[Minimum KSP version - 1.12] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) v1.29

[chris-kerbal]

So I just saw a patch for HabTech2 to add stock inventory to the parts. It removed the KIS inventory modules from the configs. Having no experience, I ask myself, what would happen, if you keep the KIS inventory and stock inventory config in the parts config? I am thinking here in backwards compatibility, to use KIS in older versions and stock in newer versions. But does it work? Will old versions ignore stock modules and will KIS handle it correctly?

Any experience?

[IgorZ]

7 hours ago, chris-kerbal said:

Any experience?

Only two pages ago:

On 1/15/2021 at 11:03 PM, IgorZ said:

People keep asking if KIS is compatible with the stock system. So, here is the official answer which I hope will make it crystal clear. KIS and the stock inventory system are completely independent. They do not interfere with each other, but they do not cooperate either. You can install or remove KIS at any moment with zero impact to the stock inventories in your carrier game. And you can use the stock inventory system anywhere anytime without a risk to harm KIS inventories. The worst thing that may happen is some GUI interference. In this case please let me know and I'll have it fixed.

 

[chris-kerbal]

5 hours ago, IgorZ said:

People keep asking if KIS is compatible with the stock system. So, here is the official answer which I hope will make it crystal clear. KIS and the stock inventory system are completely independent. They do not interfere with each other, but they do not cooperate either. You can install or remove KIS at any moment with zero impact to the stock inventories in your carrier game. And you can use the stock inventory system anywhere anytime without a risk to harm KIS inventories. The worst thing that may happen is some GUI interference. In this case please let me know and I'll have it fixed.

Ok, thanks a lot! Must have missed that.

EDIT: Maybe it is worthwhile to put that in the initial post?

Edited February 25, 2021 by chris-kerbal

[chris-kerbal]

Maybe to help others to decide how to use KIS and the stock inventory system, I found the following in fiddling with different config setups.

In terms of inventory and in flight building, the stock system works quite well and is very similar to the KIS functionality (Provided the parts are configured correctly). Hence switching a mod to the stock inventory for storage reasons and building is quite easy. Having both inventories activated is possible, however massively confusing in playing.

I figured two other functionalities are unique to KIS: C4 and EVA transport/toolless attachment.
Deleting parts with C4 is quite unique to KIS. ;-)
The transport of containers on the back of Kerbals and the attachment to predefined racks are also unique to KIS. The attachment to racks is a minor difference, as when doing that with an engineer, the in game difference is just different clicks, only the toolless part for other Kerbals differs. However transporting a container on back of a Kerbal won't be possible in stock.

I might have missed other important functionality, as this is based on my playstyle and how I use KIS.

So why write this? First to help others that are messing with configs and share my experience. Second this could give an idea on how KIS could go forward in 1.11 functionality? Inventory parts for stock inventory, plus EVA features for transport and C4 ;-). Basically dropping the KIS inventory itself and keep the other features for stock. Of course the future of KIS is at IgorZ discretion, but I thought I share my thoughts.

[adriangm44]

Hey guys! Anyone here knows how to make parts stackable with tweakscale?

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, adriangm44 said:

Hey guys! Anyone here knows how to make parts stackable with tweakscale?

Check this thread

Spoiler

 

The KIS support has gone Gold early this year. (report any problems on that thread too)

[IgorZ]

13 hours ago, adriangm44 said:

Hey guys! Anyone here knows how to make parts stackable with tweakscale?

The short answer is to update KIS settings at this line: https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/blob/master/settings.cfg#L107. The full answer would require browsing ModuleManager and/or TweakScale threads to get the actual patches.

[flart]

On 3/7/2021 at 4:27 PM, chris-kerbal said:

Deleting parts with C4 is quite unique to KIS.

Also there is Kaboom

 

[Artyom]

With the new Stock Inventory system, building bases for the stock game is much easier, However, I've encountered a problem. Due to both system's being independent, I cannot find a way to equip tools in the game. Though I can put up items fine, the ability to equip tools to attach or place certain things to other vehicles has become impossible from my experience so far (ie. Building a space stations, or assembling a ship in orbit, and connecting all the modules to become one vessel), and I cannot find this question being answered anywhere else, due to how recent the update was.  I've had years with this game, but I've never encountered a problem like it. 

Any input would be most grateful. 

The solution is resolved, my apologies 
 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Artyom
Found the solution

[Lisias]

22 hours ago, IgorZ said:

The full answer would require browsing ModuleManager and/or TweakScale threads to get the actual patches.

To tell you the true, from 2.4.4.0 and forward, the correct thread is the TweakScale Companion Program one - TweakScale "vanilla" aims to support Stock and DLC only, everything else is now supported on a Companion.

But using the TweakScale thread as a jump point doesn't hurts.

