[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[dave1904]

1 minute ago, Dragon01 said:

@benjee10 made some Delta IV parts, but I think he was unable to pursue the project. Assuming he won't decide to get back to it now that the epidemic shook everything up, he might share the models with @CobaltWolf.

They are two totally different mods with different scales and artistic styles. 

[Guest]

Not so much. Scales are very much compatible (you can use BDB IUS with SOCK, if you can figure the mounting out) and styles are remarkably close, though @benjee10's older parts could, perhaps, use a bit of a touch-up. They go together pretty well.

[Hay]

In the past @CobaltWolf has said he is never going to make the Delta IV though

[Leszek]

So I just downloaded the latest version from spacedock and started a new career.  I am ready to orbit with Mercury Atlas and find the parts don't match up.

I have checked the Wiki:

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/wiki/Atlas

for clues but it doesn't seem to have any.  I went back through this thread to page 624 and didn't find anything. (Though it is a lot of content and I may have just not seen it.)  I searched Bossart and Hermes to see all the related parts but there isn't anything obvious.  Now I am sure this has come up before and probably I am just being an idiot, so please have mercy.  How do I build a Mercury Atlas now?

Edit: Specifically the Mercury capsule doesn't line up withe Atlas.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Leszek
Clarification

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Hay said:

In the past @CobaltWolf has said he is never going to make the Delta IV though

That's why I'm suggesting he should steal borrow it from @benjee10.  

[Hay]

17 minutes ago, Leszek said:

So I just downloaded the latest version from spacedock and started a new career.  I am ready to orbit with Mercury Atlas and find the parts don't match up.

I have checked the Wiki:

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/wiki/Atlas

for clues but it doesn't seem to have any.  I went back through this thread to page 624 and didn't find anything. (Though it is a lot of content and I may have just not seen it.)  I searched Bossart and Hermes to see all the related parts but there isn't anything obvious.  Now I am sure this has come up before and probably I am just being an idiot, so please have mercy.  How do I build a Mercury Atlas now?

Edit: Specifically the Mercury capsule doesn't line up withe Atlas.

To attach the Mercury capsule to the Atlas you use a new interstage. It should come up when you search for "mercury" . It's called the Hermes-Muo 1.25m Interstage.

[Leszek]

8 minutes ago, Hay said:

To attach the Mercury capsule to the Atlas you use a new interstage. It should come up when you search for "mercury" . It's called the Hermes-Muo 1.25m Interstage.

Thanks very much.  I seem to be missing this part.  If I search for either Hermes or Mercury I get the same parts but no interstage.  Maybee I should download BDB from Github?  Is it possible the spacedock version doesn't have the part?

It is also possible I just don't have the tech researched but I can't find it in the tech tree either.

Both Github and Spacedock show the version is 1.6.2.  That is what I have.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Leszek
Version information.

[Hay]

8 minutes ago, Leszek said:

Thanks very much.  I seem to be missing this part.  If I search for either Hermes or Mercury I get the same parts but no interstage.  Maybee I should download BDB from Github?  Is it possible the spacedock version doesn't have the part?

It is also possible I just don't have the tech researched but I can't find it in the tech tree either.

The interstage part, along with some other stuff hasn't been added to the 1.6.2 version yet, both on Github and Spacedock. To get it you have to use the development version from GitHub.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Hay

[Leszek]

3 minutes ago, Hay said:

The interstage part, along with some other stuff hasn't been added to the Release version yet, both on Github and Spacedock. To get it you have to use the development version from GitHub.

Danke

[Cdodders]

How do you make the fairings split so one half stays on the base and the other half splits and jettisons? I am playing around with the Agena structural support skirts too, is the skirt meant to stay with the agena after staging?

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Cdodders

[MashAndBangers]

8 minutes ago, Cdodders said:

How do you make the fairings split so one half stays on the base and the other half splits and jettisons?

You can only do that if each fairing was a separate part, which isn't in BDB.

[Friznit]

1 hour ago, Leszek said:

So I just downloaded the latest version from spacedock and started a new career.  I am ready to orbit with Mercury Atlas and find the parts don't match up.

I have checked the Wiki:

https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/wiki/Atlas

for clues but it doesn't seem to have any.  I went back through this thread to page 624 and didn't find anything. (Though it is a lot of content and I may have just not seen it.)  I searched Bossart and Hermes to see all the related parts but there isn't anything obvious.  Now I am sure this has come up before and probably I am just being an idiot, so please have mercy.  How do I build a Mercury Atlas now?

Edit: Specifically the Mercury capsule doesn't line up withe Atlas.

The wiki on BDB github is pretty out of date.  Check the "unofficial" one (linked in the op and in my sig block) for more up to date guides.  Note that anything related to Dev branch stuff will be listed in the Issues tab until it's released.

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Uhm. If nothing else I thing those parts predate me trying to get that kind of granularity. Centaur is planned for a revamp this update (though the Common Centaur's only change will likely be the engines) so there'll be time to check it out

 

Also, wanted to just share - I'm planning on doing a dev stream on Sunday! Hopefully give y'all a nice place to hang out since we're all stuck inside. Going to be working on the Gemini parts which are quite a long way from being finished, but we'll see what progress we can make.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!   I work on Sunday!   Here is hoping it is a short work day!

