We absolutely need native VR support!

[jrandom]

Got my HTC Vive yesterday, and one of the things I tried was the Kerbal VR mod. It only works in the cockpit and the head tracking is janky enough (just in Kerbal VR; SteamVR has butter-smooth tracking) that it's pretty  much unusable, but the few minutes of flying in VR shows what huge potential this has for a game like Kerbal.

And not just cockpit mode! Imagine the VAB / SPH with room-scale! You could walk around your vessel, scale yourself up and down, place parts by literally moving them into place with your hands. And flight! From 100% IVA to external ship views with the stars/planet(s) at actual depth with no visual discomfort.

Please please please add native VR support with the proper interface adjustments! It would be the most jaw-dropping gaming experience ever.

Edited August 4, 2016 by jrandom

[Rocket In My Pocket]

User base is too small to make it a priority for starters.

Not to mention how much of the game is spent in 3rd person/Map mode/Building crafts in the VAB/SPH. Good VR experiences tend to be developed from the floor up as VR games, not tacked on as an afterthought.

I doubt this will be seriously considered unless there is a KSP 2 or something.

[jrandom]

I'm telling you, Kerbal is perfect for VR. Not doing it would be incredibly short-sighted and a mistake.

I thought similarly to you until I actually got the thing (because I want to write VR programs). Total convert in seconds. With the Vive's incredible head/controller tracking, this is the gaming of the future. VR costs will only go down and the userbase will only go up. Squad should start adapting now instead of having to scramble later when they realize they're being left behind.

Unity already supports VR. All Squad has to do is make some interface changes for VR mode and they're good to go.

Edited August 4, 2016 by jrandom

[AlamoVampire]

nope. we do not need VR.

[jrandom]

7 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

nope. we do not need VR.

Yes. We. Do. Don't believe me? Go somewhere where you can spend some time on a Vive. I'm not exaggerating, VR changes everything. Especially flight. I know it sounds like I'm some sort of rabid fanboy, and before I actually used VR I too smirked on those singing its praises.

I was very wrong, and they were very right. Games like Kerbal (once there are more games like Kerbal) and games that are open-world adventures are going to go through a revolution.

Last night I sat thousands of miles above the rings of an alien planet with my computer desktop on a massive curved screen in front of me. It's the most sci-fi experience I've ever had. It's not "oh gosh I'm sitting in a painted room". VR gives you perfect depth recreation! And 2nd-gen VR (which should fix the one remaining issue -- resolution) will be the clincher. VR ain't going away this time. The tracking tech was that last hurdle to be jumped, and the Vive delivers.

Edited August 4, 2016 by jrandom

[AlamoVampire]

@jrandom we do not need it. period. there are some people for whom that would be a neurological nightmare with any number of neuro conditions to say the least. Further, there are other things with far higher priority than something trivial like VR. Not everyone runs what you do. its a niche product. sorry, but it is. I cannot believe you are making me say this, but, id sooner see them put in multiplayer than vr, and im staunchly AGAINST Multiplayer for a host of reasons.

[Mjp1050]

7 minutes ago, jrandom said:

Yes. We. Do. Don't believe me? Go somewhere where you can spend some time on a Vive. I'm not exaggerating, VR changes everything. Especially flight. I know it sounds like I'm some sort of rabid fanboy, and before I actually used VR I too smirked on those singing its praises.

Tell me, will it actually be possible to have an intelligent conversation with you, or will you keep trying to shove VR down our throats regardless of what we say?

[AlamoVampire]

@Mjp1050 i think it sadly may be the latter. he seems intent on pushing a pointless novelty on us. more power to the freem drive!

[Vanamonde]

Please don't attack each other over differing opinions about what we'd like to see in the game. 

[jrandom]

I remember when the Kerbal community was all in favor of amazing new things. I'm geeking out about the coolest computer interface gadget I have ever used, bar none. I want other people to be able to experience this!

But nope. You're all combative. Angry. Unfriendly.

I don't understand all the hate. But none of you will even consider the possibility. Okay, fine, I'll just go and you can all laugh and point and whatnot. But if you ever get the chance to use a Vive, just try it out. One minute of your time.

