The Kerbal Dakar 2017 entry vehicles thread

[Slam_Jones]

Just now, Triop said:

 

Thank you thank you THANK YOU!!!!

Seriously, I was going insane trying to figure it out xD

Thank you!

[DoctorDavinci]

So I have decided to enter 2 buggies .....

The first one in the video is the CANUKWorks B4-R ... The second is Bill's Big Bad Beaver

The B4-R is actually an electric powered refueling buggy that Jeb and Val will drive each stage with ahead of Bill so they can refuel him when he finishes ... I do not intend to swap out vehicles so once they leave the KSC they are on their own (Although I may swap out drivers after each stage)

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Morning all, been pretty quiet on Dakar testing at SM HQ we think we have a winner, it will be revealed later today, sadly to the pressure of competition some of the more unusual features have been dropped as being unable to provide required oomph, i would have liked to have gone regenerative hybrid but having crews fall asleep at the wheel does not make for a competition, 30 ms is not enough, 50ms nope, but i'll settle for 80 plus So like many others I'll be running juno's somewhere between 2-4 undecided on that part, I'll be using the same chassis replacing the batteries with more fuel, and i have acquired another set of wheels that seem to be perfect, they are available on the forum, so as far as i'm concerned they're fair game.  I tried the new wheel api with a couple of sets and despite it's early promise there were some setup issues that could not be resolved purely in cfg,  

So it turns out that aside from the actual chassis I'm not using anything thats dev access only, the wheels are kercehllins ( followers of the wheel will know them) and have recently been released again, stock engines, stock brake activated ctrl srf's and boost flap ( i think we all owe Azimech a pint for that discovery) illumination is provided by the minispots from SM Marine as they have an excellent range and beam angle for racing, and stock spots for edge illumination,,  So yeah later guys, happy trails

 

NEWS Flash.....

Fire suits ruled mandatory for all crews, shorts and T shirts pronounced improper attire.

[Majorjim!]

On 12/16/2016 at 0:49 PM, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Idk. Should I? It's a bit too goofy NOT to do it. 

LOL, why not? I saw you mention that you felt it was OP. Why is that? The wheels touch the ground yes? Then they are the weak link. The only way to get around the inherent weakness of the wheels is to lower impact speed so slow down before drop offs or spam surfaces so you glide, ie cheat. It's a rover not an aircraft. So I don't see any surface spam so you are golden.

 

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

11 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

LOL, why not? I saw you mention that you felt it was OP. Why is that? The wheels touch the ground yes? Then they are the weak link. The only way to get around the inherent weakness of the wheels is to lower impact speed so slow down before drop offs or spam surfaces so you glide, ie cheat. It's a rover not an aircraft. So I don't see any surface spam so you are golden.

 

No. That's the thing. I could only break solar cells. The worst I could do to the wheels was bend one. And that was with 36. When I went to 54, it was over. The wheels being auto strutted to the heaviest component, and it having insanely high crash resistance, it was a step under debug cheating. Seriously. It would never lose a pure solar ground race. No fun, if your in it for the sport. 

 

EDIT: ( holy crap I edit a lot)

if anyone's thinking of using it, I can upload a .craft file to save you time placing wheels and solar cells. There's a lot. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Majorjim!]

Just now, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

No. That's the thing. I could only break solar cells. The worst I could do to the wheels was bend one. And that was with 36. When I went to 54, it was over. The wheels being auto strutted to the heaviest component, and it having insanely high crash resistance, it was a step under debug cheating. Seriously. It would never lose a pure solar ground race. No fun, if your in it for the sport. 

You know what might be happening too? The bay doors might be hitting the surface when the wheel 'springs' depress, taking the majority of the strain. What m/s can it do over flat ground?

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

 

 

4 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

You know what might be happening too? The bay doors might be hitting the surface when the wheel 'springs' depress, taking the majority of the strain. What m/s can it do over flat ground?

Yeah that's a bit of it too. U can use them as training wheels, as well. Flat ground, it tops out the KR wheels. 49 or 51, can't remember. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Majorjim!]

Just now, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

No. That's the thing. I could only break solar cells. The worst I could do to the wheels was bend one. And that was with 36. When I went to 54, it was over. The wheels being auto strutted to the heaviest component, and it having insanely high crash resistance, it was a step under debug cheating. Seriously. It would never lose a pure solar ground race. No fun, if your in it for the sport. 