 

2 hours ago, Friznit said:

That's all BDB Titan LDC parts except the engine which is the ReStock Skipper, slightly tweakscaled to fit (I would use CryoEngines Etna but I've not unlocked it in this career yet).  Zorg did an alternative build using mostly restock tanks which I stuck on the wiki here

I would use SSTUs RS-68... But Shadowmage chose to stay with the original and expanded sizes for Stock so no 3.125m size Delta IV engine fairing (it isn't a boat tail with that shape!)   /sad panda.    Ach so!   I do love Zorg's build with the LDC parts and have flown it for my obligatory SINGLE Delta IV launch.   I would much rather use Titan than Delta IV anyway... well except for the Exhaust Gasses issue.

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

It's because McDonnell Douglas were the contractor for the Titan fairings so it was already their own in house design, just needed the boattail.

While completely true, IIRC the Composite fairing was cheaper (didn't Alenia Aerospace or Aeritalia for correct name at the time, out of Italy make it?)   IIRC it was part of Government to Government Sales offsets between US and Italy (thus making it essentially FREE as the US Govt had to buy them weather they flew or not) 

Most military sales have some sort of "If we buy this from you, you yourself have to spend x Funds as a percentage of the sale in OUR COUNTRY to OUR businesses!)   It is the reason that MTU in Germany made J79 Jet engines for the F-104 Starfighter and then the F-4 Phantom ][.   Why some of the exported F-104s were actually made from parts from all over the world.   Of course this is a LARGE reason for the exorbitant cost in Military items today.   This excludes a lot of things in Japan (where all military purchases must be "Made by" a Japanese company although that law seems to be softening due to technology transfer laws in other countries.)  

Ok enough of a diatribe on the dirty world of Government to Government contracts and the ...*REDACTED REMAINDER OF SENTENCE*

 

So, I have made 4 attempts now to launch my Saturn A-1 build.   I know Friznit, has a picture of one of these made in KSP to the origonal design:    How about this Titan III (AJ-9 powered) Derivitive:

Or for those of you Blinded by the Light (Great song BTW):

Yes that is a Full up Titan III with the optional extras AJ-9 engines on board using a Titan IV Fairing.   ONTOP of a Saturn S-I-INT-14 Tankage (also from the Extras Folder)

Powered by 4 AWESOME E-1 Engines!  (Thanks again for those monsters CobaltWolf!!)     The only issue is I was missing one of the two Saturn I Fins (I did not spend an exorbitant amount of time looking for it so don't consider this a bug report...

Ok that isn't the only Issue.   Mechjeb keeps killing the LR87-AJ-9 Stage( aka the 2nd stage) upon staging.  I am still playing with this build and all my failures are after Stage one Separation.   I end up with a transmogrified Rocket that goes nowhere!

Good news is I think I know WHY the problems...  Bad news, I don't know if I can find a solution (Different engine plate as I am using 2x LR87-AJ-9 VACUUM engines instead of a normal Twin on the bottom of the Titan III 1st stage (stage 2 in this rocket)

Spoiler

 

No pictures of my transmogrified explosion (I only take GOOD pictures!)   Will be playing with this more tomorrow.

[Jso]

2 hours ago, Leszek said:

Specifically the Mercury capsule doesn't line up withe Atlas.

Do you mean the Atlas tapered tank is narrower than Mercury? There's an option on the part context menu  to change the top size between 0.9375 and 1.25. You want 1.25. This is true for the 1.62 release you got from Spacedock (the current stable version) and the development files on Github (not even a little stable).

 

[Leszek]

3 minutes ago, Jso said:

Do you mean the Atlas tapered tank is narrower than Mercury? There's an option on the part context menu  to change the top size between 0.9375 and 1.25. You want 1.25. This is true for the 1.62 release you got from Spacedock (the current stable version) and the development files on Github (not even a little stable).

 

Danke

[Zorg]

7 hours ago, dave1904 said:

The problem with the Etha is that its turbo pump exhaust does not actually produce trust so it cannot roll the delta medium. Its only visual. I am currently using it and was looking for an alternative. Maybe the skipper using LH2 is better. Thanks for tip. Was looking into that last night. Thats why I mentioned the Delta IV now. I did increase the gimbel to 6 and rebalance mass for 2x5 kerbin so at least the Heavy very can be very stable. 

I use redirect tanks and the Etha.

