Please stop posting craft files to Spacedock

[ZooNamedGames]

This only happens occasionally but it irks me to see someone upload a craft file to a site made for mods. If you want to put it someplace shareable put it on KerbalX. A site designed for sharing crafts. 

Proof is uploads like this that needs to go to KerbalX- http://spacedock.info/mod/1082/Stock Mercury Redstone / Atlas

 

Rant over.

[Stone Blue]

I do have to say I agree, and this irks me too.

@katateochi, the dev behind the KerbalX site itself, has even made a KSP mod, to make it easy to upload/download crafts, DIRECTLY FROM IN-GAME:
 

I'm not sure what @VITAS 's feelings are on this type of upload... Not sure if there is a "Report Submission" or "mod" button on SpaceDock, to help weed out questionable uploads?

Edited November 24, 2016 by Stone Blue

[ZooNamedGames]

22 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

I do have to say I agree, and this irks me too.

@katateochi, the dev behind the KerbalX site itself, has even made a KSP mod, to make it easy to upload/download crafts, DIRECTLY FROM IN-GAME:
 

I'm not sure what @VITAS 's feelings are on this type of upload... Not sure if there is a "Report Submission" or "mod" button on SpaceDock, to help weed out questionable uploads?

Yeah I used that mod for a while but I guess a couple of clicks is too much effort for this community.

If there was a rating or comment system on Spacedock someone could just say "not a mod" and let others know. 

Also, I've heard of some method of reporting bad mods but never have seen it.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

I see that the mod mentioned has an MIT license, in the terms and conditions for SpaceDock it clearly states " Do not upload content you cannot grant licenses to "  SO on that point alone the poster has broken those terms, they don't own anything or have any rights to a craft file produced in KSP from parts wholly owned and licensed by Squad. 

[monstah]

2 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I see that the mod mentioned has an MIT license, in the terms and conditions for SpaceDock it clearly states " Do not upload content you cannot grant licenses to "  SO on that point alone the poster has broken those terms, they don't own anything or have any rights to a craft file produced in KSP from parts wholly owned and licensed by Squad. 

They are not sharing Squad's parts or assets. They are merely sharing a text file that tells the game how to put them together, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[VITAS]

My feelings are simple: Please use Kerbalx for savegames/vessel files.

 

Long statement:

The owner of KerbalX and me had talks when SpaceDock started. We agreed uppon leaving vessel handeling to KerbalX and mods to SpaceDock. Neither Site is made for handeling the other sites job. Even those iterrations of Planetary systems (or flag packs for that matter)  are on the border of what i would call "mod", but because KerbalX isnt the right place for those things either i accept them beeing on SpaceDock. For me a mod (and therfor somethign allowed on SpaceDock) is something the author needed to code for or at least make new 3d models (and corrosponding textures).

Edited November 24, 2016 by VITAS

[ZooNamedGames]

1 hour ago, VITAS said:

My feelings are simple: Please use Kerbalx for savegames/vessel files.

 

Long statement:

The owner of KerbalX and me had talks when SpaceDock started. We agreed uppon leaving vessel handeling to KerbalX and mods to SpaceDock. Neither Site is made for handeling the other sites job. Even those iterrations of Planetary systems (or flag packs for that matter)  are on the border of what i would call "mod", but because KerbalX isnt the right place for those things either i accept them beeing on SpaceDock. For me a mod (and therfor somethign allowed on SpaceDock) is something the author needed to code for or at least make new 3d models (and corrosponding textures).

Yeah. I've always silently disgraced flag packs (unless supplementing another mod (such as how HyperEdit has a flag pack)) as the laziest form of "modding". Although I've never made a flag pack I am aware of how it's done.

[Enceos]

@ZooNamedGames This "laziest" form of modding sometimes makes cool stuff not everyone can repeat.

[ZooNamedGames]

2 hours ago, Enceos said:

@ZooNamedGames This "laziest" form of modding sometimes makes cool stuff not everyone can repeat.

It's still lazy. Packing an image into set resolution and file doesn't take as much skill as those who poor 100s of hours into modeling, coding and testing their work. It's so bare minimum of a mod that unlike others you'll never update it and never need to post a bug fix. It becomes superfluous to all means of aging out.

[Enceos]

@ZooNamedGames "Packing an image into a set resolution"  that's how you make mission patches, icon drawing takes a whole different set of skills.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Enceos

[pxi]

You know, you could 'disgrace' people uploading craft files in much the same way - it's something literally anyone in the community could do, considering that a major component of KSP is creating vehicles.

The point of a flag pack is not the difficulty in creating it - it's the fact that someone in the community took the time to do something, and by sharing the results of their labour they save any interested party time and effort in duplicated work.  I could easily make my own flags, but I have many of the flag packs installed because they add a benefit to my experience with virtually no effort on my part.

KSP's modding community is made of people doing all kinds of stuff big and small.  There's mods I love, and some I'm not so fond of.  I'd never describe any of them as lazy however, that just strikes me as being utterly disrespectful.

EDIT:  To be clear, I'm not intending to disparage the craft-uploading community, I'm referencing them simply for the purposes of making a point.