 

Yeah that's a bit of it too. U can use them as training wheels, as well. Flat ground, it tops out the KR wheels. 49 or 51, can't remember. 

Sod it, I say use it. For me the final times are an after thought. The fun is seeing the craft and the mishaps! Oh and driving the course, of course.

 Anyone know if refueling is allowed after a few stages?

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

2 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

Sod it, I say use it. For me the final times are an after thought. The fun is seeing the craft and the mishaps! Oh and driving the course, of course.

 Anyone know if refueling is allowed after a few stages?

Refuel: yes. 

Honestly, the danger of failure is the fun part for me. Maybe in a different race I'll use it. I barely care about winning, but I don't want to bother those that do. I seriously think it would take the cake in the stock/solar/non-jet cross-section. And I wouldn't have had to work hard for it, just hold set trim and steer. The thing only weighed like 15 tons. That's less than 300k per wheel. Might as well have been on the moon, for that kinda ground pressure. 

[Slam_Jones]

Working on a few prototypes for the competition.  These are Jet-Powered, SAS-and-Reaction-Wheel-Assisted rovers that I'm working on at the moment (whatever category that would drop them into!)

I've found that having a few reaction wheels and a small probe core can make your rover VERY stable, if you put it into 'Prograde' mode.   I built it, like all my rovers, to be very crash-resistant.  I usually test this by throwing it, full speed, at lots of different obstacles and seeing what happens.  Due to this, the engines, intakes, and driver are decently protected, though as you can see, they still are able to suffer minor damage.  Further testing and refining will fix this!  (Maybe)

Also, since the CoM is pretty low, I can throw it into corners pretty harshly without it digging in and going into a roll.

An example:  (If I went slower, I wouldn't spin into the air as often... so I doubt I'll do full speed for the race itself... most of the time )  Oh, and it's currently called the RocketCat 1-A... this will probably change!   I still need to put a bit more research into spring and damper settings, to make the ride as smooth as possible, but that'll come soon enough

(Oh, and to see an example of my rover style/driving style, click the 'Kerbin Circumnavigator' badge in my sig )

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

@Slam_Jones, what was that venting from the top of the rover after your Kerb did that skillful dismount (lol) ?

Your rover has the silhouette of an exaggerated Lamborghini Diablo. I love it. 

[mrmcp1]

Did some more tests on my car, can't seem to improve it so I am calling it finished

[Slam_Jones]

27 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

@Slam_Jones, what was that venting from the top of the rover after your Kerb did that skillful dismount (lol) ?

Your rover has the silhouette of an exaggerated Lamborghini Diablo. I love it. 

I have Kerbal Krash System installed, and I believe that was all the LF in my port tank escaping into the atmosphere.  That's why I checked the fuel level in the tank after the flip (and why it was disappearing so quickly!)  As a result, I might throw a pair of fuel lines so that if one tank suffers a puncture, I can still keep it powered by using the fuel in the other tank.  At worst, if it's punctured, try to get all the fuel over to the good tank without losing too much.  Still need to test this a bit more...

Looks like I might needs to re-position the roll bars so there's a little more air around them, help cushion any rollover impacts of that sort.  I don't want to lose my fuel that quickly!

(I'm also considering adding a tweakscaled ISRU facility to the rover if I can find space.  That, or develop a new VTOL fuel jet.)

Interestingly, one of the first hurdles in building this was thermal issues.  Before I added the active radiators, the intakes and engines would start to overheat within 10 minutes.  Now, with the active radiators, they can stay cool as long as need be (requires further testing, but so far they appear to work flawlessly).

I really like how the vehicles look with exposed lights and roof racks and such, but as you can see, my crashes are... violent.  Anything outside the roll cage usually ceases to exist pretty quickly

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

2 minutes ago, Slam_Jones said:

I have Kerbal Krash System installed, and I believe that was all the LF in my port tank escaping into the atmosphere.  That's why I checked the fuel level in the tank after the flip (and why it was disappearing so quickly!)  As a result, I might throw a pair of fuel lines so that if one tank suffers a puncture, I can still keep it powered by using the fuel in the other tank.  At worst, if it's punctured, try to get all the fuel over to the good tank without losing too much.  Still need to test this a bit more...

Looks like I might needs to re-position the roll bars so there's a little more air around them, help cushion any rollover impacts of that sort.  I don't want to lose my fuel that quickly!

