vBulletin vs. IPS, from your average user's perspective.

[Columbia]

3 hours ago, Endersmens said:

That was a pre-migration post @Columbia. You can't make that argument based on the migration issues. If that post was reposted with all the BBcode in the correct format it would work fine. (Besides tables I think)

Fine. Point proven.

But still, you can't change that not all of it works. As you said, tables:

(Sorry for having the laziness not to crop.)

With that being said, I suggest you change this line in the OP:

"Yes. You can use BBcode in the editor. The only drawback is that once it is posted it is converted into WYSIWYG. (excludes certain codes like tables)"

 

Also, may I ask, is there now a way to upload images without going to Imgur or some other site?

[steve_v]

14 minutes ago, Columbia said:

"Yes. You can use BBcode in the editor. The only drawback is that once it is posted it is converted into WYSIWYG. (excludes certain codes like tables)"

Also, may I ask, is there now a way to upload images without going to Imgur or some other site?

Not entirely true, some stuff is parsed as soon as you hit [space], which for me at any rate, causes unexpected cursor-jumping while typing

As for hosting images on the forum server... bandwidth and storage space allowing, it would be nice.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Hobbes Novakoff said:

Laziness is just a derogatory word for efficiency.  But I also see we're never going to agree on this. So, let's end this debate before one of us says something we'll regret.

Laziness CAN BE a derogatory word for efficiency, just as efficiency can be used to make laziness not look so bad. But in this case, no. The wysiwyg editor is not efficient. It allows people to make the simplest of posts without having to think or remember, but if you want to do anything at all it is far, far more difficult.

In short, I'm lazy, so I want post source editing options so I don't have to do all the work required to make anything more complex than posts like this one here. In other words, I want to be efficient.

[Endersmens]

44 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Fine. Point proven.

With that being said, I suggest you change this line in the OP:

"Yes. You can use BBcode in the editor. The only drawback is that once it is posted it is converted into WYSIWYG. (excludes certain codes like tables)"

I'm confused. What am I changing about the line? 

[Columbia]

On 12/4/2015, 11:19:15, Endersmens said:

 

26 minutes ago, Endersmens said:

I'm confused. What am I changing about the line? 

Not all of BBCode is functional, some of it still doesn't function.

[Endersmens]

11 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Not all of BBCode is functional, some of it still doesn't function.

Give me a list of every BBcode that doesn't function, and I'll include it.  

[Columbia]

18 minutes ago, Endersmens said:

Give me a list of every BBcode that doesn't function, and I'll include it.  

I don't know what this is called, but it's the only actual issue i find:

[Endersmens]

@Columbia, those are the codes for tables.

[Hobbes Novakoff]

3 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Laziness CAN BE a derogatory word for efficiency, just as efficiency can be used to make laziness not look so bad. But in this case, no. The wysiwyg editor is not efficient. It allows people to make the simplest of posts without having to think or remember, but if you want to do anything at all it is far, far more difficult.

In short, I'm lazy, so I want post source editing options so I don't have to do all the work required to make anything more complex than posts like this one here. In other words, I want to be efficient.

First off...erm...That was a joke, not a rebuttal .

Though in response, I see we just have fundamentally different positions on the whole thing. We could argue about this for weeks, or at least until someone loses their temper and the mods have to step in. But I see none of us is going to convince each other any more than we can convince each other to switch religions. My apologies for being a bit hostile during the entire thing. I've been a bit too quick to jump into the fray. You know how it is. But anyway, I'm going to put this dispute to rest. May as well let people air their perceived grievances without dragging them into a debate. Really, aside from "go back to the old forum," negative feedback is always more helpful, assuming it's given in a constructive, mature way. (Unlike some people in this thread.) So, I'm not going to participate in this debate any longer. It'll just result in more and more animosity between us.