Edited November 27, 2016 by pxi

[ZooNamedGames]

1 hour ago, pxi said:

You know, you could 'disgrace' people uploading craft files in much the same way - it's something literally anyone in the community could do, considering that a major component of KSP is creating vehicles.

The point of a flag pack is not the difficulty in creating it - it's the fact that someone in the community took the time to do something, and by sharing the results of their labour they save any interested party time and effort in duplicated work.  I could easily make my own flags, but I have many of the flag packs installed because they add a benefit to my experience with virtually no effort on my part.

KSP's modding community is made of people doing all kinds of stuff big and small.  There's mods I love, and some I'm not so fond of.  I'd never describe any of them as lazy however, that just strikes me as being utterly disrespectful.

EDIT:  To be clear, I'm not intending to disparage the craft-uploading community, I'm referencing them simply for the purposes of making a point.

Catch is; just like craft files, if I upload the Aeris 3A and add solar panels and say it's mine, it's a lazy excuse to post a craft.

To be honest, my biggest issue is, it's just a poor excuse of modding next to everything else. For one, it pushes other mods which actually have mod content down on the "newest mods" list. Not to mention I feel it's a cheap way to say "hey I made a mod". Not everyone who makes a flag pack may have that in mind but it's still low on scale next to the rest of the mods.

[pxi]

11 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

To be honest, my biggest issue is, it's just a poor excuse of modding next to everything else. For one, it pushes other mods which actually have mod content down on the "newest mods" list. Not to mention I feel it's a cheap way to say "hey I made a mod". Not everyone who makes a flag pack may have that in mind but it's still low on scale next to the rest of the mods.

Well given that, as you point out in your previous posts, flag mods require little or no upkeep, I don't see this as a serious issue long term.  Do these threads get as much traffic as the more major mods?  I doubt it.

Frankly, people trying to draw a line in the sand and define certain mods as 'good enough' is probably worse for the community than having to scroll down a list imho.

Edited November 27, 2016 by pxi

[cxg2827]

On 11/24/2016 at 0:48 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Yeah. I've always silently disgraced flag packs [...] as the laziest form of "modding". Although I've never made a flag pack I am aware of how it's done.

You might be surprised as how much time this "lazy" form of modding can take. It's funny how you even say you've never made a flag pack so you dont know how its done, yet you bash them.

 

On 11/24/2016 at 7:40 PM, ZooNamedGames said:

Packing an image into set resolution and file doesn't take as much skill as those who poor 100s of hours into modeling, coding and testing their work. It's so bare minimum of a mod that unlike others you'll never update it and never need to post a bug fix. It becomes superfluous to all means of aging out.

Creating custom mission patches and flags takes a fair bit of thought and skill (not to mention time) to make something that looks good. And frankly, the way you are generalizing some of these creators is extremely rude, especially since they are devoting their own personal time to creating something to share with the community.

I'm not sure what specific flag packs you are turning your nose up at, but who cares if some of these might have been quick to create and don't require updating bug-fixing. Its a static texture, whats there to fix? At least these people have actually put forth an effort to create something and share with others rather than beg modders to make things for them, and then insult others.

 

11 hours ago, pxi said:

The point of a flag pack is not the difficulty in creating it - it's the fact that someone in the community took the time to do something, and by sharing the results of their labour they save any interested party time and effort in duplicated work.  I could easily make my own flags, but I have many of the flag packs installed because they add a benefit to my experience with virtually no effort on my part.

KSP's modding community is made of people doing all kinds of stuff big and small.  There's mods I love, and some I'm not so fond of.  I'd never describe any of them as lazy however, that just strikes me as being utterly disrespectful.

Well said.

 

 

10 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

For one, it pushes other mods which actually have mod content down on the "newest mods" list.

Once again, more rudeness. Who cares if it pushes the "newest mods" list over a whole tile? Its not like flag packs are being spammed on SpaceDock, and you can always click the button to view more "Updated Mods".

As someone who actually uses SpaceDock to host one of my creations, I can care less if a flag pack pushes a mod I recently updated off the main SpaceDock page. SpaceDock subscribers get an email, CKAN users I assume get notified, and the forum thread gets updated so I don't see what the issue is.

 

 

10 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Not to mention I feel it's a cheap way to say "hey I made a mod"

I hardly doubt people create mods just to be smug and beat their chests on the forums. People want something specific added to the stock game, so they create it and then share with others. That's why modders do what they do.

 

9 hours ago, pxi said:

Well given that, as you point out in your previous posts, flag mods require little or no upkeep, I don't see this as a serious issue long term. 

This.

 

10 hours ago, pxi said:

Frankly, people trying to draw a line in the sand and define certain mods as 'good enough' is probably worse for the community than having to scroll down a list imho.

This mentality is what pushes people away from wanting to share mods with the community.

[ZooNamedGames]

9 minutes ago, cxg2827 said:

You might be surprised as how much time this "lazy" form of modding can take. It's funny how you even say you've never made a flag pack so you dont know how its done, yet you bash them.

 

Creating custom mission patches and flags takes a fair bit of thought and skill (not to mention time) to make something that looks good. And frankly, the way you are generalizing some of these creators is extremely rude, especially since they are devoting their own personal time to creating something to share with the community.

