[1.12.X] Kerbal Planetary Base Systems v1.6.15 [28. April 2022]

[Nils277]

On 27.4.2016 at 7:26 AM, TampaPowers said:

I don't know if I might be seeing things, but the Mun reports 32.1% water in its atmosphere, which would be awfully nice if it could be harvested somehow. Maybe a container that uses condensation to take the water from the atmosphere using electric charge? Maybe even a dual purpose container to take water from actual oceans.

I also looked into USI and I am rather confused as to how the whole machining mechanic actually works, but I think what is needed is either machinery or specialized parts as the replacement parts are not generated through anything. I believe all that is needed is to have a workshop module and the raw resources to handle the wear of parts, but I haven't done testing on this yet. Probably best to bug @RoverDude about this, I will ask in his thread anyways since the wiki seems out of date on this.

 

EDIT:

So a Workshop and Fabrication module is needed along with the drills to extract the raw resources. Probably make sense to have them on the larger side of things, maybe reusing the planetary hub model in some way?

That sounds to me alot like actually adding similar mechanics (long production chains) like the ones from MKS/OKS. I don't want to open Pandora's box here, because MKS/OKS is very complex and would need a lot other parts as well. To be honest, i don't like the complexity of MKS/OKS, When i want build and optimize production chains a play Anno.  Just my opinion though. 

But don't worry, i will add a way to produce replacement parts. In a way that it does not interfere (too much) with the mechanics of MKS/OKS to both can still be used simultaneously.

20 hours ago, Hexicube said:

Some heavy-duty base wheels wouldn't go amiss, the standard ones aren't up for the stresses of Eve (1.7g). Maybe tripled stress/impact tolerance, and stronger suspension to match.

A higher top speed (for standard only if you add heavy-duty) and slower response for the wheels would also be nice. It's a little weird to have them immediately jump to 10m/s and just sit there, and the acceleration is hard to control.

I will make the wheels much more robust so they can be used on EVE too. Haven't been to EVE with the new wheels yet, so i didn't know they are not able to work there properly. I will also take care of the fast acceleration at start to make the craft more manoeuvrable.

[TampaPowers]

I wouldn't mind just having a single part to convert lots of ElectricCharge and Ore into parts, just felt I should do the proper research.

[Nils277]

7 minutes ago, TampaPowers said:

I wouldn't mind just having a single part to convert lots of ElectricCharge and Ore into parts, just felt I should do the proper research.

Okay, thanks  Didn't mean to criticize or someting. 

Btw. i still thing about the Condensator for Air and Pump for Water...May be a good idea. Especially the pump for water.
But why do you have 32.1% water in the atmosphere of the Mun? I thought it does not have an atmosphere.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Nils277

[TampaPowers]

I am as confused as you are about that, but it does say that here I scanned it using the stock orbital scanner. No idea where it gets it from. Minmus isn't reporting anything in its atmosphere.

[bazz]

Just tried this mod out in 1.1 when i put the little big foot landing legs or wheels down the craft flies into the air and explosions occur as a result.

[TampaPowers]

1 minute ago, bazz said:

Just tried this mod out in 1.1 when i put the little big foot landing legs or wheels down the craft flies into the air and explosions occur as a result.

I think that is an issue with landings legs in general as some of the stock ones do the same as of 1.1

[Apollo13]

I just learned about this game from  KottabosGames  YouTube channel.  I'll start using it today.

In the OP, I noted that you provide templates for your parts.  As a modder myself, I always provide a UV map so players can rebrand and retexture my parts.  You go above and beyond; you even supply Blender .BLEND models.  Kudos to you sir!!  And a Like/Rep-Point in the OP.

[RoverDude]

4 hours ago, Nils277 said:

That sounds to me alot like actually adding similar mechanics (long production chains) like the ones from MKS/OKS. I don't want to open Pandora's box here, because MKS/OKS is very complex and would need a lot other parts as well. To be honest, i don't like the complexity of MKS/OKS, When i want build and optimize production chains a play Anno.  Just my opinion though. 

But don't worry, i will add a way to produce replacement parts. In a way that it does not interfere (too much) with the mechanics of MKS/OKS to both can still be used simultaneously.

