[Minimum KSP version - 1.12] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) v1.29

[DeadJohn]

I was trying to add Clamp-O-Tron Docking Ports (the stock 1.25m port) to an existing station. I pressed H and clicked the mouse to attach, but after the usual KIS 1/2 second pause things immediately blew up. I've added ports many times before and never had an issue. Reloading the game made no difference.

I found a workaround but still don't know what triggered the problem. Here's some anecdotal info in case anyone has suggestions, or encounters a similar problem.

1. The F3 status messages always began with some station part and my engineer having a fatal collision, then a bunch of joints failing, and most parts getting destroyed not just detached. It wasn't always the same part. Maybe KSP thought parts collided after attaching the port which then set the station spinning wildly into destruction. The problem acted the same way whether the engineer was on a ladder or floating while doing the KIS.
2. The smaller junior docking port could be attached to the same exact nodes without problems. I wonder if the long "tail" on the back of the 1.25m port contributed to the problem. Putting the 1.25m port on the node backwards, with the tail facing out of the station, was safe. It's unusable for docking that way but it never exploded.
3. I was originally pulling the ports (the junior as well as 1.25m) from a KAS container (ISC-6K small 2.5m container). I finally got past the disassembly by not taking the 1.25m port directly from the container. Instead, I installed the junior from the container and surface attached it, then dragged the 1.25m port from the container and attached it to the junior, then finally moved the 1.25m port from the junior to its destination node.
4. While testing, I changed every Kerbal Joint Reinforcement setting to see what happened. I got the same disassembly behavior regardless of KJR settings. I found the #3 workaround before getting to the step of uninstalling KJR.
5. My most recent mod addition is Orbital Utility Vehicle Updated. That includes some tug docking ports but even when I undocked the tug from the station the explosions were still happening. #3 worked while the tug was connected.

Here's my current log, after many explosions and reloads, and after the workaround. https://drive.google.com/file/d/18FDKZQyhYcal5bHViDL0jBFce6VWVtWU/view?usp=sharing

[Tonka Crash]

@DeadJohn Do you still have a KSP.log with the problem.  Many of us prefer it over the player.log

[DeadJohn]

15 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

@DeadJohn Do you still have a KSP.log with the problem.  Many of us prefer it over the player.log

Fortunately yes. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jmd-MZcIEalJ9rTIWsdbqnIUyCk3RRI0/view?usp=sharing

The log spans 2 days so timestamps reset to 00:00 along the way. There's an an occurrence of the exploding shortly after I reloaded quicksave #166. Several saves before and/or after should also show issues, but I did so much saving and reloading that I lost track. My engineer using KIS was Anbo Kerman.

[LOG 18:00:47.059] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'dockingPort2'
[LOG 18:00:47.168] Event Stumble not assigned to state Ragdoll
<<Event Stumble message repeats, 10 times total>>
[LOG 18:00:47.176] kerbalEVAfemale (Anbo Kerman) Exploded!! - blast awesomeness: 0

 

[Tonka Crash]

@DeadJohn  I've attached the stock docking port to nodes directly out of KIS storage without issues in 1.9.1. I think you have a mod interaction issue and you will need to figure out what's causing it. The typical way is to back up your entire game tree then start deleting mods until you find the one causing the problem.

I do have a guess, but I don't use SSPE myself and have never seen this problem. In GameData/StationPartsExpansionRedux/Patches/SSPXr-StockPartReplacements.cfg try commenting out the section on dockingport2.  It's putting a B9Partswitch option on the dockingport.  It may be doing something bad when you attach it directly out of KIS storage.

Edit to add: one of the reason I think it's a mod interaction issue is there actually aren't any errors being logged around the issue.  Something about the docking port is different and the B9PS switch is one thing I could see.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Tonka Crash

[One eyed Smile]

Spoiler

 

Hi. I started a fresh save with kis/kas. However, whenever i try to put something in the container, the part won't go in the inventory. They just gets placed behind the inventory panel. I don't have any other mods installed other than kis/kas, on 1.9.1 with both DLCs. I installed it using ckan, tried reverting module manager to previous version, but doesn't work.

 

Here's my player.log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cctd5dlak7m86lb/Player.log?dl=0

 

I'm super dumb. All i had to do was drag the parts in. Not click it in. Sorry if i bothered you. ignore this.

