Sigma Dimensions

[Sigma88]

5 hours ago, komodo said:

The core functionality is working fine for me. The rescaled buildings took me by surprise initially, as I thought I had mucked it up with KSC so close to the beach at 6.4x! Figured out that I should have that on '1' and not '0' pretty quick, though.

I am not sure if it is designed/intended/able to deal with Kerbal Konstructs/Kerbin-Side, though, so I haven't brought that up before. Results have been mixed there, but I haven't had time for extensive testing. (Even at resize buildings = '0', things were a bit muddled as far as elements above/below terrain).

But yeah, no issues with KSC currently, all orbital type things working as per usual (so, quite nicely!)

Cheers

I will have to take a better look at KK compatibility, but that can probably wait after a proper release have been made.

usually most people avoid pre-releases, which means if I want more feedback on some features I need to put them in a proper release, since the KSC is fixed I am fine with releasing it. SD is a WIP mod anyways so it doesn't need to be perfect

[Sigma88]

@komodo I decided to test KK and found a way to edit it

 

[Kertech]

just wondering if there was a consensus of scale values so that kerbin matches earth? 

 

actually found four pages back. dw

Edited December 3, 2016 by Kertech

[mbartelsm]

I'm having a problem with the mod where I can still wrap above 70.000km even though I scaled the atmosphere to by 2x to 140km

SigmaDimensions
{
	Resize = 5
	Rescale = 5
	Atmosphere = 1.5
	dayLengthMultiplier = 1.5
}

51 minutes ago, Kertech said:

just wondering if there was a consensus of scale values so that kerbin matches earth? 

About 10x orbits and size and 2x atmo, just check kerbins size in the wiki and earth's size in wikipedia.

Edited December 3, 2016 by mbartelsm

[blowfish]

2 hours ago, mbartelsm said:

About 10x orbits and size and 2x atmo, just check kerbins size in the wiki and earth's size in wikipedia.

I don't think 2x atmo is quite correct.  The pressure curve of Kerbin's atmosphere is scaled by 80% compared to earth's.  So 10km altitude on Kerbin is equivalent to 8km altitude on earth.

[Sigma88]

2 hours ago, mbartelsm said:

I'm having a problem with the mod where I can still wrap above 70.000km even though I scaled the atmosphere to by 2x to 140km

SigmaDimensions
{
	Resize = 5
	Rescale = 5
	Atmosphere = 1.5
	dayLengthMultiplier = 1.5
}

you say 2x but the cfg you posted sais 1.5x

anyways, if you can warp at 70km it means something is wrong since 1.5x should bring the atmo at 105km

if you could send me some logs I can take a look, (mainly the output_log.txt and the modulemanager.cachefile, click on nyan cat in my sig for more info)

 

2 hours ago, mbartelsm said:

About 10x orbits and size and 2x atmo, just check kerbins size in the wiki and earth's size in wikipedia.

7 minutes ago, blowfish said:

I don't think 2x atmo is quite correct.  The pressure curve of Kerbin's atmosphere is scaled by 80% compared to earth's.  So 10km altitude on Kerbin is equivalent to 8km altitude on earth.

as @blowfish said, Kerbin stock atmosphere is basically identical to Earth's atmosphere except it is scaled down 0.8x

so to get a realistic Earth atmosphere from kerbin you should use "Atmosphere = 1.25"

the fact that you can find different altitudes online is due to the fact that different sites use different "cut-off" pressures. technically even the ISS is still inside the atmosphere, it's just that there is so little atmosphere up there that you can ignore it in a common conversation.

[JoseEduardo]

at that scale it ends at 87.5m km, which is below the kármán line

but given it is supposed to be at 80% scale from ours, that explain why most of my stuff at 1.7 is having a hard time returning....

[Sigma88]

16 minutes ago, JoseEduardo said:

at that scale it ends at 87.5m km, which is below the kármán line

but given it is supposed to be at 80% scale from ours, that explain why most of my stuff at 1.7 is having a hard time returning....

it ends below the karman line because stock ksp atmosphere is cut off earlier than that.

that's not something SD can solve, but there are other mods that fix that, like @OhioBob's Realistic Atmospheres (iirc)

he also knows a lot about atmospheres so he would probably be able to explain everything in much more detail than what I did here

[OhioBob]

30 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

that's not something SD can solve...