I will make the wheels much more robust so they can be used on EVE too. Haven't been to EVE with the new wheels yet, so i didn't know they are not able to work there properly. I will also take care of the fast acceleration at start to make the craft more manoeuvrable.

Actually, I'd recommend just leaving wear off by default (this is how USI-LS comes out of the box).  If someone is using this mod plus MKS, they should really be using the MKS production chains that are already there (and fully supported) - and it's MKS that flips the 'wear' flag.  There's really no need to add extra parts to this mod for an alternate chain, since adding a simpler chain fundamentally breaks MKS and messes with compatibility, and we'd end up module-managing eachother to death

 

4 hours ago, TampaPowers said:

I wouldn't mind just having a single part to convert lots of ElectricCharge and Ore into parts, just felt I should do the proper research.

Yeah... something like this would be pretty much incompatible with UKS - so I would not recommend it (tho it would be compatible with MKS-Lite - it's pretty much the MKS-Lite production chain to MaterialKits).  

[TampaPowers]

The problem is the MKS parts for this are pretty big in comparison and can't be easily connected either. It ends up being a rather complex design process to make the different part sizes and layouts work with one another and it ends up looking a bit out of place. Correct me if I am wrong, but all that is needed is a fabrication module and the workshop to convert the raw resources into MaterialKits. So combining that into one would be viable? All that is left then is another drill for the raw resources.

[RoverDude]

This is probably a discussion that's better for the MKS/UKS thread.  But the very short version is that those constraints - i.e. complex parts (and some of them quite large) are by design. Shrinking it down and bypassing those processes makes the mods incompatible.  It's why I default that switch to OFF... unless you're using UKS, at which point you're opting into the entire gameplay experience (including complex resource chains and the logistical challenge of setting up off-world colonies).  It's kinda the whole point of the mod   So if those constraints are not for you, then I'd recommend using MKS-Lite (in USI land) or just go with a parts pack like KPBS.

 

(edit)

It would be like installing FAR, then asking modders who make plane packs to make their planes behave like stock... under FAR.  Or RemoteTech, but asking a modder to change their antennas to behave like stock.

 

(double edit)

Your note RE how parts hook up... you do realize that one of the main bits of UKS has always been disconnected bases?  The 3.75/2.5 series bits are generally not physically connected (unless you want to via a flex o tube).  So your issue may be a base design one.

Edited April 28, 2016 by RoverDude

[TampaPowers]

I built a complete station for LMO with a vehicle to land and pick up resources to bring back up to that station. I don't want to opt out of the whole deal, I am just trying to negotiate the best solution to keep using both mods along side, since I like them both for what they offer. I suggested putting these two parts together in order to simplify the work on Nils end a bit and I don't see why that would be such a huge issue, it wouldn't bypass the resource chains at all, just combine them into a single part rather than two. Obviously downscaling from the large fabrication module would result in lower production rates. I'm not trying to break UKS and USI for the benefit of making them simpler to use.

EDIT: But I will shut up now, forget that I even asked.

Edited April 28, 2016 by TampaPowers

[DStaal]

I don't really think saying what's probably the best colonization mod and what's probably the best base mod should work together somewhat is out of line.    While disconnected bases work under UKS, they do require some support by the parts to work correctly, and the wear mechanic should really apply to these bases - which implies they should be able to be repaired as well.  I don't think that this mod should replicate the entire resource chain - that would be a lot of work for this specific scenerio, and lead to Nils chasing RoverDude whenever RoverDude tinkered with his supply chain.  On the other hand, saying 'use UKS by itself only' doesn't really fit either.

What I'd think of as a nice middle ground would be something like this (some of this could be done with MM, and I may play around with doing so):

• Have modular containers for MaterialKits and Specialized parts.
• Have the large modular containers (all types) act as warehouses if UKS is installed.
• Have a workshop part/parts.

The first is needed by the third, and basically means the end-resources are available.  The workshop could tie to UKS, OSE's Workshop, and EL, much like UKS's various workshops.  (And also making it so it's not a part being added just for UKS compatibility.)  It also is the part that is needed to support UKS's wear mechanic, the one really problematic mechanic at the moment.  Having containers act as warehouses enables all of UKS's logistics options, enabling disconnected base structures.

