[1.1.3] TAC - Life Support v0.12.2 - Release 03 JULY 2016

[damerell]

2 hours ago, Mo3pp3l said:

Shown values of max time before energy runs out is not right handled by TACLS.

Any generated or consumed energy from a part never counts. TACLS has only on math for displaying this values.

This is known. How can TACLS calculate the future energy input from a solar panel? From a fuel cell switched on and off by kOS logic? From a diminishing RTG, where the diminishment algorithm is in another mod?

You'll also find that unfocussed vessels (in KSP in general) do not consume or generate electric charge.

[Mo3pp3l]

On 10.7.2016 at 1:44 PM, Oromis said:

Also, why is electricity always displayed as "infinite"?

 

On 10.7.2016 at 11:31 PM, Phineas Freak said:

Probably because a) the way RO uses Electric Charge (1 EC = 1 kW) leading to very high stored EC values (not unusual for a pod to have more that 20000 units) and b) TACLS not able to handle these values (higher than a specified level == "infinite").

Sorry, missed to quote.

private double CalculateElectricityConsumptionRate(int numCrew, int numParts)
{
return (globalSettings.ElectricityConsumptionRate * numCrew) + (globalSettings.BaseElectricityConsumptionRate * numParts);

} 

Thats the reason.

In RealismOverhaul, all CommandModules have a minimum energyrequest per second and this can TACLS calculate. Fusebox / Kerbalism / AmpYear are good.

There is no reason to calculate the future, but for the moment can all be calculated and displayed

[Oromis]

@Mo3pp3l @damerell Indeed there are a lot of variables, but imho it would be enough to calculate just the amount of time with batteries. And that is a fixed value. Often I can calculate the solar panels or FCs needed, but I'd like to know how much time my vessel can survive without input (e.g. for a lander, for reentry, for dark side of planets...)

[damerell]

6 hours ago, Oromis said:

@Mo3pp3l @damerell Indeed there are a lot of variables, but imho it would be enough to calculate just the amount of time with batteries.

Which TACLS does calculate. You're in a different thread, the one about RO - Mo3pp3l was asking about energy inputs like solars, which TACLS doesn't (and can't) calculate.

[danfarnsy]

Situation update: I've been up to my eyeballs in homework and research (Casimir effect and electrodynamic vacuum in relativity, wee!), but I'm aware of TACLS issues with RO, log spam, and DeepFreeze. Thank you all who have brought those to my attention. I'll address them as I'm able.

[Leonardo_Branco]

By far, the most important and relevant Mod in KSP. Life support was a crucial feature, left aside by the dev team. TAC life support, should have been embedded into the official release like so many others great mods and ideas.
It is true that it represent a significant impact in game design, nonetheless, it don't overcomes the difficulties found to manage fuel supplies, for instance.
I'd like to see more attention given to this important aspect in space exploration in the future of this Amazing game.
Best regards to Taranis Elsu, for the magnificent work and initiative. All compliments and Best Wishes to this great effort to keep this mod alive and running.

[MarlboroMan]

I installed RO and TACLS through ckan. Among a plethora of other mods.

Ckan downloads and installs an additional RO config file "KSP\GameData\ThunderAerospace\TacLifeSupport\PluginData\TacLifeSupport\LifeSupport.cfg"

I am now installing all my mods the manual way.

Can someone please confirm that this config file is the only change i need to make to the standard TacLifeSupport-0.12.2 install when using RO.

Thanks.

[Phineas Freak]

@MarlboroMan yes, the "LifeSupport.cfg" is the only file that RO modifies (replaces) to set the required resource consumption rates.

[MarlboroMan]

Thank you.

edit:

The way you worded that made me think you meant RO modifies the config file itself. I just checked and it indeed does.

I was about to pull the config out of my ckan install and replace it manually but RO sorts it all out when the game starts.

Edited July 27, 2016 by MarlboroMan

[HerrGeneral]

Maybe this isn't the right thread for this- but using RO, Kerbals that are spawned in rescue missions have zero life support resources in their pod- and that means that when you EVA them, they don't have any resources to take with them. Which gives you a three minute time limit to get the rescued Kerbal into your rescue ship, or they die of oxygen starvation. I just lost a Kerbal to this because I tried to use the EVA pack to burn off a little relative velocity- and that Kerbal died less than a meter from the hatch of the rescue ship! One second more and they would have survived.

I understand that they do not require resources until loaded for the first time, but at least giving them some oxygen would be nice.

