[1.1.3] KSO (Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter) Legacy Packs & Development Updates

[smotheredrun]

On 6/18/2018 at 1:29 PM, Woodstar said:

Dead mod?

Lol.  No, we've even taken it off life support and it's breathing fine on its own.

It's just at the physical rehab stage right now - learning to walk again etc.

Tell ya what, give it a good solid tryout in whatever verion of KSP you have and let us know what bugs strike you.  Just please read back the last couple pages to see if the issues you have are already known.

 

Thanks!

[Woodstar]

On 6/20/2018 at 12:40 PM, smotheredrun said:

Lol.  No, we've even taken it off life support and it's breathing fine on its own.

It's just at the physical rehab stage right now - learning to walk again etc.

Tell ya what, give it a good solid tryout in whatever verion of KSP you have and let us know what bugs strike you.  Just please read back the last couple pages to see if the issues you have are already known.

 

Thanks!

What happened to helldiver and the new X series, I don't want to Dl the OG files and add a bunch of fixes just to play with it. Was wondering if he was still developing the new shuttle series that's all.

[smotheredrun]

6 hours ago, Woodstar said:

What happened to helldiver and the new X series, I don't want to Dl the OG files and add a bunch of fixes just to play with it. Was wondering if he was still developing the new shuttle series that's all.

Ah.  I have no idea about helldiver's whereabouts.  Ditto for the X series or whatever it was to become.  

[astro_119]

so rip this mod i guess

[King Something]

16 hours ago, BlaZe119 said:

so rip this mod i guess

Probably, unless the mod author changes the license from ND to SA.

 

A shame, since this was a great mod.

[astro_119]

1 hour ago, King Something said:

Probably, unless the mod author changes the license from ND to SA.

 

A shame, since this was a great mod.

yep, i still use it though, know a way to increase the deltaV of the shuttle? trying to get to the mun with the kso

[Eskandare]

What are the latest patch files for KSO?

On 8/31/2018 at 6:18 AM, BlaZe119 said:

so rip this mod i guess

To be honest I think @helldiver had thought his mod was complete and left it as is. He probably got burnt out from updating the mod to each new version and also real life took priority, probably. I myself had to devote time to real life and stopped modding for a while. Now I'm back and under a bunch of large projects. Nonetheless, he could make a return someday or hand the mod over to a new dev. I may see if I can rattle @helldiver's cage and ask him if I could take over development of KSO. I currently have; Eskandare Aeronautics, Kerbin Side Remastered/Supply and Demand, Carrier Vessel Expansion, and a couple of prototype mods I'm working on. On top of that I am current owner/custodian of KAX, OPT, and Baha EPL

[shdwlrd]

4 hours ago, Eskandare said:

What are the latest patch files for KSO?

The latest patches from Nazari are at this link. There were written before the latest MM updates and will throw errors.   https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4jhh6dbg1vcwyf/KSO.CommunityPatch.Dec3.zip?dl=0

Nothing public has been released since. @smotheredrun has a collection of patches submitted by the fans of KSO.

4 hours ago, Eskandare said:

To be honest I think @helldiver had thought his mod was complete and left it as is. He probably got burnt out from updating the mod to each new version and also real life took priority, probably. I myself had to devote time to real life and stopped modding for a while. Now I'm back and under a bunch of large projects. Nonetheless, he could make a return someday or hand the mod over to a new dev. I may see if I can rattle @helldiver's cage and ask him if I could take over development of KSO. I currently have; Eskandare Aeronautics, Kerbin Side Remastered/Supply and Demand, Carrier Vessel Expansion, and a couple of prototype mods I'm working on. On top of that I am current owner/custodian of KAX, OPT, and Baha EPL

Good luck getting ownership/guardianship of KSO. I like many would like to see an official update for KSO models and all.

[Eskandare]

Hmmmm I've got to look up the full definition of derivative works, because I could take it over under CC 4.0 license. In theory I can redistribute KSO with new configs for compatibility since the config is not licence-able (the config is a component of KSP) , but there cannot be any changes to the art. I can't make anything new for it because that would be a derivative work. However, I can make new stuff similar to KSO under a new mod but not as KSO.

@linuxgurugamer, what is your thoughts on that?

