adjustable landing gear

[Climberfx]

On 1/14/2017 at 6:10 AM, DoctorDavinci said:

Essentially no, no news

As it stands, none of us have the original models which makes it extremely difficult to get ALG working, just like it would be difficult to repair a punctured bicycle tire without a repair kit or a new tube ... ALG will need to be created from scratch at worst or at best by an extremely convoluted mess of reverse engineering each part through 2 or 3 different programs in succession just to get the parts configured properly then reimporting them back into Unity to start the actual work of getting them to work in game

There have been whispers of a recreation project for ALG by other modders in the community, however it is in its infancy and I wouldn't expect anything to come of it in the immediate future 

That is all ......

No man. I have the models, and any one could have it. Just download the mod and use the Blender .mu to .what ever 3d you want. I convert it to fix and use in Maya.

In my comprehension, the only part that need to have it woking is the plugin for adjust the legs. For the wheels function  i believe KSP wheels is a great option.

I use it myself on my mod.

But they are already working on this to have it working on 1.2.2, as was told me. I may help on it too.

So, be patient.

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Climberfx

[DoctorDavinci]

2 hours ago, Climberfx said:

No man. I have the models, and any one could have it. Just download the mod and use the Blender .mu to .what ever 3d you want. I convert it to fix and use in Maya.

In my comprehension, the only part that need to have it woking is the plugin for adjust the legs. For the wheels function  i believe KSP wheels is a great option.

I use it myself on my mod.

But they are already working on this to have it working on 1.2.2, as was told me. I may help on it too.

So, be patient.

 

You have the original part and animation files?

You've already seen this but I'll just leave this here ......

If it was easy it would have been done by now .... if it is easy then why haven't you got ALG working?

Edited January 15, 2017 by DoctorDavinci

[Climberfx]

4 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

You have the original part and animation files?

You've already seen this but I'll just leave this here ......

If it was easy it would have been done by now .... if it is easy then why haven't you got ALG working?

I don't said it is easy to do ALG working, i said that everyone can download the plugin for blender, download the old mod, and convert the .mu models into editable 3d models. And i said that just to let you know that the models are there, no one need to redo the 3D, but need the plugin to work.

The thing that they are working on, is to have ALG as a plugin working on. Like the adjustable angles, suspensions, and stuff, that is no easy, but too can be easy for some that no what to do. 

Cheers

Edited January 15, 2017 by Climberfx

[DoctorDavinci]

27 minutes ago, Climberfx said:

I don't said it is easy to do ALG working, i said that everyone can download the plugin for blender, download the old mod, and convert the .mu models into editable 3d models. And i said that just to let you know that the models are there, no one need to redo the 3D, but need the plugin to work.

The thing that they are working on, is to have ALG as a plugin working on. Like the adjustable angles, suspensions, and stuff, that is no easy, but too can be easy for some that no what to do. 

Cheers

Who are you referring to? ... who is this 'they' you speak of?

If you mean the BDAc team, we are not working on it due to the issues I stated above and earlier in this thread

And if you are referring to shadowmage, perhaps read the thread for his physics based wheel API and you will see that it was made clear the if work were to be done in regards to ALG that the parts would be similar to ALG's but not of ALG as well as being released under the KF mod ... let alone it is an 'if' not 'is' as well as being clearly stated that 'if' it were to be worked on that it will not be in the immediate future 

Those who know what to do and are skilled enough to do it have made it clear that reverse engineering ALG parts is a huge undertaking and have also stated that it would be easier to recreate ALG from scratch

Please stop spreading misinformation in regards to ALG ... you do not have the original models nor the original animations and posting that anyone can download them is simply not true since the only person with the original assets is Baha himself

That is all ......

Edited January 15, 2017 by DoctorDavinci

[Climberfx]

51 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Who are you referring to? ... who is this 'they' you speak of?

If you mean the BDAc team, we are not working on it due to the issues I stated above and earlier in this thread

And if you are referring to shadowmage, perhaps read the thread for his physics based wheel API and you will see that it was made clear the if work were to be done in regards to ALG that the parts would be similar to ALG's but not of ALG as well as being released under the KF mod ... let alone it is an 'if' not 'is' as well as being clearly stated that 'if' it were to be worked on that it will not be in the immediate future 

Those who know what to do and are skilled enough to do it have made it clear that reverse engineering ALG parts is a huge undertaking and have also stated that it would be easier to recreate ALG from scratch

Please stop spreading misinformation in regards to ALG ... you do not have the original models nor the original animations and posting that anyone can download them is simply not true since the only person with the original assets is Baha himself

That is all ......