Edited July 9, 2020 by One eyed Smile
I'm dumb

[IgorZ]

@DeadJohn FYI, dragging a part directly from container to attach it, or dropping it on the surface first, and then moving, is a big difference (it's a long story). So, in general, if you have troubles with the parts pulled out from the container, try dropping them on the surface or leaving them floating around if you're on orbit. Then, grab and attach. A part that is dropped on the surface becomes a separate vessel, so Kraken either eats it immediately or doesn't touch it at all. And if you still see issues, then the problem is likely in the mods conflict.

One more question to you: does your vessel have wheels or legs? Believe it or not, but it's a big deal.

2 hours ago, One eyed Smile said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hi. I started a fresh save with kis/kas. However, whenever i try to put something in the container, the part won't go in the inventory. They just gets placed behind the inventory panel. I don't have any other mods installed other than kis/kas, on 1.9.1 with both DLCs. I installed it using ckan, tried reverting module manager to previous version, but doesn't work.

 

Here's my player.log

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cctd5dlak7m86lb/Player.log?dl=0

 

I'm super dumb. All i had to do was drag the parts in. Not click it in. Sorry if i bothered you. ignore this.

No worries. It can happen to anyone. In fact, being dumb is kind of the point of this game   I recall my first attempts to get on orbit in the manual mode...

[DeadJohn]

6 hours ago, IgorZ said:

...One more question to you: does your vessel have wheels or legs? Believe it or not, but it's a big deal.

The source shuttle carrying the KAS container had landing gear wheels. The destination station for the docking ports had no wheels nor legs.

During testing, the shuttle and station were sometimes docked and sometimes weren't. When I found my workaround (#3 above), I think the station was separated in 2 parts, and both parts were docked to the shuttle; it was all one big craft at that point.

[etmoonshade]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:40 PM, DeadJohn said:

I was trying to add Clamp-O-Tron Docking Ports (the stock 1.25m port) to an existing station. I pressed H and clicked the mouse to attach, but after the usual KIS 1/2 second pause things immediately blew up. I've added ports many times before and never had an issue. Reloading the game made no difference.

I found a workaround but still don't know what triggered the problem. Here's some anecdotal info in case anyone has suggestions, or encounters a similar problem.

1. The F3 status messages always began with some station part and my engineer having a fatal collision, then a bunch of joints failing, and most parts getting destroyed not just detached. It wasn't always the same part. Maybe KSP thought parts collided after attaching the port which then set the station spinning wildly into destruction. The problem acted the same way whether the engineer was on a ladder or floating while doing the KIS.
2. The smaller junior docking port could be attached to the same exact nodes without problems. I wonder if the long "tail" on the back of the 1.25m port contributed to the problem. Putting the 1.25m port on the node backwards, with the tail facing out of the station, was safe. It's unusable for docking that way but it never exploded.
3. I was originally pulling the ports (the junior as well as 1.25m) from a KAS container (ISC-6K small 2.5m container). I finally got past the disassembly by not taking the 1.25m port directly from the container. Instead, I installed the junior from the container and surface attached it, then dragged the 1.25m port from the container and attached it to the junior, then finally moved the 1.25m port from the junior to its destination node.
4. While testing, I changed every Kerbal Joint Reinforcement setting to see what happened. I got the same disassembly behavior regardless of KJR settings. I found the #3 workaround before getting to the step of uninstalling KJR.
5. My most recent mod addition is Orbital Utility Vehicle Updated. That includes some tug docking ports but even when I undocked the tug from the station the explosions were still happening. #3 worked while the tug was connected.

Here's my current log, after many explosions and reloads, and after the workaround. https://drive.google.com/file/d/18FDKZQyhYcal5bHViDL0jBFce6VWVtWU/view?usp=sharing

I'm having a similar RUD on my station. I've browsed my KSP.log, and I can't find a smoking gun - I try to node-attach something (an octo-truss, from Near Future Construction, IIRC) and suddenly I get a crash. It looks like Unity's making a save with the aftermath, which involves poor Bill on a trajectory with a time to Apoapsis roughly around the heat death of the universe. Good thing I made a quicksave!