[MarlboroMan]

Get you rescue ship closer before you eva. 3 minutes is plenty of time. Park your rescue ship 10-20 meters away, to eva that distance should take no more than about 20 seconds.

[DarkonZ]

Howdy all,

Not sure where else to ask this, but I've been a long time fan of TACLS and still use it in my main career game. I've also become fond of Kerbalism but the realism profile (Check Kerbalism mod to understand what I mean) is seriously lacking in LS parts. No mods support this set of Kerbalism rules. What I've done was taken some of the stack-able TACLS parts and converted them for use with Kerbalism realism profile.

What I'd like to know is if I have permission to upload these as a parts pack to something like GitHub. No, this won't be anything like a grand Spacedock or Curse distribution, but rather something I personally did to contribute to Kerbalism. I think I'd only use the model files, and possibly a simple re-texture of the texture files to some funky dark black and white colors. Config files are all my own. Of course, credits would be given where due. Just curious.

[danfarnsy]

Honesty time:

I took up TACLS because I didn't want to see it fall by the wayside, but now I'm in danger of letting it do just that. @James3838 is in a decent position with knowing the code, and he's an actual programmer (unlike me), but I suspect he's still not in a position to take on everything that "owning" a mod entails (it's time consuming). James, please correct me if I'm wrong on that count. So I'm looking for somebody who is in a position to do this mod justice. @JPLRepo, maybe? He's busy too! I just spoke with @NathanKell, and most RO folks are pretty swamped. If there isn't somebody better positioned to pick this up, I'll keep it, but the next update may be a while, and there are already a few outstanding issues with TACLS, not to mention a KSP update just around the corner. I'm relatively confident TACLS will break when 1.2 drops.

That's not to say I can't get around to updating TACLS. But it has needed to be updated for over a month and I haven't done it. That's not cool. Either I need help or somebody to adopt TACLS or I need to suck it up and get it done.

For those who are curious, here's what's going on with me: I'm working on a hard research problem along with my physics coursework, and I've reached the point where I've got some good momentum. I've been looking at the Casimir Effect in different relativistic reference frames, which is a pretty interesting experiment in terms of describing the properties and behavior of the electrodynamic vacuum, and it may provide insight into how the invariance of vacuum properties (like, maybe, local vacuum energy density) correspond to other invariant properties (like the speed of light). The Casimir effect is really cool: if you place two parallel conductive plates at close separation, they impose boundary conditions on the electromagnetic vacuum which results in *less* vacuum energy between the plates than outside them, and the difference in energy pushes the two plates together. Anybody particularly familiar with the Casimir effect understands that the picture is more complicated than that, and that there are also ways to approach it without invoking vacuum states of the electromagnetic vacuum, but that's the basic gist. It really starts to matter at sub-micrometer separations, which makes it important for nanoengineering. So what happens when you are moving with enough velocity with respect to a Casimir effect experimental setup such that the plates now are closer together because of relativistic length contraction? It's not completely straightforward or intuitive, though it's doable enough to find the equation of motion for the plates in the stationary frame and transform the motion. But do you consistently get the same result from transforming the vacuum fields? For instance, the vacuum modes which satisfy the boundary conditions for the Casimir effect transform with counter-propagating waves having opposite Doppler shifts, and they no longer look like standing waves, but they still sum to zero at the boundaries of the (now-moving) cavity. But they now have different frequencies, and the ladder operators for a simple harmonic oscillator don't seem to be describing the same modes anymore, which means the Hamiltonian is no longer that of a simple harmonic oscillator, and the Coulomb gauge usually used in quantizing the fields is violated, so I have to wrap my head around the Gupta-Bleuler condition which takes care of the non-physical timelike and longitudinal polarizations which show up. It's fun, but it's conceptually hard. It's a good thing when you wake up thinking about a hard problem, when your mind drifts to it when you're otherwise "daydreaming" or sitting there with a dumb look on your face, because that's when you make the most progress. That's where I've been lately. When I'm too burned out to think about this problem, I'm also too burned out to work on TACLS, and this problem has been getting all my attention. It's not that I don't have free time. It's that I don't have free focus.

