Atlas E/F with 1,875m to 1,5m
- shorter conicle (1/2) Tank for Atlas-H with 1,875m to 1,5m
- texture-change for the Centaur-interstage (white/grey), suitable to the white/orange centaur-tank for later Atlas I and II.
- also: revamped Castor-1 with conic nosecone for Delta
- Castor-2

I know, this are a lot of things. Do not get it wrong. It`s only a question or suggestion.

Not planning on doing more tiny solids, more adapters are necessary, I might redo Centaur at some point so I'll take care of the interstage then, I want to redo the Castor-1

6 hours ago, MonanMuller said:

I was fascinated by your work, hope you can keep on with that. However, I want to say that when I use mechjeb to launch the Hokulani Skylab after it reached to target altitude and the autopilot went off and I try to activate the SAS, then message "has no operational sas module" appeared what happened to the skylab since I assemble it according to the manual.

Did you add the S-IVB Instrument Unit on top of the main workshop?

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

So, uh, this has all been a big misunderstanding. I was under the impression that

????

 

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

There is already a Titan separation motor in the mod.

He was specifically looking for something LIKE the Titan Sep motor but much smaller for the GEM and Castor <=0.625m rockets.  That was why I pointed out the Mercury Retro motor as a GREAT alternative already done and works great!

[CobaltWolf]

13 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

????

 

He was specifically looking for something LIKE the Titan Sep motor but much smaller for the GEM and Castor <=0.625m rockets.  That was why I pointed out the Mercury Retro motor as a GREAT alternative already done and works great!

Oops, didn't finish. My girlfriend passed on a stomach bug or flu or something, so that post was written over the course of like 4 hours with me alternately passing out and running to the bathroom.