[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Mark One Laboratory Extensions (M.O.L.E.)

[Space Kadet]

there seems to be a bug where the cuda engine always has its effects on even b4 activating it.

[JadeOfMaar]

3 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

cuda engine

nVidia's pulling a fast one with AI tech.

[CBase]

On 3/27/2020 at 5:46 PM, Angel-125 said:

 in the experiment lab does the experiment list as completed?

Actually that is a good question, how do I tell and what is needed to complete ?

Actually I had to add Module WBIExperimentManifest in \WildBlueIndustries\000WildBlueTools\ModuleManagerPatches\MM_Stock.cfg or "Show Manifest" would not appear. As I look into the WBIExperimentLab definition I do see it creates a resource LabTime that is required for the experiement, but no stock part has the resource. In the screenshot there is a field "LabTime:" with no value. Is this the problem why the experiment does not complete ?

LabTime was on vessel base collected, when adding the resource I saw 36 LabTime in vessel overview.

I found out that I should "Start Experiment" somewhere, but somehow the GUI from WBIModuleScienceExperiment is missing, no idea why.

Edited April 1, 2020 by CBase
Investigated further into ScienceExperiment

[DStaal]

3 hours ago, CBase said:

Actually that is a good question, how do I tell and what is needed to complete ?

In the manifest window at the top, there is a text box with a scroll bar on the right.  At the bottom (scrolled out of view) is a listing of everything the selected experiment needs to complete.  (It doesn't list whether you have it or not there - just what's required.)

[CBase]

9 hours ago, DStaal said:

listing of everything the selected experiment needs to complete

I have all requirements:

Situation Orbiting or Landed: Checked as visible

Crew: 2 scientiest on board

LabTime 36 in vessel: checked (via display as a resource)

So why doesn't it complete ? There is a requirement that isn't listed or anywhere described like pressing a button and so. Shouldn't it display somewhere that it is completed ? It can not be found anywhere.

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, CBase said:

 

I have all requirements:

Situation Orbiting or Landed: Checked as visible

Crew: 2 scientiest on board

LabTime 36 in vessel: checked (via display as a resource)

So why doesn't it complete ? There is a requirement that isn't listed or anywhere described like pressing a button and so. Shouldn't it display somewhere that it is completed ? It can not be found anywhere.

it looks like the MPL doesn't have the gui showing. You'll need to:

Go to your WildBlueTools/ModuleManagerPatches/MM_Stock.cfg file.

Find the @PART[Large_Crewed_Lab] line.

Go to the WBIExperimentLab entry.

Find the isGUIVisible = false line, and change it to isGUIVisible = true.

Restart KSP. See if that helps. What you should see is something like this:

[CBase]

2 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

isGUIVisible = true

That's it ! Thank you !

Actually I had to edit the savegame as well, because my Lab on the Mun was created with the wrong value and the attribute is persistent.

[CBase]

I am afraid, I found another bug in Research Contracts:

If the contract requires a return to Home and you save and load after completion, the contract is never fulfilled. I did trace it down to experimentCompleted being false in a second save, although the WBIExpCompleteParam state is Complete.

In WildBlueTools/Contracts/WBIResearchContract.cs Load method you have:

if (node.HasValue("experimentCompleted"))

     bool.TryParse("blah", out experimentCompleted);

 

I do think it should be

experimentCompleted = false;

experimentCompleted = node.TryGetValue("experimentCompleted", out experimentCompleted ) && experimentCompleted; // only true if config has value and it is true

Edited April 10, 2020 by CBase

[Angelo Kerman]

MOLE 1.22.0 is now available:

- Shiny Solar Panels Update
- Bug fixes
- New modular LDEF experiment.

[Deathninja]

I'm not exaclty sure where to look with this, but struggling to make sense of the science mechanics here.

It's part of a larger issue with trying to find a modset that works well for me (currenltly using the WBI and USI stuff mainly, but USI-LS even though most of the WBI parts don't allow supplies).

