Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey-CHAPTER 22 pg 2: Yet >another< narrative device!

[Angelo Kerman]

Honestly I the the name of the ship is the KSS [REDACTED].  And I can imagine Bill and Bob working on the fertilizer maker:

Bill: ok, done. Sample generated. Your turn to collect the mulch, Bob.

Bob: Awwww kerb!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Angel-125

[loch.ness]

On USI life-support:

5 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

 

As it stands with basic shipboard USI-LS, it is impossible to make an indefinite, closed loop system. The missing link is fertilizer, which can only be made on Kerbin. But if you can make rocket fuel and oxidant from ore, I think you can certainly make ammonium nitrate from ore and ''mulch". So I reserve the right to mod an ISRU or the Mobile Processing Lab to convert ore+mulch into fertilizer and allow a closed loop system.

MKS by the same author (and MKS Lite which I'm currently trying out) provide ways to make Fertalizer from dirt/soil on the surface of a planet or moon.  There is still no way to make ship-board fertalizer but if you are planning on landing the monster for mining anyway a few of the MKS-Lite inflatable habs could be in order.  Similarly you might be able to load them into the Laythe lander KIS style and have it bring back food-stuffs grown on Laythe if you prefer realism.

 

All this said - I think Bill working out how to make Hyrdazine themed snacks is fully in keeping with the spirit of Kerbfleet.

[Mister Dilsby]

Big day today! Well, almost...

...so yeah, this is why we simulate.  Anyway, am happy to report that later on I removed the obstruction, re-launched and made a successful L-dock! This means that I can fill up the forward B pod with the engineering section, stash probes and small landers elsewhere in the hangar deck (L and R pods) and still have room to get the Skimmeroo in and out. That's a big relief--I wanted to make this a true carrier ship with several craft inside the hangar, rather than just the one plane, and it looks like that's indeed possible!

Regarding the space doors: yeah, if there's anyone who can give me advice on how to toggle those more easily I'd love to hear it. I see two possibilities: One is to somehow tie the %open variable to a procedure that can be assigned to action groups. The other, possibly more elegant way to do it would be to redefine "closed" for those parts to be 50% open rather than 100% open. Then I could just activate them with the normal open and close functions. But it's really not a big deal to move the doors by hand if it comes down to it.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Kuzzter

[RA3236]

And replied within two seconds, it's cool to see that designing a ship could be a centre part of interludes and other stuff  

[Starhawk]

"Unholy cluster of bays you call a hangar." - Great one!

Poor Bob,  Nobody ever listens, even though he's right.  At least he won the five kerbucks.

I hope there aren't any inexplicable detachments when the Kerbulans are around.  That could be very bad.

Happy Concerned landings!

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Starhawk said:

"Unholy cluster of bays you call a hangar." - Great one!

Poor Bob,  Nobody ever listens, even though he's right.  At least he won the five kerbucks.

I hope there aren't any inexplicable detachments when the Kerbulans are around.  That could be very bad.

Happy Concerned landings!

No, it's "Happy Concerned Kind of scared landings!"

[Geschosskopf]

On 1/28/2016 at 2:33 PM, Kuzzter said:

As it stands with basic shipboard USI-LS, it is impossible to make an indefinite, closed loop system. The missing link is fertilizer, which can only be made on Kerbin. But if you can make rocket fuel and oxidant from ore, I think you can certainly make ammonium nitrate from ore and ''mulch". So I reserve the right to mod an ISRU or the Mobile Processing Lab to convert ore+mulch into fertilizer and allow a closed loop system. Ooh, it'll give Bill and Bob something to work on together! And maybe everyone can take turns cooking for the crew. I hear Melbe makes a great fried simulated kittehkatfish.  

Which is why I use MKS-Lite from the author of USI-LS.  1 inflatable Hab runs a recycler that turns Mulch into Fertilizer.  This goes into a an inflatable Ag module that converts Fertilizer + Dirt into Organics.  Then the other converter on the Hap converts Organics back into Supplies.  The missing piece is, of course, Dirt, but MKS-Lite has a thing that digs both Ore and Dirt (pretty much always found in the same place).  And to power the operation of all this, MKS-L also has an Ore-fired generator.  So you get a sustainable ecosystem that way, with several caveats.

1. it needs a constant input of Electric Charge, which comes from the Ore-fired generator, which means it needs a constant supply of Ore from the digging unit.
2. It needs a constant supply of Dirt, which also comes from the included digging unit, so this only works dirrtside, not in space.
3. Each such system needs the full-time attention of a Scientist
4. The only time you get zero net consumption of Supplies is if you only have <= 2 Kerbals inside the base.  > 2 Kerbals means Supplies will eventually run dry.