This does mean that you can't make a fully Planetary Base Systems base that does the whole production chain - but you do have UKS installed at this point, so using the MK-III modules as the factories with this as more a living space/science base isn't out of line.  (Actually, if you look at it, what the result would be is that this mod would have equivalents of the MK-II modules, which I think fits the design.)

[TampaPowers]

@DStaal essentially what I wanted to convey with my request.

Well this just gave me even more of a reason to go through the modding tutorials and well I decided to build a fabrication module to fit. Still pretty confused, sorry that I imported your model Nils I hope you don't mind.

This is what I have come up with so far. If you want I'll import it into blender and send you the .blend and I can also make a workshop for you.

[MorePortal]

Can you (or somebody else) make ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads mod support? I really like it but I can't take resources from ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads to my base.

Edit

I can, but it isn't looking good for base

Edited April 28, 2016 by MorePortal

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, TampaPowers said:

@DStaal essentially what I wanted to convey with my request.

Well this just gave me even more of a reason to go through the modding tutorials and well I decided to build a fabrication module to fit. Still pretty confused, sorry that I imported your model Nils I hope you don't mind.

This is what I have come up with so far. If you want I'll import it into blender and send you the .blend and I can also make a workshop for you.

Thanks, I was hoping to be clear and not try to propose an overload of changes for anyone. 

My thoughts on your fab module: I'd stick to the normal half-circle form factors for this.  At present, the only parts that don't fit that form factor for this mod are the central command hub, and the cross-section.  The second is a pure structural part, designed just so you can add things in from different sides, and the command hub is a one-off specialty part.  (That you'll never need two of per base.)  It's obvious the main intent of this mod is to have most of the parts be in the half-circle factor, and I'd keep that.

(Of course, I'm not Nils...)

[Mechtech]

personally, as someone who uses this, EPL and USI things, the things I'd like to see most are a Survey Station part (perhaps a tower that can attach to the top of the colony hub?), a Workshop part in the half-circle form-factor, an adapter segment for UKS parts (basically, just an insert with two elevated nodes that end up about the same height as the UKS inflatables) some USI-style container wedges, and a few more drills- maybe one in the cargo wedge formfactor- for things like Karbonite and so on. a few generators wouldn't be unwelcome either- nuclear, Karbonite, whatever.

 

also, had a thought- six-kerbal two-story hab segment with a 'pop-top' rather than the sides. as for the hub, I honestly think a few more parts in the same large formfactor might not be totally out of place- Tampa's fab module looks pretty good, and a nuke reactor would likely look better in that formfactor- maybe even just giving us a mounting plate made from the 'lower section' with a small crew space (three maybe?) and a Command Pod based on the 'upper story' would be best? that way we can mount other mod parts (UKS modules, for example,) without fiddly connections and such.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Mechtech

[Nils277]

@TampaPowers and @DStaal okay, i think i will try to add some sort of (limited) support for/connection to UKS and the wear feature of USI-LS. DStaal has some good ideas and is right, a full support would be a lot of work. Tampapowers,  i will take a look at your parts tomorrow, can't get to a computer right noe. There are templates linked in the OT btw. for all who want to start to create stuff for KPBS. Importing the other models is okay of course too. 

But be warned, this won't be a fast process. I have to make sure to not break anything or outbalance UKS. I have never used it for long, so there is a lot to study. And i don't want to start the module manager war @RoverDude mentioned. 

Additionally there are still many unfinished things (KSPedia, Garage overhaul etc.) and bugs from the 1.1 conversion. And seeing 1.1.1 on the horizon gives me headaches...

@MorePortal Will add at least container for EPL as well. But i can't say for sure when I get the time.

@Mechtech Something like a watchtower? Would be really hard to land but may be possible. Will think about it. 

 

Well...time for bed now. 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Nils277

[TampaPowers]

I'll help you where I can, I am an old Sketchup guy who rarely uses anything else, but I'd be willing to work on the models and once I have gotten used to it, texture them as well. You have created a really well made system of highly modular parts and I absolutely adore modularity I am really looking forward to the future of this mod.