At any rate I have a MOLE up in LKO loaded with the four experiments it has availible, but I'm not clear on the process:

- Once finished can they be transferred to a pod/Tarsier SSD/science crate or do they need to go into a WBI part configured for science (have a Coach 500 on the downmass portion just in case). Edit: Using "Store experiments" on the SSD and bringing that and the physical experiment back gave me duplicate rewards for a single experiment

- I'm running one now and sometimes I see a "Load: 150%" message, but I don't know what that means. Did have a DenEye active for some portion though although that seems independant of WBI/hijacked by TST.

- How do the timers for research kit usage/Labtime accumulation work? I can never remember what mods use 6hr = 1 day and 24hr = one day.

I've gone through the wiki but can't find an answer.

Thanks, sorry if I'm being dense.

Using 1.8.1 and the latest release here.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Deathninja

[vossiewulf]

What exactly is the experiment carrier for the M.O.L.E. module? I remember having this figured out a long time ago, but I've launched a station with a M.O.L.E. and it says it has no experiments for its slots.

Thanks again for your work, this is a single-launch space station with a crew of 11, with 304 days of hab time for each, and lots of science bits. It wouldn't be possible without Wild Blue parts.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by vossiewulf

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, vossiewulf said:

What exactly is the experiment carrier for the M.O.L.E. module? I remember having this figured out a long time ago, but I've launched a station with a M.O.L.E. and it says it has no experiments for its slots.

Thanks again for your work, this is a single-launch space station with a crew of 11, with 304 days of hab time for each, and lots of science bits. It wouldn't be possible without Wild Blue parts.

 

The experiment carrier is designed to load experiments for transport to a space station. The Coach Science template does this. Sadly that system is confusing for people, so I created the LDEF system to house individual experiments and still make use of the LabTime generated by the MOLE lab. I'm planning on making an alternate part to house experiments that's based on NASA's Getaway Special Cannister:

It would ideally be a single part that you then select the experiment but that may confuse people too. It would take the place of the older LDEF stuff. Both the LDEF parts and GAS Can work similarly to the old Station Science mod. At the time that I made Wild Blue Science, Station Science had been abandoned...

Edited June 10, 2020 by Angel-125

[vossiewulf]

19 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

The experiment carrier is designed to load experiments for transport to a space station. The Coach Science template does this. Sadly that system is confusing for people, so I created the LDEF system to house individual experiments and still make use of the LabTime generated by the MOLE lab. I'm planning on making an alternate part to house experiments that's based on NASA's Getaway Special Cannister:

It would ideally be a single part that you then select the experiment but that may confuse people too. It would take the place of the older LDEF stuff. Both the LDEF parts and GAS Can work similarly to the old Station Science mod. At the time that I made Wild Blue Science, Station Science had been abandoned...

Thanks for the quick reply Angel, and good, as I have 11 LDEF experiments on station plus one lab time generator along with the M.O.L.E. and have a mobile lab present to process the science so I don't take such a big penalty for not returning the LDEF experiments.

My take on these is that it would be easiest with labs if you just clicked on an experiment slot and up came a menu of possible experiments you can do (doesn't the Doc Science do this or used to?) and you focus on making the user bring the right raw materials. Plants, research kits, cryogenics, - maybe break research kits into multiple flavors that are required for various types of experiments? 

I would make experiments designed to be returned to Kerbin totally separate, and not require an associated lab. Just some resources. When you try to make a lab required, as you've seen it starts to get very complicated from a UI standpoint and I think you need to simplify. Each experiment should be independently returnable like Station Science, I think you could do some cool things with making a few parts designed to return your new experiments so a player could have an array of these experiments attached to the station, and the player undocks them and flies them down each in turn as they complete, using a slick little return pod that you design with integrated heat shield, engine, fuel, and parachutes. That's my two cents.