I'm not sure what specific flag packs you are turning your nose up at, but who cares if some of these might have been quick to create and don't require updating bug-fixing. Its a static texture, whats there to fix? At least these people have actually put forth an effort to create something and share with others rather than beg modders to make things for them, and then insult others.

 

Well said.

 

 

Once again, more rudeness. Who cares if it pushes the "newest mods" list over a whole tile? Its not like flag packs are being spammed on SpaceDock, and you can always click the button to view more "Updated Mods".

As someone who actually uses SpaceDock to host one of my creations, I can care less if a flag pack pushes a mod I recently updated off the main SpaceDock page. SpaceDock subscribers get an email, CKAN users I assume get notified, and the forum thread gets updated so I don't see what the issue is.

 

 

I hardly doubt people create mods just to be smug and beat their chests on the forums. People want something specific added to the stock game, so they create it and then share with others. That's why modders do what they do.

 

This.

 

This mentality is what pushes people away from wanting to share mods with the community.

Catch is, I know how to make a flag pack. This isn't an assumption of what it takes, its existing knowledge. 

Why am I bashing flag packs? Because crap like this exists and gets continually released. It's a poor excuse for a mod pack-

http://spacedock.info/mod/679/Guinea Pig Flags

[CobaltWolf]

Who cares if someone made some flags and wants to share them? It's valid IMO. The bigger issue to me is...

On 11/24/2016 at 11:13 AM, ZooNamedGames said:

Proof is uploads like this that needs to go to KerbalX- http://spacedock.info/mod/1082/Stock Mercury Redstone / Atlas

REEEEEEEEEEEPEOPLENOTUSINGMYMODREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

EDIT: To be clear, yes, .craft files belong on KerbalX.

EDIT2: Actually, come to think of it. Spacedock doesn't have categories, does it? I suppose that would solve this problem easily, but I'm not about to ask @VITAS to add such a large feature. He's got enough going on.

Edited November 27, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Stone Blue]

@ZooNamedGames yeah, you had a valid point/topic when you first posted...  You should have kept quiet after your first couple replies... lol
Now you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

Yeah, VITAS has quite a long list of Issues/Requests on the Git repo to look at... Many are quite old, and I would rather see all that get addressed before worrying about setting up structure on the site to separate, or remove these types of mods that may/may not be of any value in someone's eyes. The most that I think might help for the types of things that ARE not by true definition a mod, is maybe to add a "Report Submission" button or something... But beyond that, I dont think its a big enough issue (yet)... And even that I think is not as a high a priority as things already mentioned on the Git repo.

Anyway, I think you've made your original point, and now youre just digging yourself a hole, and this thread is quickly losing value and just becoming a baby-diaper-mess fest...

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by Stone Blue

[cxg2827]

34 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Why am I bashing flag packs? Because crap like this exists and gets continually released. It's a poor excuse for a mod pack-

http://spacedock.info/mod/679/Guinea Pig Flags

Continually released? it was posted back in May and hasnt been updated since.

And you lay off the Guinea Pig Flags, those are some legit flags.

 

18 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Who cares if someone made some flags and wants to share them? It's valid IMO. The bigger issue to me is...

On 11/24/2016 at 10:13 AM, ZooNamedGames said:

Proof is uploads like this that needs to go to KerbalX- http://spacedock.info/mod/1082/Stock Mercury Redstone / Atlas

REEEEEEEEEEEPEOPLENOTUSINGMYMODREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Better than anything you can come up with a FASA knock-off mod

 

8 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

maybe to add a "Report Submission" button or something

This could be good. Though like you said, VITAS has higher priority to take care of. So best we can do is hope people are smart enough to use KerbalX for craft hosting

[ZooNamedGames]

2 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

@ZooNamedGames yeah, you had a valid point/topic when you first posted...  You should have kept quiet after your first couple replies... lol
Now you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

Yeah, VITAS has quite a long list of Issues/Requests on the Git repo to look at... Many are quite old, and I would rather see all that get addressed before worrying about setting up structure on the site to separate, or remove these types of mods that may/may not be of any value in someone's eyes. The most that I think might help for the types of things that ARE not by true definition a mod, is maybe to add a "Report Submission" button or something... But beyond that, I dont think its a big enough issue (yet)... And even that I think is not as a high a priority as things already mentioned on the Git repo.

Anyway, I think you've made your original point, and now youre just digging yourself a hole, and this thread is quickly losing value and just becoming a baby-diaper-mess fest...

 

Welcome to my life on a daily basis. Got enough bullet holes in my foot to qualify as Swiss chess. Honestly the rest of you don't care about my opinion and I don't care about all of yours. Your judgement of my opinion is about as valuable as sand on a beech.

2 hours ago, cxg2827 said:Continually released? it was posted back in May and hasnt been updated since.

 And you lay off the Guinea Pig Flags, those are some legit flags.

Its not the creators first and only abomination of a creation. 

Lastly I think I made my point here as did you. I dislike flag packs and you dislike my opinion of them. Case and therefore, thread closed.

[Frybert]

Thread locked at OP request.