Edited September 16, 2018 by Eskandare

[linuxgurugamer]

34 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

Hmmmm I've got to look up the full definition of derivative works, because I could take it over under CC 4.0 license. In theory I can redistribute KSO with new configs for compatibility since the config is not licence-able (the config is a component of KSP) , but there cannot be any changes to the art. I can't make anything new for it because that would be a derivative work. However, I can make new stuff similar to KSO under a new mod but not as KSO.

@linuxgurugamer, what is your thoughts on that?

I'm not a lawyer.  However, based on experience, my interpretation is this:

No Derivatives is just that.  You have to distribute it exactly as is.

You CAN, however, include it as part of another mod (ie:  a mod of patches), I've done that for the external handrails I sort-of adopted years ago.

 I don't know what you mean about the config is a component of KSP, it's part of the mod.

[Eskandare]

26 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I'm not a lawyer.  However, based on experience, my interpretation is this:

No Derivatives is just that.  You have to distribute it exactly as is.

You CAN, however, include it as part of another mod (ie:  a mod of patches), I've done that for the external handrails I sort-of adopted years ago.

 I don't know what you mean about the config is a component of KSP, it's part of the mod.

So, it looks like I'll have to just make a patch that flat out replaces the entire config.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 minute ago, Eskandare said:

So, it looks like I'll have to just make a patch that flat out replaces the entire config.

Yes

[Eskandare]

Hello, everyone! @helldiver has given me permission to conduct the full update for KSO. I am as of now the current maintainer.

[StarStreak2109]

5 hours ago, Eskandare said:

Hello, everyone! @helldiver has given me permission to conduct the full update for KSO. I am as of now the current maintainer.

Good news!

[Eskandare]

14 hours ago, StarStreak2109 said:

Good news!

Yes! Actually I wouldn't mind a list of things needing fixing (most are probably obvious).

I'll have to check the drag cubes and add the cargobay module. I'll go through the community patches. Wheels probably need checking.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Eskandare

[shdwlrd]

20 hours ago, Eskandare said:

Hello, everyone! @helldiver has given me permission to conduct the full update for KSO. I am as of now the current maintainer.

WOOT!!!  it's about time that KSO was given it someone that will maintain it.

PS. @Eskandare I have a list of things that need to be fixed with the mu's and a set of patches for your perusal if you want to see them.

Ask and you shall receive...

Spoiler

KSO Mu Problems

The rover, sedans, and lorries have a flipped or incomplete collider.

All parts are using the wrong collider type.

All shuttle parts need the CoM, CoL, and CoP changed.

Bad drag cubes for both shuttle bays.

One of the main wings for the little shuttle doesn’t have a pivot point defined for the elevon.

A ton of unused animations for the flaps for the large shuttle main wings.

Config problems.

Too many to list.

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by shdwlrd
list of problems

[Eskandare]

1 hour ago, shdwlrd said:

WOOT!!!  it's about time that KSO was given it someone that will maintain it.

PS. @Eskandare I have a list of things that need to be fixed with the mu's and a set of patches for your perusal if you want to see them.

Ask and you shall receive...

  Hide contents

KSO Mu Problems

 

The rover, sedans, and lorries have a flipped or incomplete collider.

 

All parts are using the wrong collider type.

 

All shuttle parts need the CoM, CoL, and CoP changed.

 

Bad drag cubes for both shuttle bays.

 

One of the main wings for the little shuttle doesn’t have a pivot point defined for the elevon.

A ton of unused animations for the flaps for the large shuttle main wings.

 

Config problems.

 

Too many to list.

 

 

Mu problems? Describe them to me. I'm sure @helldiver won't mind me reverse engineering his models to fix physical issues, but I told him the art will stay as is.

The collider issues are probably just that the models originally were using mesh colliders, which is fine but now colliders have to be convex. I can make new colliders for the models and re-rig the models. If @helldiver is okay with it I can add light flares to the landing gear lights. More importantly, I'll look over the models and colliders for sure.

Hmmn, I'll go through the models and repair the parts that are broken. I'll start with the shuttles. 

Oh, and because Firespitter is on it's last legs I'll be using the WBI plugin by @Angel-125 which is much better for the helicopter and I'll throw in a custom rotor blur as a gift to @helldiver.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Eskandare

[shdwlrd]

19 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

Mu problems? Describe them to me. I'm sure @helldiver won't mind me reverse engineering his models to fix physical issues, but I told him the art will stay as is.