Come to think of it, this sucks.  So next time I'll try the Pathfinder thing.  But for the nonce, what I'm doing for my Sarnus project is using Deepfreeze Extended to handle the trip there and back (~12 years travel time)  and only putting about a year's worth of food in the troopship to handle those rare occasions when anybody's awake in there.  Then I divide the mission crew into groups of 3, each of which includes a Scientist to keep the dirtside life support systems running for each team's mission.  With USI-LS, Kerbals never go on strike while on EVA, and all the other vehicles have lots of Supplies, way more than needed for the mission's duration.  So everything gets to Sarnus, I wake up 1 team at a time, they go get set up on some moon and can then take care of themselves, then do the next crew.  Eventually, everybody returns to the troopship and goes back to sleep for the ride home.

[ExplorerKlatt]

@Geschosskopf I guess you haven't updated USI-LS yet then. Kerbals now have an EVA timer. If it expires your kerbals will magically return to KSC without gaining experience. Also, organics were removed as a resource. 

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, ExplorerKlatt said:

@Geschosskopf I guess you haven't updated USI-LS yet then. Kerbals now have an EVA timer. If it expires your kerbals will magically return to KSC without gaining experience. Also, organics were removed as a resource. 

Hmmm, can't say I like either of those changes, so I'll be keeping what I've got until the smoke clears from the impending Supernova of '110, then see what's available.  And if nothing suits me, I'll go back to no life support because really, it's unnecessary if you roleplay like you're including it.

[ExplorerKlatt]

27 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Hmmm, can't say I like either of those changes, so I'll be keeping what I've got until the smoke clears from the impending Supernova of '110, then see what's available.  And if nothing suits me, I'll go back to no life support because really, it's unnecessary if you roleplay like you're including it.

Nothing you can do about the organics but the EVA timer can be disabled in the settings file included with USI-LS. 

[Mister Dilsby]

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Hmmm, can't say I like either of those changes, so I'll be keeping what I've got until the smoke clears from the impending Supernova of '110, then see what's available.  And if nothing suits me, I'll go back to no life support because really, it's unnecessary if you roleplay like you're including it.

Exactly--I just want something simple, right now I'm much more into the rocket stuff than the interweb of resource stuff. Though yeah, I can see myself building bases all over the place once I finish the grand exploration. That could be lots of fun--have to deal with the whole Kerbulan problem first, but yeah, fun    

[Willbl3pic]

Let's just hope that the Kermulan's ships also inexplicably fall apart.

[UncleBod]

7 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Exactly--I just want something simple, right now I'm much more into the rocket stuff than the interweb of resource stuff. Though yeah, I can see myself building bases all over the place once I finish the grand exploration. That could be lots of fun--have to deal with the whole Kerbulan problem first, but yeah, fun    

I have the feeling that it is the Kerbulans that soon will have a problem to handle....

[loch.ness]

@Kuzzter thought you'd like to hear this:

 

I'm a high school literature teacher (in an ESL environment) and I think one of my students is secretly Kenlie Kerman.

A) He wrote a story about a character named Kensome who was the leader of a great expedition in a special ship using a super experimental warp-drive who has nerves of steel and determination that no one else can find.

B) He worked his own name into a plot central element of the story.

C) He established that only Kensome has the nerve, intelligence, and determination to accomplish the mission while everyone else just stood by and waited for him to save them.

D) the problem, disaster, and solution made equally little sense but would have looked amazing with the right special effects budget.

 

I just felt the need to share that Kenlie appears to be one of my students.

[Scotius]

12 minutes ago, loch.ness said:

@Kuzzter thought you'd like to hear this:

 

I'm a high school literature teacher (in an ESL environment) and I think one of my students is secretly Kenlie Kerman.

A) He wrote a story about a character named Kensome who was the leader of a great expedition in a special ship using a super experimental warp-drive who has nerves of steel and determination that no one else can find.

B) He worked his own name into a plot central element of the story.

C) He established that only Kensome has the nerve, intelligence, and determination to accomplish the mission while everyone else just stood by and waited for him to save them.

D) the problem, disaster, and solution made equally little sense but would have looked amazing with the right special effects budget.

 

I just felt the need to share that Kenlie appears to be one of my students.