Man, don't disrespect me. I'm here to help.

So, you told this:

"...none of us have the original models which makes it extremely difficult to get ALG working"

That is not true. As i said, you can have the model back. So, the model is not the problem. The dll, the plugin is.

And i know the originals are from the creator, as i know the license it uses, let it free to us to edit and remix, just give him the attribution (CC Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported), but i am not doing anything with it. Just letting you know the models can be converted and used in any 3D program.

I don't remember with who i was talking about, but i know there is a group that is woking on it, and other stuff, and even this person, ask me if i could help, because he know i'm on the 3D part mod (other things, like Omicron). I'm locking into my conversations to find his name and the conversation, so you can see i'm not spreading lies and never would do that, neither create histories about what i don't know.

So keep the respect man!

 

edit: My talk was with Papa_Joe, he is a great guy. If you follow this link, you will see in his signature the mention for Advanced Landing Gears+.

 

Edit 2:

And here are the link to Blender plugins that convert .mu in 3D formats.

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Climberfx

[sebi.zzr]

Ok,i'm going to drop this here.
I've been using ALG with help from KSPWheel.They are not "out of the box" working,because they still need some in game adjustments,but they suit me well.These patches are for big and medium landing gears,because the little one is too bugged out.
If someone would like to try it out:

Spoiler

@PART[BD_Adj_LG_Medium]
{
!MODULE[FSwheelAlignment]
{
}
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBase
 wheelColliderName = wheelColliderFix
 wheelColliderOffset = 0
 wheelRadius = 0.18
 wheelMass = 0.11
 boundsColliderName = bounds
 suspensionTravel = 0.8
 suspensionTarget = 0.3
 loadRating = 2
 minLoadRating = 1
 maxLoadRating = 16
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelRotation
 wheelMeshName = WheelModel
 rotationAxis = 0, 0, -1
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBrakes
 maxBrakeTorque = 12
 brakeResponse = 2
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelSteering
 wheelColliderName = wheelColliderFix
 steeringName = wheelFix
 maxSteeringAngle = 20
 steeringAxis = 0, 0, 1
 steeringResponse = 10
 }
}

@PART[BD_Adj_LG_Large]
{
!MODULE[FSwheelAlignment]
{
}
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBase
 wheelColliderName = wheelColliderFix
 wheelColliderOffset = 0
 wheelRadius = 0.28
 wheelMass = 0.2
 boundsColliderName = bounds
 suspensionTravel = 0.54
 suspensionTarget = 0.3
 loadRating = 3
 minLoadRating = 1
 maxLoadRating = 16
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelRotation
 wheelMeshName = rearWheelModel
 rotationAxis = 1, 0, 0
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelRotation
 wheelMeshName = frontWheelModel
 rotationAxis = 1, 0, 0
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBrakes
 maxBrakeTorque = 12
 brakeResponse = 2
 }
}

What you need in addition for patches to work:
KSPWheel
Module Manager
BDAnimationModules

On another note.The only dependency for AGL to work is BDAnimationModules (FSBDwheel) and while they work on their own just fine,the thing they are missing is working wheelcollider.So my question here is.I know the FSBDwheel is based from firespitters FSwheel and all FSwheels are somehow working,without model changing,wouldn't be just enough to fix the plugin,at least te FSBDwheel part?

[steedcrugeon]

7 hours ago, sebi.zzr said:

So my question here is.I know the FSBDwheel is based from firespitters FSwheel and all FSwheels are somehow working,without model changing,wouldn't be just enough to fix the plugin,at least te FSBDwheel part?

From what I understand, in the little I have managed to read up on the on-going ALG saga, the problem actually lies around wheel colliders. I believe the crux of this issues (at least were 1.2.x is concerned) is that with the change to Unity, the already buggy wheel colliders from the original ALG are now completely unusable.

The BDanimations have been recompiled for 1.2.2 (done on a Github fork) but with the proviso that, in the case of FSBDwheel, it was just tweaked to get rid of the error, not to actually see if it worked. [the recompiler uses most of the other animation module, not FSBDwheel I think].