[Angelo Kerman]

13 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Thanks for the quick reply Angel, and good, as I have 11 LDEF experiments on station plus one lab time generator along with the M.O.L.E. and have a mobile lab present to process the science so I don't take such a big penalty for not returning the LDEF experiments.

My take on these is that it would be easiest with labs if you just clicked on an experiment slot and up came a menu of possible experiments you can do (doesn't the Doc Science do this or used to?) and you focus on making the user bring the right raw materials. Plants, research kits, cryogenics, - maybe break research kits into multiple flavors that are required for various types of experiments? 

I would make experiments designed to be returned to Kerbin totally separate, and not require an associated lab. Just some resources. When you try to make a lab required, as you've seen it starts to get very complicated from a UI standpoint and I think you need to simplify. Each experiment should be independently returnable like Station Science, I think you could do some cool things with making a few parts designed to return your new experiments so a player could have an array of these experiments attached to the station, and the player undocks them and flies them down each in turn as they complete, using a slick little return pod that you design with integrated heat shield, engine, fuel, and parachutes. That's my two cents.

WBI Science was designed with the idea that you ferry experiments to and from space stations. Just being able to select experiments in the lab would be counter to that goal. The LDEF and upcoming GAS cans let WBI Science work like the old Station Science, and like the older mod, it's up to players to figure out how to get the experiment pods home. With LDEV & GAS cans, the labs just produce the LabTime you need and the experiment parts collect the resources. Other parts generate other resources. For instance, the KH-10 DenEye generates ScopeTime, the Solar Observatory produces SolarReports, the Mk 1 Habitat produces Plants, and so on. All of these can be collected the the experiment parts. That's quite similar to how Station Science works.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[vossiewulf]

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

WBI Science was designed with the idea that you ferry experiments to and from space stations. Just being able to select experiments in the lab would be counter to that goal. The LDEF and upcoming GAS cans let WBI Science work like the old Station Science, and like the older mod, it's up to players to figure out how to get the experiment pods home. With LDEV & GAS cans, the labs just produce the LabTime you need and the experiment parts collect the resources. Other parts generate other resources. For instance, the KH-10 DenEye generates ScopeTime, the Solar Observatory produces SolarReports, the Mk 1 Habitat produces Plants, and so on. All of these can be collected the the experiment parts. That's quite similar to how Station Science works.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Thanks for the explanation, sounds like you have your plan nailed down  Ok, that will work.

[Bombaatu]

Will you and/or @linuxgurugamer be adding MOLE, DSEV and Heisenberg to CKAN like you have with BARIS, PathFinder & Buffalo?

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

Will you and/or @linuxgurugamer be adding MOLE, DSEV and Heisenberg to CKAN like you have with BARIS, PathFinder & Buffalo?

I do not add anything without a request from the author

[pmborg]

3 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

Will you and/or @linuxgurugamer be adding MOLE, DSEV and Heisenberg to CKAN like you have with BARIS, PathFinder & Buffalo?

Hello @Bombaatu

Heisenberg is on CKAN with the name "HooliganLabsAirships" probably is that mod, that you are looking for.

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

Will you and/or @linuxgurugamer be adding MOLE, DSEV and Heisenberg to CKAN like you have with BARIS, PathFinder & Buffalo?

TI want to see how things work out with Pathfinder first. My mods have a lot of interdependencies like Wild Blue Tools and Kerbal Actuators. If Pathfinder on CKAN is able to pick p the updates to those dependencis then I’ll know that my other mods can work with CKAN too.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Angel-125 I've learned a bit about how CKAN works on the granular level (for mod distribution). You can make all of your mods work fluidly. CKAN can install the Ships folder in your downloads into the proper place (outside of GameData), and can install only the select mod folders from a download into GameData (only Pathfinder) and ignore all the repeat stuff that occurs in all your downloads. Just ping @linuxgurugamer (like I'm doing here, hah! ) and tell him what you want or don't want, and also ask about, or tell him the relationships between your mods as classified by CKAN:

• recommends X other mod.
• depends on X.
• suggests optional X to install with it.
• conflicts with X.
• provides (is the source of) X. This works (I think) as when your mod contains some default settings that can be isolated into a sub-mod and omitted when other mods depend on this mod but need to override its settings, like when planet packs provide their own configs, sunflares and clouds for scatterer and EVE.