Funny you happen to mention this because I've been meaning to start a conversation with you about the possibility of having SD handle atmospheres differently.  I have some ideas I want to run by you, but I have no idea what can or cannot be done with code.  Expect to receive a PM in the next day or so.

[Sigma88]

6 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

Funny you happen to mention this because I've been meaning to start a conversation with you about the possibility of having SD handle atmospheres differently.  I have some ideas I want to run by you, but I have no idea what can or cannot be done with code.  Expect to receive a PM in the next day or so.

sure, I'm always open to discussion

you can also join me on esper.net, I always leave my pc in an empty channel called #Sigma88Mods, you can drop there and ping me, if I am at the pc I will probably reply

[Ninadragonborn]

i wonder do every one get 10868 delta V with real earth size this the value i entered 

the earth delta V is 9400 i believe 

// Base Settings

SigmaDimensions
{
    Resize = 10
    Rescale = 10
    Atmosphere = 1.4
    dayLengthMultiplier = 4
}

// Advanced Settings

@SigmaDimensions
{
    geeASLmultiplier = 1
    landscape = 1
    atmoVisualEffect = 1
    resizeScatter = 1
    CustomSoISize = 0
    CustomRingSize = 0
    atmoASL = 1
    tempASL = 1
    scanAltitude = 1
}
 

and also for some reason i can't understand the landing gears and landing legs go a little to the ground and they move inside the ground instead of above it that is so weird that make my plane explode 

 

Edited December 3, 2016 by Ninadragonborn

[Sigma88]

40 minutes ago, Ninadragonborn said:

i wonder do every one get 10868 delta V with real earth size this the value i entered 

the earth delta V is 9400 i believe 

the values you choose are more or less aprroximate so 10.8k instead of 9.4k is not so bad.

the radius you used is a bit on the small side (should be Resize = 10.618348) and the atmosphere is a bit high (should be 1.25)

maybe those can get you closer to 9.4k

42 minutes ago, Ninadragonborn said:

and also for some reason i can't understand the landing gears and landing legs go a little to the ground and they move inside the ground instead of above it that is so weird that make my plane explode 

haven't been able to solve that yet, it is linked to some ksp setting for the terrain, are you using custom KSP terrain settings? like terrain low or stuff like that?

[Karamon]

Amount of delta v you need on the rocket depend on many things, not only scale . To get in orbit you need something around 7500 delta V , 7700 at 180 parking orbit? i don't remember but the point is that more efficient your launch is, less drag you have less delta V you need to pack into your rocket . As far as i got with 10x scale most efficient rocket designs were able to get into 180x180 parking orbit with 9.8 delta V and i consider it very very efficient. But in 99% launches 10k delta V is enough (spread evenly in 2 stages 5000/5000, one starting 1.2 twr at ground level and second 0.8-0.9 twr)

 

Btw atmo 1.4 gives you something around 100km atmosphere so is kinda "earthlike"

Edited December 3, 2016 by Karamon

[Ninadragonborn]

12 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

the values you choose are more or less aprroximate so 10.8k instead of 9.4k is not so bad.

the radius you used is a bit on the small side (should be Resize = 10.618348) and the atmosphere is a bit high (should be 1.25)

maybe those can get you closer to 9.4k

haven't been able to solve that yet, it is linked to some ksp setting for the terrain, are you using custom KSP terrain settings? like terrain low or stuff like that?

you mean mod terrain low or low graphic setting 

if you mean low graphic setting yes unfortunately my PC is a old lad and i have stuck with it for a long time of 6 years and can't afford a new PC so yes if you mean low setting 

but if you mean a mod no 

 

about those numbers i really can not understand why i get this so much delta V but i try do as you said and thanks again for help i wish i could help let me know i you need help i am a brave  Astronaut 

[Ger_space]

@Sigma88

about rescaling of KK: the objects in KK are grouped together (for better performance) and have a group-center-object.
I could add to each static object the position of the master (lat,lng) and a vector (direction and length) from the master to itself.

I could add an API for you (but then you need either link KK and check if it is installed, or use c# reflection to call the API) or try to abuse pqsCity.gameObject.name to encode the information in a string

 

[Sigma88]

3 minutes ago, Ger_space said:

@Sigma88

about rescaling of KK: the objects in KK are grouped together (for better performance) and have a group-center-object.
I could add to each static object the position of the master (lat,lng) and a vector (direction and length) from the master to itself.