Back to the point, the plugin may not really be the issue which then gets us back to the sticky situation of wheel colliders (which have always worked so nicely for KSP...) and parenting. With the fundamental difference being however wheel colliders were written in the original BD ALG (using unity 4) against the present KSP (using Unity 5).

@Climberfx The .mu exporter is a very powerful and useful plugin to blender. You are correct in that it gives anyone a chance to reverse engineer parts others have made, but I have to agree with @DoctorDavinci that it is only part of a solution. Some information is not present or gets lost during either the export from unity the first time around or re-importing in blender. It often not, much, maybe a empty game object here or the parenting of a nested object is changed (lets not even get started of where emissive animations go...) This make 'remodelling' of the ALG parts very difficult as the FSBDwheel structure (or at least how I perceive it from the reading I have done) is subtly different from stock to begin with when it was working. In BD's Github rep's you can get a sense of how some of the models were constructed but (as previously stated) without the original models it can be difficult to comprehend exactly how to implement the child'ing and more importantly, the animations.

My knowledge of KSP does not extend as far back as most on here, so apologies if I have misunderstood any of the information I have been able to garner from the forum, the API and the Github repo's.

[Climberfx]

8 hours ago, sebi.zzr said:

Ok,i'm going to drop this here.
I've been using ALG with help from KSPWheel.They are not "out of the box" working,because they still need some in game adjustments,but they suit me well.These patches are for big and medium landing gears,because the little one is too bugged out.
If someone would like to try it out:

  Reveal hidden contents

@PART[BD_Adj_LG_Medium]
{
!MODULE[FSwheelAlignment]
{
}
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBase
 wheelColliderName = wheelColliderFix
 wheelColliderOffset = 0
 wheelRadius = 0.18
 wheelMass = 0.11
 boundsColliderName = bounds
 suspensionTravel = 0.8
 suspensionTarget = 0.3
 loadRating = 2
 minLoadRating = 1
 maxLoadRating = 16
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelRotation
 wheelMeshName = WheelModel
 rotationAxis = 0, 0, -1
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBrakes
 maxBrakeTorque = 12
 brakeResponse = 2
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelSteering
 wheelColliderName = wheelColliderFix
 steeringName = wheelFix
 maxSteeringAngle = 20
 steeringAxis = 0, 0, 1
 steeringResponse = 10
 }
}

@PART[BD_Adj_LG_Large]
{
!MODULE[FSwheelAlignment]
{
}
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBase
 wheelColliderName = wheelColliderFix
 wheelColliderOffset = 0
 wheelRadius = 0.28
 wheelMass = 0.2
 boundsColliderName = bounds
 suspensionTravel = 0.54
 suspensionTarget = 0.3
 loadRating = 3
 minLoadRating = 1
 maxLoadRating = 16
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelRotation
 wheelMeshName = rearWheelModel
 rotationAxis = 1, 0, 0
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelRotation
 wheelMeshName = frontWheelModel
 rotationAxis = 1, 0, 0
 }
 MODULE
 {
 name = KSPWheelBrakes
 maxBrakeTorque = 12
 brakeResponse = 2
 }
}

What you need in addition for patches to work:
KSPWheel
Module Manager
BDAnimationModules

On another note.The only dependency for AGL to work is BDAnimationModules (FSBDwheel) and while they work on their own just fine,the thing they are missing is working wheelcollider.So my question here is.I know the FSBDwheel is based from firespitters FSwheel and all FSwheels are somehow working,without model changing,wouldn't be just enough to fix the plugin,at least te FSBDwheel part?

I think that is the spirit.

[DrLicor]

@Climberfx, it's not that simple as just import things into blender, as @steedcrugeon stated perfectly, things get lost. A .mu file has a whole other structure and code and often it only gives you the outside. things get welded or groups get lost. That's why we don't have the orginal files. If we could get the orginal models before they where transported into unity. We could begin from a much better 'cratch'.
You add colliders in unity, at least that's what I do, So when you load the old unity file into blender, and load it back into the current unity, things get really messed up. At least that's what I expect what will happen.

I don't know if you are a bit familiair with other 3d programs. For instance sketchup, autocad etc.. You can import a cad file into blender and sketchup, but they change. Certain information that is used by the hosted program cannot be written in the new file.

 

The best solution would be if we could somehow get the orginal files, I don't know where it's made in, could be blender, but there are much more programs.
We could go further with the current files, but I think we can expect lot of more work and bugs.
It's indeed true that @Papa_Joe claimed to repair (and maintain) this mod, but his signature says '_TM', and we all know what that means.
However, this is up to him, since he has a lot of other amazing mods to maintain.