[adriangm44]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:35 AM, IgorZ said:

The short answer is to update KIS settings at this line: https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/blob/master/settings.cfg#L107. The full answer would require browsing ModuleManager and/or TweakScale threads to get the actual patches.

So... Here I am again. I'm sorry to keep addressing the same subject but I really need to solve this. This time I'm doing as more tests as possible so I don't overly bother you.

Stackable parts, right? I thought there was an incompatibility with Tweakscale and I went to @Lisias' thread "Tweacsale Companion Program". Reported the issue and... long story short: He promped me to make a patch he wrote, didn't work, tried a bare test without tweakscale, and parts wouldn't stack either. You can check the whole conversation from here onwards.

So there must be a problem with KIS, must it not? I don't know, let's dive right in: I knew that parts would stack before, so I made my own tests so you don't have to. I'm going to leave the logs and crafts to your disposal if needed.

 

FIRST TEST) I uninstalled all the few mods I had but KIS & KAS. A few parts stack! As expected, not all of them though, the lights, landing legs, RCS and other parts are not stackable, despite being on the stackable list in the settings' cfg. Just a question... batteries? How is that they're not stackable?

Logs and craft here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rmIFTfT7HbwWLZx_z5_N6pXrZ_UnT79r?usp=sharing

SECOND TEST) After that I started installing all the mods I consider essentials, mods I cannot play without. SAME AS BEFORE, NO CHANGES. Then I added the visual mods I like, and this is what happened:

Many parts such as solar panels, engines among others that were stackable before, they weren't anymore. Could Kopernicus have caused it? But there's more...

Logs and craft: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gumaRv5tPwDe5vHWXdXyuPwFhTA3504G?usp=sharing

THIRD TEST) Installed a mod I really like called Restock, Restock+ & Restock Extra and tested it. More parts stopped being stackable as they were... antenna, heat difusers...

Logs and craft: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pjTKtA_Rok6TeYVJXETPaoKUsmO4dM_q?usp=sharing

 

I will carry on tomorrow cause it's too late here and I'm very tired. Thank you for your support, I'll be back.

[IgorZ]

@adriangm44 Thanks for doing all these tests and sharing the result. However, most of the cases are well known. The way how KIS was implemented (many years ago) assumes that all parts in the stack must have the same properties and state. It means that part cannot stack if any of the below is true:

1. The part contains any resource. Electricity is also a resource, that's why batteries are not stacking.
2. The part has a module which state can change. E.g. the deployable parts.

This limitation applies to the stock inventory system as well because of the inventory items are persisted in the same way. What is different is that in the stock system it's explicitly defined per part if it can be stacked or not (via the ModuleCargoPart module), and KIS makes this decision based on the resources and modules. Since KIS cannot determine if a particular module has a state, it is assumed that any unknown module has it. To tell KIS that a specific module doesn't have state or it's OK to reset it, whitelist the module name in KIS config.

Now, with this knowledge you may understand what's happening in your game. When you add a mod that adds a new module to a part, that parts stops stacking. If mod didn't whitelist its module, then you need to let KIS know that this new module is safe for stacking. That being said, the only real problem in your post is that the restock parts are not stackable. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Indeed, in the mod they add some new modules to the parts which prevents stacking. I'll investigate these modules to figure out if it's safe to allow them stacking.

Edited March 14, 2021 by IgorZ

[adriangm44]

19 hours ago, IgorZ said:

1. The part contains any resource. Electricity is also a resource, that's why batteries are not stacking.
2. The part has a module which state can change. E.g. the deployable parts.

This limitation applies to the stock inventory system as well because of the inventory items are persisted in the same way. What is different is that in the stock system it's explicitly defined per part if it can be stacked or not (via the ModuleCargoPart module), and KIS makes this decision based on the resources and modules. Since KIS cannot determine if a particular module has a state, it is assumed that any unknown module has it. To tell KIS that a specific module doesn't have state or it's OK to reset it, whitelist the module name in KIS config.

Thank you @IgorZ , that was huge information to me, and indeed, with this knodledge I understand much better how it works and you saved me from making more similar tests hahaha.

So my question would be: How do I whitelist the desired modules? Can I make a patch in case of KIS update? If so, what should I write in it? And how can I find the module I need for it to be allowed to stack?

Edited March 12, 2021 by adriangm44

[IgorZ]

On 3/12/2021 at 6:14 AM, adriangm44 said:

Can I make a patch in case of KIS update? If so, what should I write in it?

See https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/blob/d92c40bf5a3c6d851027fccd53c9f45506fc3846/settings.cfg#L107

On 3/12/2021 at 6:14 AM, adriangm44 said:

And how can I find the module I need for it to be allowed to stack?