Edited August 4, 2016 by jrandom

[AlamoVampire]

@jrandom With all sincerity, this isnt hate. This is me at the very least being realistic. VR is for this game a frivolity. It is a niche thing for a niche group. This game just isnt suited for it. It makes no sense what so ever for Squad to spend dev cycles on something that is 100% frivolous and fluff. You like VR thats fine, thats cool, but, please understand its just not something we need for this game. Also, please understand that it could potentially require a major rework of the code either just in KSP or just in UNITY or BOTH and thats a quagmire no one wants to wade into. Squad has enough issues on hand with things like cargobays silently rendering things like solar panels and landing gear inoperable after the cargo doors move. Or landing legs exploding when a kerbal walks into them, or any number of other things we as end users are unaware of. Also, think about how many mods this game has, would you deign to ask the makers and maintainers of those mods to put time into making their mods work with VR?  I respect your enthusiasm, I really do.

[KerrMü]

A few weeks ago I was given the oportunity to test the Vive for a few hours. I couldnt get KSP to run with it, but I tested 2 flight simulators and a space demo. And it was awesome (!).

I agree, that there are lots of higher priorities, and I´d like to see many other features and additions to the game before VR support. BUT in a far future, I would be more than happy to float beneath my spacestation in VR.

Edited August 4, 2016 by KerrMü

[Alshain]

1 hour ago, jrandom said:

I remember when the Kerbal community was all in favor of amazing new things. I'm geeking out about the coolest computer interface gadget I have ever used, bar none. I want other people to be able to experience this!

But nope. You're all combative. Angry. Unfriendly.

I don't understand all the hate. But none of you will even consider the possibility. Okay, fine, I'll just go and you can all laugh and point and whatnot. But if you ever get the chance to use a Vive, just try it out. One minute of your time.

The honest truth is that VR development is a large undertaking (maybe*) and the user base is very small.  This could change in the future, though my personal feeling is that it is a fad largely due to the fact that it is so cost prohibitive.  Regardless, you can't expect a lot of companies to jump on board with something that doesn't have the audience to justify the development.  Either it has to be very simple to develop or it has to have a very lucrative audience, and all evidence on VR says it is neither.

*Supposedly Unity 5 supports VR which may in fact make it much more trivial to implement than it seems.  This of course depends on what it takes on the KSP side to implement it as well.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Alshain

[AlamoVampire]

just saw something, and its a MAJOR reason to NOT have the vive as a thing for KSP. its price tag. 799.99 USD.....

[StahnAileron]

[RANT]First off, it kinda irks me a bit these days when someone, anyone, in any game forum, makes a suggestion that starts with "WE NEED ____!" like it's an obvious given. Unless there's been a very vocal call for something within a decent chunk of a community or the feature is actually required to make the game worthwhile, it's not a "need", it's a "want". And it's not a communal "want", it's an individual opinion and want. I wish people would be more truthful and realistic about this and just flat out state, "I want..." or, "I would like it if..." or anything else that doesn't try to hide their selfishness behind a veneer of supposed and implied consensus.[/RANT]

Anyway, while VR would be a magical experience in KSP (especially with a nice graphical overhaul pack like AVP, Scatterer, and EVE), I would never call it a need. I play KSP exclusively in third person. VR would be most beneficial to IVA players. Also, KSP is supposed to be a commercial release now and it's STILL in heavy development. (When was the last time you saw a commercial game released that gets a complete engine rewrite starting a year later? And I say KSP isn't even really a game yet, not in the typical sense.)

SQUAD has enough problems on their plate. If VR comes to KSP natively, I'd rather they do it for like KSP2 or KSP3 where it can be planned for from the beginning rather than "hacked in" after the fact. KSP is already sorely lacking in a multitude of areas. Let's flesh out and fix what's already there rather than promote feature-creep.

Edited August 4, 2016 by StahnAileron

[Red Iron Crown]

18 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

User base is too small to make it a priority for starters.

This.

Cool as VR for KSP might potentially be, until it is a mainstream tech out of the "expensive early adoption" phase it would be awfully hard to justify spending development resources that only benefit a tiny fraction of the player base.

I'm not wholly convinced it will ever be a non-niche product, but time will tell on that.

[pandaman]

NEED VR on KSP?  No definitely not. Really cool and nice to have?  No doubt. But really low on the priority list st the moment for all the reasons given before. 