(I'm also considering adding a tweakscaled ISRU facility to the rover if I can find space.  That, or develop a new VTOL fuel jet.)

Drop tank or trailer with extra fuel?

[DoctorDavinci]

@Slam_Jones - Just so you are aware ... When you become airborne your jet engines must either be at 0 throttle or be blocked by boost flaps

Using jet engines above 0 throttle without having the thrust blocked by boost flaps while in the air is considered flying under jet power

Also try and reduce your damper and spring settings as this will help with your buggy bouncing off of surfaces ... The lower settings will absorb the impact rather than launching you into the air

Edited December 17, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[Slam_Jones]

12 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Drop tank or trailer with extra fuel?

Not sure yet, to be honest.  If I can make a stable trailer, I may go with that.  (Plus it might look funny towing a trailer )

Ideally, though, I'll try to find a way to cram everything needed inside the current shape without having to modify the roll cage.  Easier said than done

 

11 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

@Slam_Jones - Just so you are aware ... When you become airborne your jet engines must either be at 0 throttle or be blocked by boost flaps

Using jet engines above 0 throttle without having the thrust blocked by boost flaps while in the air is considered flying under jet power

Oh, I see.  Supposing I rig some control surfaces so that when I activate the brakes, they lift up and cover the exhaust port, would that work?  (Or perhaps one set above, one set below, so they fold towards each other and cover the exhaust?)

If there were engines that only produce power when the rover has its wheels on the ground, I'll happily use that!  (But only if it has throttle control.  I'm not holding 'w' for an hour )

Or (and this might be a long shot since I've never used one) can I use a mod to automatically close/open the flaps at the appropriate time?

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DoctorDavinci]

1 minute ago, Slam_Jones said:

Oh, I see.  Supposing I rig some control surfaces so that when I activate the brakes, they lift up and cover the exhaust port, would that work?  (Or perhaps one set above, one set below, so they fold towards each other and cover the exhaust?)

This exactly ... @Azimech came up with the boost flap concept in his race track challenge

Watch the following and you will see how boost flaps work ... Pay attention to how the control surfaces block the thrust of the jet engines (the exhaust is not blocked but that is just a visual thing ... Juno's are the only engines that you can use this tech with)

 

[Slam_Jones]

2 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

This exactly ... @Azimech came up with the boost flap concept in his race track challenge

Watch the following and you will see how boost flaps work ... Pay attention to how the control surfaces block the thrust of the jet engines (the exhaust is not blocked but that is just a visual thing ... Juno's are the only engines that you can use this tech with)

-vid snip'd-

Ah, I see.  Cool.  Looks very tedious to keep up with though, especially on a longer race in rough terrain where my rover will bounce a lot... In which case, I may just use my rovers for amusement instead of the challenge.   Thanks!

[Azimech]

3 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Juno's are the only engines that you can use this tech with)

 

Actually all rocket engines and most jet engines are affected by it. Only the ones you can reverse not.

Oh, and RCS nozzles.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

5 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Actually all rocket engines and most jet engines are affected by it. Only the ones you can reverse not.

Oh, and RCS nozzles.

Is this a collider vs. transform behavior?

[Azimech]

1 minute ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Is this a collider vs. transform behavior?

That's a good question and you suddenly opened up a can of works.

Nobody ... I guess ... has tested if wheels can block the stream. My mind is racing right now!

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, Azimech said:

That's a good question and you suddenly opened up a can of works.

Nobody ... I guess ... has tested if wheels can block the stream. My mind is racing right now!

Haha. We're on the same page.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Anything with a solid collider can block a thrust transform, wheels may not be able to do it , as some of them only have colliders on the ignore wheel collider layerl which i suspect may make it transparent to thrust, but you never know. Also to be considered is the offset of the engines thrust transform, certain engine FX require a good distance between the eng and the transform so that the plume fx dont consume the model.

[DoctorDavinci]

29 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Actually all rocket engines and most jet engines are affected by it. Only the ones you can reverse not.

Oh, and RCS nozzles.

Did not know this ... thanx for the clarification

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

20 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Anything with a solid collider can block a thrust transform, wheels may not be able to do it , as some of them only have colliders on the ignore wheel collider layerl which i suspect may make it transparent to thrust, but you never know. Also to be considered is the offset of the engines thrust transform, certain engine FX require a good distance between the eng and the transform so that the plume fx dont consume the model.

Do you know if the CoT indicator in VAB/SPH centered in the thrust transform?