[JPLRepo]

1 hour ago, danfarnsy said:

Honesty time:

I took up TACLS because I didn't want to see it fall by the wayside, but now I'm in danger of letting it do just that. @James3838 is in a decent position with knowing the code, and he's an actual programmer (unlike me), but I suspect he's still not in a position to take on everything that "owning" a mod entails (it's time consuming). James, please correct me if I'm wrong on that count. So I'm looking for somebody who is in a position to do this mod justice. @JPLRepo, maybe? He's busy too! I just spoke with @NathanKell, and most RO folks are pretty swamped. If there isn't somebody better positioned to pick this up, I'll keep it, but the next update may be a while, and there are already a few outstanding issues with TACLS, not to mention a KSP update just around the corner. I'm relatively confident TACLS will break when 1.2 drops.

That's not to say I can't get around to updating TACLS. But it has needed to be updated for over a month and I haven't done it. That's not cool. Either I need help or somebody to adopt TACLS or I need to suck it up and get it done.

<snip> for brevity

In discussions with @danfarnsy - we are working on a solution and setup to go forward with TAC LS.

Edited August 14, 2016 by JPLRepo

[komodo]

@danfarnsy: there is a dilbert quote which can be paraphrased as "what is work when your job is to think?", which sums up a lot of the sciences nicely... I know for myself, in a different field, that even doing unrelated work, there is some back-burner-ing going on constantly. 

Additionally, as someone who only vaguely has heard of the Casimer effect, that was a pretty good explanation; I know enough QM to know that the scope of the problem you are working on sounds gross, and you have a major hat tip/salute for being able to plow into it  (I will take my non-realitivistic QM, that I have to deal with, and be content tyvm  )

oh, TAC; as with all things KSP, and add on authoring in particular: You take care of You first. (I wish they had that in 72 point font at the top of the page sometimes )

[DarkonZ]

Wanna know what I think?

How come it took you three birds almost a month to chirp in here? Well, half a month anyway. Like the wall of text at that.

[JPLRepo]

10 hours ago, DarkonZ said:

Wanna know what I think?

How come it took you three birds almost a month to chirp in here? Well, half a month anyway. Like the wall of text at that.

What exactly are you referring to? Your post from 31 July?
This mod is having a few maintenance issues (as per the three posts and wall of text you are referring to).
From what I gather you are asking for permissions to use art assets from this mod (TACLS) to submit them to another mod (Kerbalism)?
All I can ask is to be patient a week or two longer until we get TACLS back on track and we can talk about what you are wanting to do and what is the right thing to do.
Send me a PM explaining in detail what it is you are wanting to do and let's see what the best way forward is.

For everyone else, I am working with @danfarnsy on oganising the team to maintain and enhance TACLS going forward.
I will be managing the releases and code drops as well as contributing in whatever capacity I have left to code changes (given I already have a lot of my own mods), but I do this because I am a user of TAC LS myself and love to play with it and don't want to see it suffer.
@danfarnsy will be continuing on managing this thread and contributing code changes.
Anyone else willing to contribute - whether that's as a coder, artist or even tester please send me a PM.

Cheers.

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by JPLRepo

[Freshmeat]

I recently picked up TAC-LS, and is extremely pleased with it. Thank you for taking up the torch.

[JPLRepo]

On 28/07/2016 at 10:42 AM, HerrGeneral said:

Maybe this isn't the right thread for this- but using RO, Kerbals that are spawned in rescue missions have zero life support resources in their pod- and that means that when you EVA them, they don't have any resources to take with them. Which gives you a three minute time limit to get the rescued Kerbal into your rescue ship, or they die of oxygen starvation. I just lost a Kerbal to this because I tried to use the EVA pack to burn off a little relative velocity- and that Kerbal died less than a meter from the hatch of the rescue ship! One second more and they would have survived.

I understand that they do not require resources until loaded for the first time, but at least giving them some oxygen would be nice.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/30

On 07/07/2016 at 5:57 AM, Hadleyz said:

Oh. never tought of that. I just tested the TAC with the Deep freeze to see if the issue is still up or not. The testing results confirmed that the frozen kerbal consumes the life support, while in deep freeze, so that DF is useless for now. Just cosmetics. However I did not take off from the launch pad. Thank you for the answer Damerell!

I've merged the fixes for DeepFreeze. Will be fixed in the next version.

On 08/07/2016 at 10:34 PM, spacetackle said:

I Love this mod, thanks for making it!

Looking forward to when it is integrated with stock toolbar  TAC is the last mod I use that still uses blizzys....I allllmost have all the mods lined up and looking pretty in the same spot  

Keep up the great work

https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/31

I've gone through the past 5 or so pages of the thread and added the above issues to GitHub.
The full GitHub list can be found here.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues
If I've missed anything please feel free to add an issue to github.