Much as can understand the 'Wow factor' of the new toy I think @jrandom is being 'a bit over enthusiastic' with promoting the idea and unfortunately it's just not reflecting well. 

[THX1138]

Why can't you just use Steam VR?

[foamyesque]

KSP VR could be amazing, but I look at all the other issues (graphical and otherwise) that exist in the current game, and I've got to say I'm not convinced it should be made a priority over fixing bugs and optimizations that -- in some cases -- have needed attention for years.

[juanml82]

A KSP like game tailored for VR could be awesome.

But it needs a completely revamped UI, as well as a graphics overhaul. IVA only works in some cockpits - the initial MK1 lander has only a tiny window unconviniently located - There is no way the graphics from that would be enticing, even if the UI is revamped so flying solely in IVA is possible - you need to redesign all the landing pods so you can actually get a beautiful view through the windows.

Then you need a  way to bring in the orbital view without breaking immersion. In a similar thread to this one, I wrote about making it part of a mission control environment - so you feel you are inside the mission control room, the orbital view is the screen in front of you, but if you look to the sides, you find other kerbals doing other mission related stuff, or maybe drinking coffee, procrastinating or a mix of both. And maybe their consoles - which you can switch to - change to other views, like a mechjeb control window, the tracking station, a KAC window. Kind of a Raster Prop Monitor but inside the mission control room instead of the cockpit.

 

But, as others said, the user base is still to small and this is the studio which launched KSP for consoles with a GUI designed to be used with a mouse and keyboard instead of a joystick.

[cubinator]

So if Squad doesn't have the time for it, how hard would it be for someone to make it a mod?  This is by no means a request, I just want to know from a modder who's familiar with KSP's code and Unity's VR tools how hard the technical hurdles everyone's been so uppity about really are to overcome.

In the meantime, you can just run it in desktop mode in SteamVR.  Not quite like being in the cockpit, but it sure is a huge screen! 

Edited August 5, 2016 by cubinator

[StahnAileron]

VR is one of those things you can't just "mod in". There's a reason why Oculus, SteamVR, and Sony have taken so long to get the tech out and studios are taking their time to dev for VR. If you don't do it well (or worse, wrong), you risk actually making people physically sick (vertigo). This is why you need to PLAN VR for a game, not just hack it in after the fact. There's the UI to deal with, sure, but I'd rather my user experience (UX) not include nausea, headaches, disorientation, and/or vomiting.

SQUAD is amateur game dev (yes, admit it). They barely have KSP is a reliably functional state, and even then they need to refactor practically the whole thing. (I've never heard of a game that got an engine refactor that wasn't a re-release or port of some type.) And while the "sim" aspect is mostly fine, the "game" aspect is lacking (mainly missing, superficial at best). Do you really think they'd be able to get VR done right? (Never mind a mod that doesn't have low-level access to the engine?)

One game to date has given me mild vertigo: Descent 3. I'd rather not go through that (especially if I had to spend several hundred dollars on hardware to do it.) Leave VR for a later time, when both the devs, market, and industry have matured a bit. (Assuming it stays around long enough instead of going the way of something like 3D TVs.)

[garemoko]

I got a Vive this week and played VR minecraft (via a mod) last night and I'm convinced that kerbal would be amazing in VR.

Building ships and being able to walk around and place on parts would be amazing and give a lot more precision than current controls.

Flying and being able to walk around your ship to see it in all angles would be cool and EVA would be amazing.

I'd definitely be willing to pay for this as an extra. 

[Arugela]

I wouldn't be suprprised if VR became mainstream. If and when/if biometrics and other things become common security I bet anything that can collect that biometrics remotely and potentially secretly will become common. Or that is my hunch. So I won't personally be surprised if it became standard this time! >< Let alone anything else personal physical data could be used for. Like watching the eyes to collect info on what ones likes more accurately for advertising. Given what selling add info is like I bet you anything they watch your eye movements and use it for things you don't want them to. It's the one reason I will probably never use VR...

[Greenfire32]

As someone who own a Rift, I can tell you that we NEED VR in KSP. But not "need" so much as in the "we NEED this to survive" sense and more of a "I NEED this to complete me" sense.

So I guess I don't really NEED it, but I really really really really really really WANT it.