Oddly, the octo-truss hub attaches fine - it's only crashing when I try to attach the long truss itself to that. I'm about to play a bit with the attachment order - one thing I noticed is that placing something on the hub ends up with it flat against another object (an asteroid miner from the Hangar mod, specifically.) It might be overlapping the collision boxes a little bit, and freaking out because of the physics pause when attaching anything via KIS? That's just speculation though - I'll see if I can get something reproducible going.

Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/svmx7y8z1ch43q3/KSP 20200713.log?dl=0

Pre and Post Save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jz3mnsyym3e026y/Saves 20200713.zip?dl=0

(note, this save is very heavily modded. I don't expect it to be useful, but I'm including them just in case.)

[Tonka Crash]

@etmoonshade Maybe @IgorZ will have something else to say, but KIS has some issues with 1.10. This may just be another symptom.  I tested 1.10 when it came out with my modded install and went back to 1.9.1 to wait for mods to catch up.

[etmoonshade]

1 hour ago, Tonka Crash said:

@etmoonshade Maybe @IgorZ will have something else to say, but KIS has some issues with 1.10. This may just be another symptom.  I tested 1.10 when it came out with my modded install and went back to 1.9.1 to wait for mods to catch up.

Okay, my bad - I didn't gather that it was specifically a 1.10 issue when reading a few pages back.

I've been doing a bit of work, and I've actually got some reproduction steps with a minimal set of mods:

• Install KIS and Near Future Construction
• Install this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nm4m1rn8df0prna/kislargecontainer.zip?dl=0
  • (it's an oversized container for KIS - was based on an old version, but I diffed the configs and they're essentially the same. Needed to hold the oversized parts from NFC. Now that I look at it, I think I forgot to balance the weight - the intent is to reduce part count, not cheat. :V)
• Grab this save (includes a saved ship): https://www.dropbox.com/s/l413g8rkml4w4ea/default.zip?dl=0
• Convenience tweak for KIS: Set the maxGrabMass in settings.cfg to 100t or so, and the maxGrabDistance to 10. I don't think this should cause an issue, but who knows?
• Launch from the SPH, and try to build the same structure you see on the bottom of the ship (note, only the the two center nodes are stacked - the ends are free-hanging)
• Observe RUD once you attach anything parallel to the runway.
  • Note that using the mitigation steps mentioned above avoids the issue - specifically, take the part out and place it on the runway first, then attach it to the structure you're building. So this should be a way around it until a fix, but it's tedious.
• Of note is that I could NOT reproduce this issue using stock parts, at least based on my hypothesis - the only thing that would fit together snugly enough to be parallel was I-Beams and MicroNodes, though I did get a tiny bounce out of them when placing the first one. Perhaps it's mass-dependent?

Edit: You know, I just realized - these octo-trusses also have a B9PartSwitch module. Interesting, or red herring?

Second Edit: Well, I successfully built my station by dropping everything on the asteroid before I attached it. B9PartSwitch didn't seem to matter - most of what I tried would blow up if I didn't drop it before attaching, partswitch module be damned. It sounds like @IgorZ has a sense of what's causing this, if not a fix. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help out.

Edited July 14, 2020 by etmoonshade
Added more info.

[Tonka Crash]

@Joker58th @DeadJohn @IgorZ I just ran a test pulling a part that used B9 Part Switcher (It wasn't from SSPX) straight from inventory and attached it to a capsule on the pad and the resulting explosion blew my capsule from the launchpad to the other side of the tracking station. I think there's a bad interaction around the KIS/B9PS part creation.  When KIS pulls a part out of inventory it's created in the game as if it never existed before. I think how B9PS handles multiple models is doing bad things if the part is created as it's attached.

I guess I haven't seen this before because I don't have that many mods that use B9PS and the parts that I do have are typically big enough I wouldn't be hauling them around in inventories.

[IgorZ]

@Joker58th @DeadJohn @Tonka Crash

Guys, could you please help me testing it? I've installed B9PS and... nothing happen. What should I do to have the bug triggered? Which part does the trick? If I understand the mod description correctly, it doesn't do anything to the parts by itself.

Btw, B9PS is not officially compatible with 1.10.