Regards,

Hobbes Novakoff

Also, P.S. @steve_v: I wasn't playing "who gets the last word." I was agreeing with you. Really.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Hobbes Novakoff

[Claw]

I see that the flames are starting to flare up. Everyone is certainly free to voice opinions. I might also add that please realize it's pretty easy to misinterpret someone's intent when dealing with pure text communication. Sometimes tone is inferred when there wasn't meant to be. Please be mindful of that when posting and replying.

Thanks

Edited December 6, 2015 by Claw

[Claw]

On 12/4/2015, 5:25:39, Columbia said:

"Quote someone, and cut their quote into 5 pieces so you can answer them inline, in turn.

On the old system, I still had to copy/paste "Quote:BlahBlahBlah" and ensure there was a [/ QUOTE] in there. Now I just copy/paste what I want, or highlight it.

 

On 12/4/2015, 5:25:39, Columbia said:

Bonus points if you can do it without using your mouse.

Why would I not use my mouse? I used it before? I get the complaint that you can't use keyboard only to edit the quote into multiple parts, but mice are fairly standard nowadays. The real issue is probably more for the mobile users, because it's a lot more intensive. Though I had issues before, because my phone didn't like to use [ ], so I had to copy/paste everything anyway.

 

On 12/4/2015, 5:25:39, Columbia said:

Post no text but 3 YouTube videos. Then, change your mind and put the bottom one on the top.

You do this by "Left-Click and hold" on the square that's on the top left (there's one on every main element). Drag that square to the new desired position. There's even a caret and line showing exactly where the element will go when dropped. This works for quotes too.

 

On 12/4/2015, 5:25:39, Columbia said:

Post a table and then later on change whether or not it's bordered, or how many columns it has.

Control+Right-Click brings the dialog back up. Then make many changes.

Left Side Cells	Nested Table With multiple justifications
Not sure what else to say  Enter for big spacing	Just keep adding text  Shift+Enter if you want to keep spacing short
Fat Cells Headers Can Be Useful	And more tables

 

On 12/4/2015, 5:25:39, Columbia said:

Some of this can be done in the new forum. Some of it can't. All of it is easier if you have access to the source code.

I don't know... Once I got used to dragging stuff around, I was able to make that table above pretty quick. And I can specify a lot of options with it. Was by far easier than trying to maintain my old Biome Hopper challenge table.

Oh by the way, if you want to add a quote to a post you already started writing, you just have to go back up to the post, highlight, and select "Quote this". It automatically appends. Like what I'm about to do below.

On 12/4/2015, 5:25:39, Columbia said:

Note: This is just the stuff I've noticed in the past day or so, of fairly limited forum use.

Yes indeed. Except it's all still possible.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Claw

[Columbia]

28 minutes ago, Claw said:

On the old system, I still had to copy/paste "Quote:BlahBlahBlah" and ensure there was a [/ QUOTE] in there. Now I just copy/paste what I want, or highlight it.

 

Why would I not use my mouse? I used it before? I get the complaint that you can't use keyboard only to edit the quote into multiple parts, but mice are fairly standard nowadays. The real issue is probably more for the mobile users, because it's a lot more intensive. Though I had issues before, because my phone didn't like to use [ ], so I had to copy/paste everything anyway.

 

You do this by "Left-Click and hold" on the square that's on the top left (there's one on every main element). Drag that square to the new desired position. There's even a caret and line showing exactly where the element will go when dropped. This works for quotes too.

 

Control+Right-Click brings the dialog back up. Then make many changes.

Left Side Cells	Nested Table With multiple justifications
Not sure what else to say  Enter for big spacing	Just keep adding text  Shift+Enter if you want to keep spacing short
Fat Cells Headers Can Be Useful	And more tables

 

I don't know... Once I got used to dragging stuff around, I was able to make that table above pretty quick. And I can specify a lot of options with it. Was by far easier than trying to maintain my old Biome Hopper challenge table.

Oh by the way, if you want to add a quote to a post you already started writing, you just have to go back up to the post, highlight, and select "Quote this". It automatically appends. Like what I'm about to do below.

Yes indeed. Except it's all still possible.

Then.. uh.. thanks. For that information.. now more people will.. understand. 