Edited April 28, 2016 by TampaPowers

[Mechtech]

I basically. or a control-tower-y thingamabob. right now I do something along those lines using Nertea's station parts, but more doohickeys is always neat.

honestly, I'd say the best way to support UKS would be to add adapters for the UKS parts, and make a few more segments in the half-circle and cargo wedge formfactor that can be MM-patched to support its functions later- this would have the added bonus that such parts could be patched to support other base mods. I like PBS's 'Camper trailers IN SPAAAACCCEEE!' look, so a few more such modules would bee cool- for example the aforementioned 'pop-top' type, along these lines, for example.

 

also, I may take a look at those templates and fiddle with them a bit, but likely only on the level of mockups and doodles- I'm strictly a dabbler when it comes to modeling for KSP, since I hate Blender's interface (mainly the $#@$%@ camera controls) with a burning passion, and getting things in and out of MAX is a huge production since the freaking companies can't just make their programs play nice with each-other like sane people grumble grumble grumble.

[RoverDude]

@Nils277 - ping me if you have questions, or if you need exact dimensions for adapter plates, etc.

[DStaal]

No problem on the timeframe, @Nils277.  We can wait for your glorious work. 

In the meantime though, I'm trying to learn my way around Module Manager, and I'll be giving a stab at a pure MM version.  (Though once I get it working, if someone wants to create textures we'd have a 'fully working' add-on parts pack.)  My plan is to figure out what needs to be added to enable the logistics, create the MaterialKits and SpecializedParts containers (and probably RocketParts while I'm at it - then we'd have EL as well), and then to dupe the airlocks into workspaces - not a full workshop, really, but a place for Kerbals to store their tools and materials for repairs.  While I'm at it, I'll probably add EL survey station capability to the command hub - which makes it basically the equivalent of UKS's Pioneer module, and would allow you to build from from a pure KPBS base.  (Though without a real workshop, the build will be slow.)

[Mechtech]

I actually have a MM patch along those lines myself- adding proper workshop functions to all the 'stock' K&K parts, as well as a Survey Station/workshop spun off the MK2 hab and a large workshop using the Colony Hub model.

here's a couple of screenshots of my in-progress base on Minmus:

In-situ construction is the boss.

Workshop module in foreground, with two lander pods, a Packrat, and one of the planned Science labs with attached garage.

 

[J.Random]

@Nils277, small bugreport regarding landing legs (not suspension): animation for the underside landing legs seems borked: on deploy, they do nothing for a couple of seconds and then deploy instantly.

[Mechtech]

actually, on further use, I've noticed that Kerbals sometimes have trouble with the airlocks (so far, only noted on the Planetary command segment and the end-cap airlock, though not exhaustively tested,) resulting in the kerbal 'boarding' but with their EVA-self hanging on the outside- going to the space center and back causes the part in question to explode, after which you get a 'failed to load vessel due to missing: unknown part' message for your EVA kerbal. might be weirdness with mods, might be 1.1 issues. not sure.

[DStaal]

7 minutes ago, Mechtech said:

actually, on further use, I've noticed that Kerbals sometimes have trouble with the airlocks (so far, only noted on the Planetary command segment and the end-cap airlock, though not exhaustively tested,) resulting in the kerbal 'boarding' but with their EVA-self hanging on the outside- going to the space center and back causes the part in question to explode, after which you get a 'failed to load vessel due to missing: unknown part' message for your EVA kerbal. might be weirdness with mods, might be 1.1 issues. not sure.

I had that a bit under 1.0.5, then it went away.  (Possibly on a re-create of the ModuleManager cache file.)  Check a bit closer - in my case what was happening was that on *every* part the Kerbal would 'board' the first time asked to, but would stay on EVA.  A second attempt to board would remove their EVA, and put them in the vessel - however the part had to have an open space for them to board the second time.  (They wouldn't actually take up two seats, but they had to have the second seat available for them to attempt to board - boarding at an airlock then was a recipe for frustration, as it prevented them from boarding the vessel.)