On 7/13/2020 at 4:58 PM, etmoonshade said:

Launch from the SPH, and try to build the same structure you see on the bottom of the ship (note, only the the two center nodes are stacked - the ends are free-hanging)

Can I ask you to give a screenshot of this setup? Or better a short video.

[etmoonshade]

6 hours ago, IgorZ said:

@Joker58th @DeadJohn @Tonka Crash

Guys, could you please help me testing it? I've installed B9PS and... nothing happen. What should I do to have the bug triggered? Which part does the trick? If I understand the mod description correctly, it doesn't do anything to the parts by itself.

Btw, B9PS is not officially compatible with 1.10.

Can I ask you to give a screenshot of this setup? Or better a short video.

I'll have to fiddle around and get the test setup worked out again...

It's basically two octo-nodes stacked below a Mk2 Lander Can, and then two trusses coming off each side and octo-nodes on the end caps.

Side view:

             ^          
          o--o--o       
          o--o--o       
------------------------------------------------------------------------------> (runway)

^  lander can
o  Octo-Node
-- Regular octo-truss (not long)

If you downloaded the test setup I linked, placing the octo-node on the runway and trying to attach the truss to it was enough to blow things up:

     o--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------> (runway)

Edit: Okay, now I can't reproduce this. What the crap? I tried about 4 times and got the same explosive results when I originally tried this.

Double edit: I was working with a saved KSP folder that I'd copied elsewhere before doing this test, so it's also not like my setup has changed in any way. This is weirdness.

Edited July 17, 2020 by etmoonshade

[DeadJohn]

12 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Guys, could you please help me testing it? I've installed B9PS and... nothing happen. What should I do to have the bug triggered? Which part does the trick? If I understand the mod description correctly, it doesn't do anything to the parts by itself.

I just did a lot of testing. I think it's an acceleration problem triggered when parts with part variants from Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux are taken from a KIS container and attached directly to a craft. Parts with variants from Restock do not seem to have the problem; that mod does variants without B9 Part Switch. Adding @Nertea but I can't tell whether this is a SSPXR issue, KIS/KAS, B9 Part Switch, or some weird KSP 1.9.1 glitch (my 2 logs linked in this thread July 8 showed a drag cube message).

This short 1:25 video summarizes the following wall of text. 43G of acceleration while screwing 2 parts together. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i0cAPzdXFSIPtahvfFIjt7msFd16JImL/view?usp=sharing

I can get the problem regardless of whether I attach the parts at a node or to the surface. I can get the problem with all of these parts:

1. Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port. That's the stock 1.25m port but SSPXR gives it 3 variants.
2. Telescopic Clamp-O-tron Docking Module. That new part is added by SSPXR and has variants.
3. Pressurized BZ-15 radial Attachment Point. Another SSPXR part that has variants. It's not a docking port, though, so shows the problem isn't limited to docking.

Restock variants seem okay. I tested the Mk1 Command Pod, HECS2, and QBE which all get variants from Restock.

To further rule out a general docking port issue, the Docking Port Jr. and Clamp-O-Tron Shielded Docking Port don't get variants from either mod, and they both attach okay even when SSPXR is installed.

To replicate the problem:

1. Assemble a 2-part craft. For example, Mk1 Lander can on top of ILC-18k container. (I also tested 2 other command modules and 2 other containers with similar behavior.)
2. Put some or all of the parts mentioned above inside the container. Include a drill.
3. Add an engineer to the crew.
4. Launch craft from VAB. It stays on launch pad throughout test.
5. Send engineer on EVA.
6. Open engineer and container inventory windows.
7. Drag drill from container to engineer inventory. Press 1 to equip screwdriver.
8. Drag a part from container and hover it near the open top node of craft. Do not click to drop the port yet.
9. Press and release R to change from surface attach to node attach.
10. Press and hold H, then left click to activate drill.
11. Part begins to attach to the top of the craft. If it's one of the problem parts, it will induce a downward acceleration away from the part and may explode parts from impact.
12. If more examples needed: Try surface attaching to the side of the container. Aim a bit lower than halfway down. That should fling the craft sideways, confirming there's an acceleration before any explosions. F3 will confirm there's a high acceleration.
13. If more examples needed: Drop part on ground from container. Then grab it from ground to attach. This seems to work safely.
14. If more examples needed: Cheat craft into orbit, try attaching parts, and you'll see additional signs of crazy acceleration when attaching one of the problem parts. You may or may not get explosions in orbit depending on where you attach. The craft will sometimes spin, kill the engineer, but nothing explodes.