 

 

[r4pt0r]

R  E  K  T
E
K
T

[Columbia]

16 hours ago, Endersmens said:

5 hours ago, r4pt0r said:

R  E  K  T
E
K
T

That was a pre-migration post @Columbia. You can't make that argument based on the migration issues. If that post was reposted with all the BBcode in the correct format it would work fine. (Besides tables I

5 hours ago, r4pt0r said:

R  E  K  T
E
K
T

Well crap. I messed up this entire editor by my unadaptability to the new system. I'm writing on mobile, so... Does someone know how you delete quotes on mobile?

Oh, finally. That was odd. I just pressed enter a few times. (I'm not kidding, I spent more time trying to delete Endersmen's quote than make this post)

 

Jesus Christ r4ptor, I just quoted 5thHorseman's words since I agree with them bit by bit, Claw countered all the listed problems that I didn't know how to use with the new forum, and you look at me like I tried to attack everyone and do "damage control", and failed? 

Oh, I'm so goddamn sorry I can't adapt to this new forum and had misconceptions. 

 

[Superfluous J]

6 hours ago, Claw said:

Why would I not use my mouse? I used it before? I get the complaint that you can't use keyboard only to edit the quote into multiple parts, but mice are fairly standard nowadays. The real issue is probably more for the mobile users, because it's a lot more intensive. Though I had issues before, because my phone didn't like to use [ ], so I had to copy/paste everything anyway.

Control+Right-Click brings the dialog back up. Then make many changes.

Left Side Cells	Nested Table With multiple justifications
Not sure what else to say  Enter for big spacing	Just keep adding text  Shift+Enter if you want to keep spacing short
Fat Cells Headers Can Be Useful	And more tables

 

You quoted Columbia, but I originally said all this. I'm not going to do the inline quoting because - in spite of the fact that I could use the mouse, I find it far more clunky than you do. The mouse is a blaster, clumsy and random. The keyboard is a light saber, an elegant tool from a more civilized age.

I did not know about ctrl-right-click for tables. That is essentially awesome. I'll remain grumpy about having to use the mouse but the fact that it's possible will make my signature better. Thank you.

[Beale]

On 12/5/2015, 3:25:39, Columbia said:

Let me quote @5thHorseman;

"Quote someone, and cut their quote into 5 pieces so you can answer them inline, in turn. Bonus points if you can do it without using your mouse.

Post no text but 3 YouTube videos. Then, change your mind and put the bottom one on the top.

Post a table and then later on change whether or not it's bordered, or how many columns it has.

Some of this can be done in the new forum. Some of it can't. All of it is easier if you have access to the source code.

Note: This is just the stuff I've noticed in the past day or so, of fairly limited forum use. I'm not even bringing up how hard it is to format my Squadcast Summaries now because I'd have to highlight a whole bunch of stuff and manually change the color to green over and over, instead of a quick and simple search/replace in Notepad++ before copy/pasting the workable code into the forum. Well okay I did mention it but I understand it's an edge case so am fine with just not doing it aymore. The things I posted above, on the other hand, are things you could want to do on a regular basis."

In other news, I don't know how to transfer quotes from one post to another. Anyone know how?

These are the exact problems I'm having. Having an addon thread means a lot of quoting, chopping up and grouping quotes. It's so hard now with the new editor.

I want to reply to everyone, but it takes so much longer now.

I did find this.

Quote

isRte allows you to override whether the editor should display as the WYSIWG editor, or a plain text box. The user can still toggle this using the switch icon in the top-left button, but specifying this option will override how it displays when the page is first loaded. It is not recommended that you use this option, so that the users existing preference is honoured.
 

So there is a plain text editor? It just seems the admins have disabled it?

 

After initial bad reaction, IPS is not bad - it's simple, modern and might look better to some, but, the editor really has been the one point I just cannot get over.

 

@Claw I cannot quite get the "Quote This" function to work. I am editing this post here, but am not able to quote you?