Check `ModuleManager.ConfigCache` for the part in question and verify if all modules of the part are listed as stackable. Keep in mind that blind whitelisting may result in a weird behavior in the game. If a module has a state or resources, and you've whitelisted it, be sure the state of the stacked parts will become inconsistent. Basically, the state for all the parts in the stack will get reset to the first part added to the inventory.

[adriangm44]

14 hours ago, IgorZ said:

See https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/blob/d92c40bf5a3c6d851027fccd53c9f45506fc3846/settings.cfg#L107

Check `ModuleManager.ConfigCache` for the part in question and verify if all modules of the part are listed as stackable. Keep in mind that blind whitelisting may result in a weird behavior in the game. If a module has a state or resources, and you've whitelisted it, be sure the state of the stacked parts will become inconsistent. Basically, the state for all the parts in the stack will get reset to the first part added to the inventory.

So for instance, if I add a broken gigantor solar pannel and stack it, it'll fix itself? Or a dead battery will be automatically recharched?

That's what I understood... no negative behaviours, is it?

[IgorZ]

2 hours ago, adriangm44 said:

So for instance, if I add a broken gigantor solar pannel and stack it, it'll fix itself? Or a dead battery will be automatically recharched?

It depends on what you've stored first. If the stack was created from a dead battery or broken panel, then all the new items will inherit this state.

2 hours ago, adriangm44 said:

no negative behaviours, is it?

You never know. It all depends on the part design.

[darthgently]

Apologies if this has been covered, but it seems stock construction, while considering the HG-5 a stock cargo part, stock construction won't let me attach it in construction mode.  Is there a way to move something from stock cargo to KIS inventory? I *know* I can attach it using KIS/KAS if I can only get my kerbal's grab hand on the dang thing

[IgorZ]

16 hours ago, darthgently said:

Apologies if this has been covered, but it seems stock construction, while considering the HG-5 a stock cargo part, stock construction won't let me attach it in construction mode.  Is there a way to move something from stock cargo to KIS inventory? I *know* I can attach it using KIS/KAS if I can only get my kerbal's grab hand on the dang thing

There is no such a way. If you scroll this page up, you'll find my post explaining why. The best thing you can do is dropping the part on the ground from one inventory and then putting it into another.

[darthgently]

9 hours ago, IgorZ said:

There is no such a way. If you scroll this page up, you'll find my post explaining why. The best thing you can do is dropping the part on the ground from one inventory and then putting it into another.

I do most of my construction, KIS or stock, in orbit.  I haven't figured out how to "drop" something in stock construction while on orbital EVA.  Is there a way?

[RealKerbal3x]

30 minutes ago, darthgently said:

I do most of my construction, KIS or stock, in orbit.  I haven't figured out how to "drop" something in stock construction while on orbital EVA.  Is there a way?

Just left-clicking over some empty space while holding the part should do it.

[darthgently]

20 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Just left-clicking over some empty space while holding the part should do it.

That has not worked in the past.  Strange.  I'll dink around with it some more.  Thanks for responding

[darthgently]

Is there a feasible path to make a backpack that has both stock and KIS inventory slots like the stock SEQ-9 (but backpackable)?

[IgorZ]

10 hours ago, darthgently said:

Is there a feasible path to make a backpack that has both stock and KIS inventory slots like the stock SEQ-9 (but backpackable)?

Unlikely. The "backpack" is not a part, it's a feature of the kerbal themselves. Given kerbals already have a stock cargo module, you cannot do anything else. One possible way would be using the KIS portable container and adding a cargo module there, but you won't be able to seat with it.

[darthgently]

On 4/5/2021 at 8:55 PM, IgorZ said:

Unlikely. The "backpack" is not a part, it's a feature of the kerbal themselves. Given kerbals already have a stock cargo module, you cannot do anything else. One possible way would be using the KIS portable container and adding a cargo module there, but you won't be able to seat with it.

The possible way you mention is what I meant.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.  Yes, a portable container (which I think of as a backpack) with both stock and KIS slots.  Even better if the max load/volume could dynamically vary; so one could max out using KIS inventory or stock, or somewhere in between

[below got merged, but is totally unrelated to previous]

I've been known to totally miss out on stuff in KSP and mods I use because, though I do read the manual, I forget.  So it is always a pleasant surprise when I find out there actually *is* a way to do something.  Anyway, I'm hoping there is already a way, either via KIS or stock construction, to adjust offset of attached parts much as in the editor.  Does anyone know of a technique, even if a little sketchy, for doing this with existing KSP/KIS?

Edited April 10, 2021 by darthgently
merge confused things

[Jokpau Gaming]

Is there any way to fix [part name] doesn't have personal inventory space?

The part in this case is ranger.minihab which is mks ranger mini habitation module from ModularKolonizationSystems

I can work around that by going eva and then in the module, but that can sometimes be uncomfortable, for example in space

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Jokpau Gaming