The Kerbal Dakar 2017 entry vehicles thread

[Majorjim!]

2 hours ago, Slam_Jones said:

Working on a few prototypes for the competition.  These are Jet-Powered, SAS-and-Reaction-Wheel-Assisted rovers that I'm working on at the moment (whatever category that would drop them into!)

How do those rover wheels survive?? Also, I guess it helps when you have a nearly indestructible mod part roll cage! What is the crash tolerance on that thing anyway?

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, Majorjim! said:

How do those rover wheels survive?? Also, I guess it helps when you have a nearly indestructible mod part roll cage! What is the crash tolerance on that thing anyway?

The tubes are all 80m/s tolerance. I chose that to match the stock structural components. 

[Slam_Jones]

5 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

How do those rover wheels survive?? Also, I guess it helps when you have a nearly indestructible mod part roll cage! What is the crash tolerance on that thing anyway?

I was wondering the same thing about 'Bills Big Bad Beaver!'  Mine tops out at 90m/s or so, but in the vid, the Beaver gets up to 140m/s!   I know in the past, those wheels would explode at 60m/s, so something has definitely changed.

And I've definitely lost parts of the roll cage before.  I've also gotten them knocked out of alignment with heavier crashes.

(Just realized: does Kerbal Krash System change the tolerances of these parts?   That may have something to do with it.)

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Slam_Jones said:

I was wondering the same thing about 'Bills Big Bad Beaver!'  Mine tops out at 90m/s or so, but in the vid, the Beaver gets up to 140m/s!   I know in the past, those wheels would explode at 60m/s, so something has definitely changed.

And I've definitely lost parts of the roll cage before.  I've also gotten them knocked out of alignment with heavier crashes.

(Just realized: does Kerbal Krash System change the tolerances of these parts?   That may have something to do with it.)

Hmm no idea, remove mod and test!

[Slam_Jones]

2 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

Hmm no idea, remove mod and test!

The only way to know for sure: trying it myself!  Will do

(In other news, I'm looking into kOS to see if I can have it automatically shut off or block thrusters while airborne)

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DoctorDavinci]

3 minutes ago, Slam_Jones said:

I was wondering the same thing about 'Bills Big Bad Beaver!'  Mine tops out at 90m/s or so, but in the vid, the Beaver gets up to 140m/s!   I know in the past, those wheels would explode at 60m/s, so something has definitely changed.

Well Bill's Big Bad Beaver is all stock with the exception of Rollcages ReRolled which is currently Dev access only at the moment ... I've got 3 Juno's pushing a vehicle that weighs in at a little over 3.5 tons (any heavier and it has a RUD when landing)

As for how the wheels are surviving ... well first I have found flat surfaces to drive over and I also make sure when I'm landing a jump that I am below 50m/s when the wheels touch the ground

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Slam_Jones said:

The only way to know for sure: trying it myself!  Will do

(In other news, I'm looking into kOS to see if I can have it automatically shut off or block thrusters while airborne.

Wheels now have no max top speed. They will never break like that. I just thought they looked impervious to impacts in your vid.

 You can use the surfaces to block it with a button push. I have seen folks use that method for a looong time.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

3 minutes ago, Slam_Jones said:

The only way to know for sure: trying it myself!  Will do

I suspect some screwiness. My most cage-y rover ("CageFighter MkIII")  wouldn't survive those crashes without losing some serious weight. 

Screwiness: crossed wires between mods, not implying a shifty player   

Edited December 17, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Slam_Jones]

Just now, Majorjim! said:

Wheels now have no max top speed. They will never break like that. I just thought they looked impervious to impacts in your vid.

 You can use the surfaces to block it with a button push. I have seen folks use that method for a looong time.

Ah, interesting.  I noticed on flat ground, usually, I get a wheel stress of <1.0.  I'll see if I can record the big impacts to see just how high that number goes.  But I agree: they don't look like they should be able to handle as much stress as I was putting on 'em there.

As for blocking it, I'm sure the button method works, but unless I seriously smooth out the ride on my rover, it's gonna be too tedious for me to honestly deal with properly.  Chances are, otherwise, I'll miss a lot of the jumps and end up with a possibly-disqualified entry.  If I can get kOS to shut off the thrusters whenever I'm airborne, then that should make it much easier on me

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

1 minute ago, Slam_Jones said:

Ah, interesting.  I noticed on flat ground, usually, I get a wheel stress of <1.0.  I'll see if I can record the big impacts to see just how high that number goes.  But I agree: they don't look like they should be able to handle as much stress as I was putting on 'em there.