Edited December 6, 2015 by Beale

[Endersmens]

If anything I find the tables much easier to work with, you don't have to memorize all the width/height/cell stuff.

There are some things I wish we still had, but most of them still work. I'm going to link Mad Rocket Scientist's thread on how to adapt in the OP, it has some of this stuff in it I believe.  

[Claw]

48 minutes ago, Beale said:

Quote This" function to work.

Perhaps it's a browser thing. I am using my phone right now, so I know the Quote This works on both a desktop and mobile. The common piece being that I'm using Chrome.

But as for the actual "how." I just highlight some text, and leave the mouse over/near the highlight text after releasing the button. There's a small popup button that literally says "Quote this" that appears. I click on that, and it appends to whatever I'm already writing, or into a new post if I haven't started yet.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Claw

[Beale]

 

4 minutes ago, Claw said:

But as for the actual "how." I just highlight some text, and leave the mouse over/near the highlight text after releasing the button. There's a small popup button that literally says "Quote this" that appears. I click on that, and it appends to whatever I'm already writing, or into a new post if I haven't started yet.

Yes, here's my problem. No-matter what context, pressing the "Quote This" opens up a new reply editor. 

What I am struggling to do is paste a quote into an already existing message.

Could be a problem with Browser, but I am using Chrome too.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Beale

[Claw]

7 minutes ago, Beale said:

What I am struggling to do is paste a quote into an already existing message.

Well, you can also cut and paste the quote over. That's far from ideal though. I didn't really do anything specific to chrome to get it to work. And I haven't seen a setting for that in the forum yet, but I'll poke around some.

[sal_vager]

Not sure if anyone else noticed, but there is a "see full list" option on the "who's online" thing that can sort by username or last activity, and can filter by group.

So all you stalkers fans can still see if Scott Manley insertnamehere is on or not

[Endersmens]

@sal_vager, any chance of the "Who's Online" list being sorted alphabetically? You've be amazed at how easy that makes it to check if people are online.

[sal_vager]

9 minutes ago, Endersmens said:

@sal_vager, any chance of the "Who's Online" list being sorted alphabetically? You've be amazed at how easy that makes it to check if people are online.

Sorting by user name and filtering for members only is alphabetical, it's just in reverse order and some characters such as _ come before A, but at least it's not just Guest Guest Guest for umpteen pages

[steve_v]

5 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

The mouse is a blaster, clumsy and random. The keyboard is a light saber, an elegant tool from a more civilized age.

My thoughts exactly.

 

3 hours ago, Beale said:

These are the exact problems I'm having. Having an addon thread means a lot of quoting, chopping up and grouping quotes. It's so hard now with the new editor.

I want to reply to everyone, but it takes so much longer now.

I did find this.

So there is a plain text editor? It just seems the admins have disabled it?

This is really what's bugging me, the WYSIWYG editor is fine for some but I find it pretty bizarre that there's no way to switch to plain-text... surely that's just an option somewhere that is, presumably, turned off?

2 hours ago, Beale said:

No-matter what context, pressing the "Quote This" opens up a new reply editor. 

What I am struggling to do is paste a quote into an already existing message.

Could be a problem with Browser, but I am using Chrome too.

I've been having issues with this too - it's fine if you want multiple quotes in a new post, but if I edit an existing post to include another quote, the "quote this" button starts a new post. Now I have two editor windows, and I can't seem to move the quote from the new post  to the one I want to edit, I don't think it's the browser either, I'm using Iceweasel/Firefox on GNU/Linux here.

I guess I'll try cut/paste... but last time I tried that it did something truly funky to the formatting and made everything typed after the quote bold. I'm still not convinced this is less hassle than BBCode quote blocks.

[mythbusters844]

To everyone defending the WYSIWYG editor: what's being requested is an OPTION to use BBcode in the editor, and obviously not a complete change to it. This means that if the forums get it, then you won't be forced to use any particular editor, and you'll still be free to use the buggy and frustrating mess that is WYSI(SIYLAHTOP)WYG.