I could add an API for you (but then you need either link KK and check if it is installed, or use c# reflection to call the API) or try to abuse pqsCity.gameObject.name to encode the information in a string

 

so wait, is there any way right now for me to get the center object of any given pqscity mod? because if there is I can just do that and call it a day

and on a side note, why is it that KK creates a lot of PQSCity mods instead of just one with multiple models?

 

also, thanks for taking the time

Edited December 3, 2016 by Sigma88

[Ninadragonborn]

1 hour ago, Karamon said:

Amount of delta v you need on the rocket depend on many things, not only scale . To get in orbit you need something around 7500 delta V , 7700 at 180 parking orbit? i don't remember but the point is that more efficient your launch is, less drag you have less delta V you need to pack into your rocket . As far as i got with 10x scale most efficient rocket designs were able to get into 180x180 parking orbit with 9.8 delta V and i consider it very very efficient. But in 99% launches 10k delta V is enough (spread evenly in 2 stages 5000/5000, one starting 1.2 twr at ground level and second 0.8-0.9 twr)

 

Btw atmo 1.4 gives you something around 100km atmosphere so is kinda "earthlike"

thanks Karamon 

i saw 10865 delta V for kerbin inside tracking station so i thought that is kerbin low orbit delta V 

[Sigma88]

1 hour ago, Ninadragonborn said:

you mean mod terrain low or low graphic setting 

yes I did mean low graphics settings. it is known to create problems even on stock iirc

[mbartelsm]

5 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

you say 2x but the cfg you posted sais 1.5x

anyways, if you can warp at 70km it means something is wrong since 1.5x should bring the atmo at 105km

if you could send me some logs I can take a look, (mainly the output_log.txt and the modulemanager.cachefile, click on nyan cat in my sig for more info)

 

as @blowfish said, Kerbin stock atmosphere is basically identical to Earth's atmosphere except it is scaled down 0.8x

so to get a realistic Earth atmosphere from kerbin you should use "Atmosphere = 1.25"

the fact that you can find different altitudes online is due to the fact that different sites use different "cut-off" pressures. technically even the ISS is still inside the atmosphere, it's just that there is so little atmosphere up there that you can ignore it in a common conversation.

 

 

Oh, I was actually comparing minimum orbits, wiki says that LEO is much higher than that, but since you say the atm pressure in kerbin is actually much closer to reality then I guess you are probably right.

Regarding the issue, I just realized I have realistic atmospheres installed, I'm gonna remove it and check again.

Edited December 4, 2016 by mbartelsm

[Ger_space]

7 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

so wait, is there any way right now for me to get the center object of any given pqscity mod? because if there is I can just do that and call it a day

and on a side note, why is it that KK creates a lot of PQSCity mods instead of just one with multiple models?

 

also, thanks for taking the time

1. There is no way to get the grouping information out of the pqsCity structure. I could try to write an dynamic grouping algorithm for you (something I wanted also for KK) and a rescaler function. I wrote most of the math for the next KK update, so most work is done.

2. Because I have no idea how sqad did it. The ksc looks like one big prefab model to me. There are no references in the api how to create my own clustered prefab within the c# api.

3. I like the challenge. I like to have some distraction from the  current bug I fight within KK.

[Sigma88]

Sigma Dimensions v0.7.0

added a new plugin and the ability of resize/reposition buildings

 

all the links are available in the OP

 

If you want to follow the development of my mods:  

If you want to buy me a cup of coffee:    

 

This mod would not be possible without the work of:

- sarbian (ModuleManager)	Donate to Sarbian here:
- Thomas P. (Kopernicus)	Donate to Thomas here:

 

 

Changelog:

v0.7.0

- Included SigmaDimensions.dll plugin
- Added the parameter resizeBuildings
- Added support for PQSCity repositioning

Edited December 4, 2016 by Sigma88

[Eklykti]

17 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

all the links are available in the OP

And that link is to Sigma Binary

[Sigma88]

45 minutes ago, Eklykti said:

And that link is to Sigma Binary

no it doesn't

 

 

 

 

[Cheesecake]

Hey Sigma,

after downloading your newest release my KSC looks like this:

 

 

I changed the Settings to this:

Quote

SigmaDimensions
{
    Resize = 1.3
    Rescale = 3
    Atmosphere = 1.4
    dayLengthMultiplier = 2
}

 

With older releases this is OK.

[Sigma88]

@Cheesecake do you have planet packs installed? alternatively, did you change the game settings, specifically something performance related, like terrain: low-medium-high or stuff like that?