@sebi.zzr, thanks! I will try them when I home  

[Climberfx]

 

Well, i did, for study purposes, used .mu blender converter and imported Stock gears and Alg parts, reconvert it to FBX, studied its structure in Maya, got the idea, how it works from Stock and ALG parts, than made my own from scratch, and configured it on Unity, then dig some of how i could use it with KSPWheels, and done. It is working.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Climberfx

[steedcrugeon]

That is impressive stuff @Climberfx. You are a far smarter man than I it seems (not hard to be honest). 

Although, this now puts you in the best position to update the ALG or even distribute your own? 

[Climberfx]

33 minutes ago, steedcrugeon said:

That is impressive stuff @Climberfx. You are a far smarter man than I it seems (not hard to be honest). 

Although, this now puts you in the best position to update the ALG or even distribute your own? 

Still need a solution to the "adjustable" part of ALG. KSPWheels is super, but still didn't see anything on it that approach what ALG did, the adjustable part. Where you can incline the wheels axis and keep wheels parallel relative to the ground. But, i may be wrong on this one, gonna talk with @Papa_Joe and @Shadowmage and see what i can help with. But i can say, the ALG models don't need basically anything, i can just convert it, adjust some axis, and it's done. (if it keep same logic of construction with this others plugins/mods).

Edited January 16, 2017 by Climberfx

[Shadowmage]

Indeed, KSPWheels does not (yet) support the features of ALG -- those features would need custom plugin support, and would really only be usable by the parts in ALG (most stock/mod models are not intended to be adjustable...).

If @blowfish doesn't get them working with the B9/BD modules, I'll look into adding the features to KSPWheel / KerbalFoundries.  Probably still a few months out though before there would be anything usable.

[Papa_Joe]

Awesome stuff!

 

I will be getting an SM update completed soon (less than a week).  I will then have more time to spend on coding.  It has been a very eventful 8 months for me.  Death of my wife, meeting a new love, moving, marriage, and separations.

Many changes and much to be thankful for!

I will get into ALG very soon folks.  thanks for the patience.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Papa_Joe

[sebi.zzr]

26 minutes ago, Papa_Joe said:

 thanks for the patience.

And we thank you,just look at your repository.No need to explain yourself.

[blowfish]

4 hours ago, Papa_Joe said:

I will get into ALG very soon folks.  thanks for the patience.

Just curious, what was what was your plan for tackling this?  After messing with the B9 gear which are set up similarly, I'm fairly confident that ALG can be converted to KSPWheel, but it will involve a fair number of code changes (probably even a few to KSPWheel itself).  I would hate to duplicate effort here, even as far as researching goes.

Edited January 16, 2017 by blowfish

[Papa_Joe]

13 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Just curious, what was what was your plan for tackling this?  After messing with the B9 gear which are set up similarly, I'm fairly confident that ALG can be converted to KSPWheel, but it will involve a fair number of code changes (probably even a few to KSPWheel itself).  I would hate to duplicate effort here, even as far as researching goes.

I've not gotten far enough to formulate plans Still need to look at the code.  I'll be happy to contact you and or anyone involved when I do and we can coordinate.  I don't want to duplicate effort either.  I also do not want to work in a vacuum.

Edit:  as you can see above, I've been in communication with ClimberFX and that is when he took a look at ALG as part of creating his own landing gear.  I think between the many talented folks in this community, we can revive ALG, and/or fold it into KSPWheel.  I'll be there soon.  only 2 items left on the hit list for SM...

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Papa_Joe

[Papa_Joe]

it would appear that @Shadowmage has done the heavy lifting and made ALG a part of Kerbal Foundries.  I'm watching this to see if there is any thing I will need to do for ALG.  This may be the replacement for ALG.  Link:

 

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Papa_Joe

[iplayksp]

On 1/22/2017 at 4:16 PM, Papa_Joe said:

it would appear that @Shadowmage has done the heavy lifting and made ALG a part of Kerbal Foundries.  I'm watching this to see if there is any thing I will need to do for ALG.  This may be the replacement for ALG.  Link:

 

 

hey would you mind fixing this craft really all it needs is adj / kerbal foundries it was made by bahamutod https://kerbalx.com/bahamutod/FJ105-D2

Edited January 24, 2017 by iplayksp