Kerbal Joint Reinforcement does not seem to be a factor. I get similar problems with it installed or uninstalled.

If you read back to some of my July 8 comments, I said my workaround was to surface attach when first dragging from the container. I'll clarify that to say I got lucky - I may have surface attached to a heavy fuel tank or close enough to vessel center of mass that the unwanted acceleration was within safe limits.

Edited July 17, 2020 by DeadJohn
Edited Restock sentence in para.1 to clarify it doesn't depend on B9.

[Tonka Crash]

@IgorZ Minimal install on 1.9.1

KIS/KAS/B8PS and just a couple other mods. To get parts I used ArcAerospace Wyvern Capsule just downloaded the latest version of the code.  I've been play testing this as it's being developed.  It's a small 2 part mod.  Capsule and engine pods.  The engine pods use B9PS to swap LFO/Monoprop and long/short variants.  

It's not just having B9PS installed that I think causes the problem, but trying to install a part that uses B9PS to change models. In the attached video I stuck an engine in a KIS container in the VAB on either side of the capsule.  When Bill tries to attach one it blows the capsule off the pad. The engine pod should be at the bottom of the engine category in the VAB with this mod.

KSP.Log

The first time I tried to make the video I forgot the B9PS install and there were no physics freakout, so I went back added B9PS to the install and got this:

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Tonka Crash

[IgorZ]

I was able to reproduce the issue with the B9PS. I haven't figured any quick fix for that, so I'd likely leave it for KISv2. In the new version all the parts are created using the stock game functionality, so this issue will naturally vanish.

Edited July 18, 2020 by IgorZ

[NoahLovesKSP]

I am having this problem that when I drag the portable container to my inventory, it just stays there but it is in my inventory and it is not on my kerbal, hen I drag it out to place again, it places fine, but it makes a clone. so there are 2 containers, same with every other part.

[Tonka Crash]

4 minutes ago, NoahLovesKSP said:

I am having this problem that when I drag the portable container to my inventory, it just stays there but it is in my inventory and it is not on my kerbal, hen I drag it out to place again, it places fine, but it makes a clone. so there are 2 containers, same with every other part.

Sounds like you are on 1.10.  It has issues and needs an update before working properly.

[NoahLovesKSP]

16 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

Sounds like you are on 1.10.  It has issues and needs an update before working properly.

Welp, time to go back to 1.9.1 now lol

[IgorZ]

KIS v1.26

1.26 (July 18th, 2020):

• [Change] Switch to MiniAVC-V2.
• [Enhancement] Add a new fun part: Snacks!
• [Enhancement] Add a new fun part: Fallen Kerbonaut. FYI, there is a real life prototype for this part.
• [Enhancement] Add storage lockers parts. They used to be a part of the defunc SEP mod.
• [Enhancement #360] Use fuel type from the config for the EVA fuel canister.
• [Fix #362] Tab Key in Map View crashes the game.
• [Fix #364] KSP 1.10: Carriable items cannot be equipped.

HINT: Give it some time to show up in CKAN.

[Beetlecat]

9 hours ago, IgorZ said:

[Fix #364] KSP 1.10: Carriable items cannot be equipped.

OHH!!  Maybe that's why I was having trouble with the Universal Storage EVA backpack thing!

[NoahLovesKSP]

1 hour ago, Beetlecat said:

OHH!!  Maybe that's why I was having trouble with the Universal Storage EVA backpack thing!

Yes I was having the same problem, finally can play 1.10 again , I was playing in 1.9.1 while I was waiting for KIS to update

[Random Annoying Guy]

Still compatible with 1.9?

[Tonka Crash]

11 minutes ago, Random Annoying Guy said:

Still compatible with 1.9?

Yes, that's why the the thread title says Minimum KSP Version 1.8.

[Entropian]

Out of curiosity, why is the speaker set called "Ghetto Blaster?"  It's ragtime, not ghetto!  Ragtime is totally different! 

I love this mod.  Thanks for keeping it going.