And that is the very definite description of a Marty Stu It lacks only mention of a perfect wavy hair, pearly white smile and females\males of all ages throwing themselves at aforementioned individual with abandon

[Mister Dilsby]

28 minutes ago, loch.ness said:

I'm a high school literature teacher (in an ESL environment) and I think one of my students is secretly Kenlie Kerman.

That's awesum! Do you think he's read the comic, or is he a natural Kenlie? The 'Ken' in the name, plus elements like the ship and warp drive make me suspect it. Otherwise yeah, classic adolescent MartyStu story  Here's hoping he's not communicating with 'dark forces'!

 

[Sanic]

5 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

That's awesum! Do you think he's read the comic, or is he a natural Kenlie? The 'Ken' in the name, plus elements like the ship and warp drive make me suspect it. Otherwise yeah, classic adolescent MartyStu story  Here's hoping he's not communicating with 'dark forces'!

*tinfoil engaged*

[loch.ness]

36 minutes ago, Kuzzter said:

That's awesum! Do you think he's read the comic, or is he a natural Kenlie? The 'Ken' in the name, plus elements like the ship and warp drive make me suspect it. Otherwise yeah, classic adolescent MartyStu story  Here's hoping he's not communicating with 'dark forces'!

 

I'm pretty sure its just a happy circumstance.  His "Super advanced 'Curvature Engine'" is exactly a Warp Drive - I was impressed that he got the basic concept accurate (folding Space so that it expands/contracts and creates a pressure difference to move the ship - though he didn't say it that clearly it was what he had written).

 

As to communicating with Dark Forces... he did read Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy this year - so I think its a safe bet he's also seen the new Star Wars and is trying to get his hands on a light saber.  Beyond those dark forces (the those cookies the darkside keeps offering) - I think he's safe.

[Mister Dilsby]

Well. Am realizing that life support for 12 kerbals plus running 3 Nom-O-Matics in agroponics mode is going to draw 66 kamps (that is, 66 EC/s--20 per Nom-O-Matic, 0.50 per Kerbal). I had thought to power it all with RTGs so that I don't have to rely on solar so far from Kerbol, but that would need 90-100 RTGs. That's a lot of part count. The alternative is 20-25 Gigantors and a krapton of batteries... so I think the thing to do is carry enough RTGs to maintain 6kamps for basic life support, and hope the array of Gigantors provides enough power to keep agroponics going. Even if it doesn't, no one will starve, and I'll be sure to carry extra NOMS in case of a miscalculation. 

Next Bill Update will cover the life support and power calcs in more detail. Today I finished Main Engineering and made some RCS-powered landers for Bop and Pol. Meet the Gumdrop!

Besides the RCS thrusters you can see there's a cluster of four place-anywheres on the bottom for a little extra oomph when landing. Under five tons, full science suite, crew of two, and nicely lands/orbits either of the small moons. I'll probably put a pair of Gumdrops in the forward ramp area of L and R pods.

 

 

[Starhawk]

The Gumdrop is adorable.

And 'kamps' is great!  I may steal borrow that.

As far as the power situation goes, I'm sure that the [REDACTED] will have a gargantuan part count.  I understand the need to keep it from getting ludicrous.

I'm quite glad that you decided to take us all on the engineering journey with you and Bill.

Thanks Kuzzter!

Happy Concerned landings!

[Deddly]

I do like a cute little craft with a well-thought-out design. The Gumdrop is quite adorable!

Edit: Regarding the Skimmeroo, doesn't it bother you a little that the canards look a little...unattached at the bow? Just a little offset and it would look even more "Awesum"
(My subjective opinion)

Edited January 30, 2016 by Deddly

[Guest]

@Kuzzter That thing is so cute!

[Whirligig Girl]

You could install either USI or Near Future reactors to solve the power problem, but then you'd have to have more part mods, something that doesn't seem to be what you want.

[Chemp]

 

Quote

life support for 12 kerbals plus running 3 Nom-O-Matics in agroponics mode is going to draw 66 kamps (that is, 66 EC/s--20 per Nom-O-Matic, 0.50 per Kerbal

Hehe, now that's the engineer in you talking. But I agree, EC is a somewhat nonsensical unit.

[Commander Zoom]

I understand completely the desire to keep the part count down, but I submit that (1) it's a matter of chasing diminishing returns, if you're committed to sending one giant ship anyway; and (2) hopefully 1.1's promised performance improvements will help some, if you can hold out that long.  (Heck, it's looking like testing the components should keep you busy until release.)