As for blocking it, I'm sure the button method works, but unless I seriously smooth out the ride on my rover, it's gonna be too tedious for me to honestly deal with properly.  Chances are, otherwise, I'll miss a lot of the jumps and end up with a possibly-disqualified entry.  If I can get kOS to shut off the thrusters whenever I'm airborne, then that should make it much easier on me

If you figure out the KOS commands for such a thing, I'd be interested. I can think of another use for such a thing... 

[DoctorDavinci]

3 minutes ago, Slam_Jones said:

Ah, interesting.  I noticed on flat ground, usually, I get a wheel stress of <1.0.  I'll see if I can record the big impacts to see just how high that number goes.  But I agree: they don't look like they should be able to handle as much stress as I was putting on 'em there.

As for blocking it, I'm sure the button method works, but unless I seriously smooth out the ride on my rover, it's gonna be too tedious for me to honestly deal with properly.  Chances are, otherwise, I'll miss a lot of the jumps and end up with a possibly-disqualified entry.  If I can get kOS to shut off the thrusters whenever I'm airborne, then that should make it much easier on me

Thing is with turning off thrust on Junos is that when you go from max thrust to no thrust there is a spool down time just like there is a spool up time when going from 0 throttle to max

You would be better off setting up a KoS script to control the extend and retract on the boost flaps

Edited December 17, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[Slam_Jones]

10 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

If you figure out the KOS commands for such a thing, I'd be interested. I can think of another use for such a thing... 

It would be my first time working with kOS, but I'll see what I can come up with

Speaking of, would SHIP:STATUS refer to the states such as "Landed", "Splashed Down", "Sub-orbital", etc?  If so, I could possibly set it so that whenever the vessel if "FLYING" instead of "LANDED", it could enable boost flaps and/or shut off Junos.

 

9 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Thing is with turning off thrust on Junos is that when you go from max thrust to no thrust there is a spool down time just like there is a spool up time when going from 0 throttle to max

Ah, very good point.  Makes sense as to why the blocking method would be more favorable in that regard... instant response, and one can theoretically leave the Junos at full trot.  With good management of the flaps, I imagine you could get the rover to automatically straighten itself out in the air, as well.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, Slam_Jones said:

It would be my first time working with kOS, but I'll see what I can come up with

Speaking of, would SHIP:STATUS refer to the states such as "Landed", "Splashed Down", "Sub-orbital", etc?  If so, I could possibly set it so that whenever the vessel if "FLYING" instead of "LANDED", it could enable boost flaps and/or shut off Junos.

 

Ah, very good point.  Makes sense as to why the blocking method would be more favorable in that regard.

Ship status: no clue. Never used KOS either. Maybe it's referring to a parameter easily found in persistent.sfs? Be sure to add a few ms delay to that, so it doesn't switch on small terrain stutters, etc. probably something like "if then wait". 

[Slam_Jones]

5 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Ship status: no clue. Never used KOS either. Maybe it's referring to a parameter easily found in persistent.sfs? Be sure to add a few ms delay to that, so it doesn't switch on small terrain stutters, etc. probably something like "if then wait". 

Woo, I got some testing to do!

My other theory was the have kOS check for discrepensies between GROUNDSPEED and AIRSPEED but I'm not quite clever enough to figure out if anything valuable can be gained from checking the difference between the two.  (If AIRSPEED > GROUNDSPEED, then it's in the air, right?  Because since it would be traveling in a parabolic arc, it covers more air than it does ground?  Don't be too mean if I'm wrong )

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, Slam_Jones said:

Woo, I got some testing to do!

My other theory was the have kOS check for discrepensies between GROUNDSPEED and AIRSPEED but I'm not quite clever enough to figure out if anything valuable can be gained from checking the difference between the two.  (If AIRSPEED > GROUNDSPEED, then it's in the air, right?  Because since it would be traveling in a parabolic arc, it covers more air than it does ground?  Don't be too mean if I'm wrong )

Yeah, idk. Beware using orbital instead of surface. Your rover would end up preferring east over west haha. 

[Slam_Jones]

11 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Yeah, idk. Beware using orbital instead of surface. Your rover would end up preferring east over west haha. 

Hmm for sure, I'll be careful of that!  Thanks!

Edit: Starting to make progress here:

" The current status of the vessel possible results are: LANDED, SPLASHED, PRELAUNCH, FLYING, SUB_ORBITAL, ORBITING, ESCAPING and DOCKED. "

http://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS_DOC/structures/vessels/vessel.html#attribute:VESSEL:STATUS

Gonna throw Status onto my KER HUD so I can see just how frequently it flops between LANDED and FLYING.  And then, with that info and the observation that flaps take between 0.25 and 0.5 seconds to deploy (from what I've observed) I can start to get a few ideas here.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DoctorDavinci]

19 minutes ago, Slam_Jones said:

With good management of the flaps, I imagine you could get the rover to automatically straighten itself out in the air, as well.