 

Its been a little while since I've tried to do a Delta IV build but the Etna should have roll control. Rather than the BDB style of giving verniers their own engine module, Nertea used transform multipliers to split the main engine module thrust between the main engine and the exhausts. At 0.1% for the exhaust maybe its too low?

https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/CryoEngines/blob/953f8aeaef08b992bc9fe8a5097f5e268c26c644/GameData/CryoEngines/Parts/Engine/375/cryoengine-etna-1.cfg#L194

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Zorg

[dave1904]

20 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Its been a little while since I've tried to do a Delta IV build but the Etna should have roll control. Rather than the BDB style of giving verniers their own engine module, Nertea used transform multipliers to split the main engine module thrust between the main engine and the exhausts. At 0.01% for the exhaust maybe its too low?

https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/CryoEngines/blob/953f8aeaef08b992bc9fe8a5097f5e268c26c644/GameData/CryoEngines/Parts/Engine/375/cryoengine-etna-1.cfg#L194

 

I rebalanced that engine to 2x5 kerbin and doing so lowered the trust all the way down to 1800kn. Had no idea about the multiplier. That would have only made it worse. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by dave1904

[Zorg]

5 hours ago, Cdodders said:

How do you make the fairings split so one half stays on the base and the other half splits and jettisons? I am playing around with the Agena structural support skirts too, is the skirt meant to stay with the agena after staging?

 

Yes the fairing skirt for drop tank agena stays with it.

If for some reason you want one half of the fairing to stay (for a reentry aeroshell or something?) you can do this using Procedural Fairings. Attach the fairing sides without symmetry for staging or deploy the side you want to individually using the part action window.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Zorg

[dave1904]

11 hours ago, Zorg said:

Its been a little while since I've tried to do a Delta IV build but the Etna should have roll control. Rather than the BDB style of giving verniers their own engine module, Nertea used transform multipliers to split the main engine module thrust between the main engine and the exhausts. At 0.1% for the exhaust maybe its too low?

https://github.com/ChrisAdderley/CryoEngines/blob/953f8aeaef08b992bc9fe8a5097f5e268c26c644/GameData/CryoEngines/Parts/Engine/375/cryoengine-etna-1.cfg#L194

 

I actually have a nice balance I think. BTW it was 0.01% of the trust. That being said you know why there are there 3 kinds of transformmultiplyers? 2 are all that would be necessary right? I'm going to mention this in the cyroengines thread because it might be an oversight or maybe intentionally to remove it. 

        transformMultipliers
        {
            trf0 = 0.9
            trf1 = 0.05
            trf2 = 0.05
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleGimbal
        gimbalTransformName = B_EtnaGimbal
        gimbalResponseSpeed = 2
        gimbalRange = 6.0
    }

[Zorg]

1 minute ago, dave1904 said:

I actually have a nice balance I think. BTW it was 0.01% of the trust. That being said you know why there are there 3 kinds of transformmultiplyers? 2 are all that would be necessary right? I'm going to mention this in the cyroengines thread because it might be an oversight or maybe intentionally to remove it. 

        transformMultipliers
        {
            trf0 = 0.9
            trf1 = 0.05
            trf2 = 0.05
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleGimbal
        gimbalTransformName = B_EtnaGimbal
        gimbalResponseSpeed = 2
        gimbalRange = 6.0
    }

Not 100% sure but I'm guessing that there are two vernier thrust transforms but only 1 has an fx transform for plumes. That way the vernier won't introduce unwanted torque since the thrust is symmetrical but visually you only see the one. Its a little cheat that BDB uses for engines like the Titan LR91 as well.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Zorg

[CobaltWolf]

Just now, dave1904 said:

of course. makes alot of sense. cheers. 

lot easier than whatever wizardry they use to balance it IRL

[dave1904]

2 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Not 100% sure but I'm guessing that there are two vernier thrust transforms but only 1 has an fx transform for plumes. That way the vernier won't introduce unwanted torque since the thrust is symmetrical but visually you only see the one. Its a little cheat that BDB uses for engines like the Titan LR91 as well.

of course. makes alot of sense. cheers. 

[dave1904]

9 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

lot easier than whatever wizardry they use to balance it IRL

What amazes me most however is that they pretty much figured it all out by the 70s. .

Edit: @CobaltWolf how did you reply before I even said it.  

Edited March 28, 2020 by dave1904

[Pappystein]

6 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Not 100% sure but I'm guessing that there are two vernier thrust transforms but only 1 has an fx transform for plumes. That way the vernier won't introduce unwanted torque since the thrust is symmetrical but visually you only see the one. Its a little cheat that BDB uses for engines like the Titan LR91 as well.

Yeah, if you spin a 1 Vernier LR91 engine on a Titan II/III/IV Second stage after a bit of time the tails rotational circle is actually bigger than the nose of the rocket (assuming you do not have RCS/Gyroscopes running and the engine is the only thing giving you roll control.     The Quad Vernier is much more precise if you are doing some "agressive maneuvering"

 

Besides, on the RS-68 IRL, Aren't there TWO secondary exhaust plumes?   

[Zorg]

Just now, Pappystein said:

Yeah, if you spin a 1 Vernier LR91 engine on a Titan II/III/IV Second stage after a bit of time the tails rotational circle is actually bigger than the nose of the rocket (assuming you do not have RCS/Gyroscopes running and the engine is the only thing giving you roll control.     The Quad Vernier is much more precise if you are doing some "agressive maneuvering"

 

Besides, on the RS-68 IRL, Aren't there TWO secondary exhaust plumes?   

One primary exhaust with roll control and the other is marked as a "heat exchanger"

9 minutes ago, dave1904 said:

 

Edit: @CobaltWolf how did you reply before I even said it.  

That's the kind of quality user support you get with BDB