Edited August 15, 2016 by JPLRepo

[Montieth]

On August 14, 2016 at 0:34 AM, danfarnsy said:

 It's a good thing when you wake up thinking about a hard problem, when your mind drifts to it when you're otherwise "daydreaming" or sitting there with a dumb look on your face, because that's when you make the most progress. That's where I've been lately. When I'm too burned out to think about this problem, I'm also too burned out to work on TACLS, and this problem has been getting all my attention. It's not that I don't have free time. It's that I don't have free focus.

1st. I've been using TAC LS for a decent time on my latest foray into KSP. I was head down with Dwarf Fortress for nearly half a year of free time (when not on other free time things). Now I'm back to a Mun Base and a bunch of other forays around Kerbin to build up resources in a pure science game and using TAC LS for all the stuffs. Enjoying it immensely. Good on you and your helpers for maintaining it to this point. 

As to your thinking issues, have you tried any hobbies that are more physical that leave your mind to wander? Metal working perhaps? Canoeing, something that's fairly repetitive but outside the norm of your normal work. I find when I'm doing those sorts of things or other tasks like wiring an armored car project or something that esoteric though works well. 

[danfarnsy]

18 hours ago, DarkonZ said:

Wanna know what I think?

How come it took you three birds almost a month to chirp in here? Well, half a month anyway. Like the wall of text at that.

Because I saw a squirrel. The wall of text looks less wall-like with a high resolution monitor. More like a picket fence. Regarding your question about permission to use assets for Kerbalism, the TAC-LS license is permissive, but I appreciate you asking. Just make sure you give credit for the original work. If you're using the newer textures from the May release, credit goes to @TMS. I'm also sorry for the delay in replying, and I understand your frustration.

2 hours ago, Montieth said:

As to your thinking issues, have you tried any hobbies that are more physical that leave your mind to wander?

Absolutely! It just wanders to physics problems instead of TACLS problems.

[JPLRepo]

42 minutes ago, danfarnsy said:

Because I saw a squirrel. The wall of text looks less wall-like with a high resolution monitor. More like a picket fence. Regarding your question about permission to use assets for Kerbalism, the TAC-LS license is permissive, but I appreciate you asking. Just make sure you give credit for the original work. If you're using the newer textures from the May release, credit goes to @TMS. I'm also sorry for the delay in replying, and I understand your frustration.

The question I have here that I'd like @DarkonZ to answer is a bit more detail on what function they are supporting? Are they meant to Only function as Kerbalism parts? In which case he is asking to reuse art assets for another mod. Or are they TACLS parts that support Kerbalism functions? As well as TACLS functions? And finally if he has spoken to @ShotgunNinja about this?

[JPLRepo]

TAC LS V0.12.3 is just going through some final testing and I have a few distribution issues to sort out.
Hopefully can get it out in the next day or two. Thanks all for your patience.
Here is the Proposed changelog:

Spoiler

V0.12.3

• Added VAB/SPH Editor Category for TAC LS parts. https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/32
• Added support for Stock Application Launcher Icons (also still supports blizzy Tollbar if that mod is installed), setting in the settings menu at the SpaceCenter can change this.    https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/31  
• Realism Overhaul compatibility fix, moved the LifeSupport.cfg file from the PluginData folder to the TacLifeSupport folder. This allows RO to use Module Manager to change these values. Moved user config and settings values into the persistent save file. This is to reduce the amount of updates on this file. As each time it is updated Module Manager will now rebuild its cache. https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/5
• Removed log spam. https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/27
• Fix DeepFreeze integration. https://github.com/JPLRepo/DeepFreeze/issues/58  
• Copied across the old Wiki to new Repository. https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/wiki
• Internal Code Deployment automation, fixes and changes.

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by JPLRepo

[JPLRepo]

TAC LS V0.12.3.0 Has been relased on GitHub only for today.
Find the link on the NEW NEW thread over here.
I have been speaking with @danfarnsy and will be putting up a SpaceDock, Curseforge and new Forum thread (yep third time is a charm) in the next day or two.
If you are having problems with CKAN metadata please be patient as there are a few things to sort out getting things sync'd up with Spacedock , etc.

Edited August 24, 2016 by JPLRepo

[danfarnsy]

Moderators, I have updated OP to point to JPL's new thread. Can we please lock this one? Thank you!