Likely this is the case, however using your engines while 'in flight' is against the rules of the challenge

If your buggy is a meter or so off the ground I feel it would be acceptable, but if you launch into a decent size jump then using the jets to stabilize your trajectory would fall outside of the rules

@Triop should be the one to make the decision on this though since he is the challenge host

[Slam_Jones]

1 minute ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Likely this is the case, however using your engines while 'in flight' is against the rules of the challenge

If your buggy is a meter or so off the ground I feel it would be acceptable, but if you launch into a decent size jump then using the jets to stabilize your trajectory would fall outside of the rules

@Triop should be the one to make the decision on this though since he is the challenge host

Sorry, I should have clarified: using the aerodynamic properties of the extended flaps to create a lawn-dart-like profile so the nose naturally wants to face prograde, as opposed to using thrust vectoring to re-orient it.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[DoctorDavinci]

Just now, Slam_Jones said:

Sorry, I should have clarified: using the aerodynamic properties of the extended flaps to create a lawn-dart-like profile so the nose naturally wants to face prograde, as opposed to using thrust vectoring to re-orient it.

Careful ... using the SAS to point prograde will lead to head on collisions with the terrain at the speeds we are talking about here

I started with using the prograde deal in my testing and once you go over 50m/s you set yourself up for RUD's as your vector tends to intersect the terrain at bad angles causing explosions

The wheels can only take a certain intersect angle with the terrain at a given speed

[Slam_Jones]

19 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Careful ... using the SAS to point prograde will lead to head on collisions with the terrain at the speeds we are talking about here

I started with using the prograde deal in my testing and once you go over 50m/s you set yourself up for RUD's as your vector tends to intersect the terrain at bad angles causing explosions

The wheels can only take a certain intersect angle with the terrain at a given speed

Hm okay, I'll see how much changes when I remove Kerbal Krash System.  I'm starting to guess I'll have to re-think a few sections of the rover.

You can see if the video that it definitely wants to nose-dive from the air... but most of the time it is able to correct itself after a few small bounces.  I wonder if I can use kOS to grab the angle of the terrain below the rover, and attempt to position itself parallel to that...

Edit: Looks like I can adjust my SAS settings with kOS... I'll see if I can have it point prograde only when it's Status shows as Landed, and when it's in the air, revert to the parallel-to-terrain positioning mentioned above.

Edit #2: Alright, so they have a SHIP:HEIGHT variable and a GeoCoordinates:TERRAINHEIGHT variable.  By comparing these two, I should be able to have a second way of checking if the vessel is landed or flying.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Hi my fellow hooligans and disrupters of the peace and quiet  of Kerbin mountain regions. This evening i have a little treat for competitors in the DAKAR Kerbin edition, available for the duration of the competition only, and unfortunately only to mod using types and those who have KIS installed, of course you can have one if you don't use either of those things but it will only be ornamental.  A Race Helmet for your KERBS see spoiler below, please note that as soon as i reckon everyone has one i will remove the link ps it was to have a texture switch but sadly it doesn't work on kerbal eva (yet another thing, god i hate the current eva its so gimped) BUT i have left the textures there, so to change color simply rename one to the default png texture name and zip or delete the ones you don't want

 

Spoiler

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3ti4mimznrw5jom/SM_Racing.zip?dl=0

 

And on to my entry,  the upcoming video shows a weakness that will be sorted, but that aside this is it

 

[GDJ]

Nice Machine Spanner!

I can brag about my first success. It's a converted Crane Truck. The scientists at KSC were thinking this was tough enough, so they got the techs to strip off all the Crane Hydraulics, the Boom, Outriggers, PTO, Crane Controls, and installed some extra batteries, fuel/O2, fuel cells, more lights, a crew container (they were going to toss it out anyways) and a new antenna (Jeb broke the old one). They decided to keep the old power plant inside....just in case.

Top speed isn't stellar (<>30 and 35 m/s on the starting leg) but it's as tough as a Tank, and 1/2 a Kerbal high for ground clearance.


 

[DoctorDavinci]

27 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

And on to my entry,  the upcoming video shows a weakness that will be sorted, but that aside this is it

Looks like me gots some competition goin on here

[Draconiator]

Meh, I LOVE Junos.  but I would think they would be a liability with something such as this because they are FAR too powerful for their size.

 

Anywho, took a break for a bit, back to Dakar testing.  or Dakerb testing lol

 

Edit: Is there a color mod out there that works?  Triop made me want to color my car yellow.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Draconiator

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Thanks for the brain bucket, @SpannerMonkey(smce). I was looking for something like that  . Your rover looks prepared for war!