The big thing is for all the main parts for the shuttles the part centers are lined up to the center of the body. It makes the glide characteristics for both shuttles very unstable because lift and drag isn't being applied properly. It causes the shuttles to "lawn dart" through the atmosphere instead of gliding.

The missing pivot point is on the right wing of the dauntless. It makes it that the elevons are unusable with out some hacky config wrangling.

I opened the dauntless wings that I could to show the issues above.

The super25 evelons are missing the working flaps and speed brakes in the configs. The flaps and speed brakes aren't tied together so to make them work you would have to a control module to each surface.

Picts for proof that they are there. The photo below is of full flaps pitched down. (the center piece does move, but the animation is wonky.)

Flaps with air brakes while pitching up.

 

 

[Eskandare]

@shdwlrd Lift characteristics of parts are kind of a weird thing because it is more or less based on a few factors. the 0,0,0 parent isn't so much an issue as the collider is the issue and the drag cube generated by the part's main mesh. Even if I 0,0,0 out the part the weird drag characteristics will lawn dart the part. I'll consult my colleges on the matter to get a better understanding of the lift characteristic of the wing part. The pivot on the elevon assembly doesn't need an 'empty' to be a pivot. Helldiver probably used an empty transform to reverse the local orientation of the part.

 

Edit: Yes, my assumption was correct, wings require lift coefficient (lift stat) and drag cube.  Since no custom drag cubes were applied to the shuttle wings, it is generating ones by default. This causes problems as KSP wants to streamline everything.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Eskandare

[Angelo Kerman]

I played with the KSOS back in 0.23.5 when I first started playing KSP. I even designed Pathfinder's predecessor, Multipurpose Colony Modules, to fit inside the Super 25.

Nice to see the shuttle getting a new home.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Angel-125

[Eskandare]

27 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

I played with the KSOS back in 23.5 when I first started playing KSP. I even designed Pathfinder's predecessor, Multipurpose Colony Modules, to fit inside the Super 25.

Nice to see the shuttle getting a new home.

Ahh, yes, I remember. Maybe you can revive it as a part of pathfinder.

[Angelo Kerman]

21 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

Ahh, yes, I remember. Maybe you can revive it as a part of pathfinder.

For awhile, I did have a version of MCM for Pathfinder. When I added the 2.5m station parts into DSEV, I retired it though. The hub in that picture became the Mk2 Ground Hub in DSEV, and the Mk2 Tranquility Module and Short Logistics Module replaced the Multipurpose Colony Module in that picture. What's nice is that they still fit in the Super 25:

Above is my own feeble attempt to revive the KSO for story purposes. Nice to see that you're going to give it the full treatment.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Angel-125

[shdwlrd]

12 hours ago, Eskandare said:

@shdwlrd Lift characteristics of parts are kind of a weird thing because it is more or less based on a few factors. the 0,0,0 parent isn't so much an issue as the collider is the issue and the drag cube generated by the part's main mesh. Even if I 0,0,0 out the part the weird drag characteristics will lawn dart the part. I'll consult my colleges on the matter to get a better understanding of the lift characteristic of the wing part. The pivot on the elevon assembly doesn't need an 'empty' to be a pivot. Helldiver probably used an empty transform to reverse the local orientation of the part.

 

Edit: Yes, my assumption was correct, wings require lift coefficient (lift stat) and drag cube.  Since no custom drag cubes were applied to the shuttle wings, it is generating ones by default. This causes problems as KSP wants to streamline everything.

I hate trying to quote using a mobile device. Grrr... the reason I mentioned the pivot points was for the sake of consistency. It doesn't matter which one is used, just made it a pita to get the elevons and flaps working properly.  

Adding a custom drag cube for the wings would solve the no lift and drag problems. You may want to look at the control surfaces too. The 0.0.0 point for them is on the edge of the parts.

[mostlydave]

On 9/17/2018 at 1:23 AM, Eskandare said:

Hello, everyone! @helldiver has given me permission to conduct the full update for KSO. I am as of now the current maintainer.

Did Helldiver mention the KSO EX? He was working on it and sharing update in pm but stopped sharing updates.

[Eskandare]

6 hours ago, mostlydave said:

Did Helldiver mention the KSO EX? He was working on it and sharing update in pm but stopped sharing updates.

I'll ask him, but since he has been lead artist on a video game, I'm sure he hasn't had the time to work on the EX.