The WildBlueTools download will, for example, provide (by containing) all of these, seen as individual mods:

• WildBlueTools itself (install these folders: 000ABARISBridgeDoNotDelete, 000WildBlueTools)
• ClassicStock (depends on WildBlueTools; I'm not sure if it should be merged in under WildBlueTools or recommended by it. I must leave that for you to decide.)
• Kerbal Actuators (depends on WildBlueTools)

All of your mods (Pathfinder, Buffalo, DSEV, Airships, MOLE, Flying Saucers, Mk-33, Decals, your DLC servo thing whose name escapes me) will of course have depends: WildBlueTools. And each of your parts mods that has sample craft included, you'll need to point Linux to their Ships folders. And there will be some unique cases like:

• BARIS with conflicts: Kerbalism, DangIt!, X other failure mod. (But it works well with KCT, right? So maybe highlight it as a suggests.)
• Snacks! with conflicts: Kerbalism, TAC LS, USI LS... Kerbal Health too if you consider Stress!
• Pathfinder could have conflicts: MKS/Kolony Tools since these two base building mods are cores of equal, expansive and opposing game play schemes. Also: recommends: Buffalo, KIS, KAS, OSE Workshop; suggests: Extraplanetary Launchpads.
• Buffalo (is its own download but also included in the Pathfinder download) recommends: Pathfinder; suggests: ASET IVA/Near Future Props (Whichever IVA props pack you use, per mod of yours that has IVAs).

 

 

[Angelo Kerman]

6 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Angel-125 I've learned a bit about how CKAN works on the granular level (for mod distribution). You can make all of your mods work fluidly. CKAN can install the Ships folder in your downloads into the proper place (outside of GameData), and can install only the select mod folders from a download into GameData (only Pathfinder) and ignore all the repeat stuff that occurs in all your downloads. Just ping @linuxgurugamer (like I'm doing here, hah! ) and tell him what you want or don't want, and also ask about, or tell him the relationships between your mods as classified by CKAN:

• recommends X other mod.
• depends on X.
• suggests optional X to install with it.
• conflicts with X.
• provides (is the source of) X. This works (I think) as when your mod contains some default settings that can be isolated into a sub-mod and omitted when other mods depend on this mod but need to override its settings, like when planet packs provide their own configs, sunflares and clouds for scatterer and EVE.

The WildBlueTools download will, for example, provide (by containing) all of these, seen as individual mods:

• WildBlueTools itself (install these folders: 000ABARISBridgeDoNotDelete, 000WildBlueTools)
• ClassicStock (depends on WildBlueTools; I'm not sure if it should be merged in under WildBlueTools or recommended by it. I must leave that for you to decide.)
• Kerbal Actuators (depends on WildBlueTools)

All of your mods (Pathfinder, Buffalo, DSEV, Airships, MOLE, Flying Saucers, Mk-33, Decals, your DLC servo thing whose name escapes me) will of course have depends: WildBlueTools. And each of your parts mods that has sample craft included, you'll need to point Linux to their Ships folders. And there will be some unique cases like:

• BARIS with conflicts: Kerbalism, DangIt!, X other failure mod. (But it works well with KCT, right? So maybe highlight it as a suggests.)
• Snacks! with conflicts: Kerbalism, TAC LS, USI LS... Kerbal Health too if you consider Stress!
• Pathfinder could have conflicts: MKS/Kolony Tools since these two base building mods are cores of equal, expansive and opposing game play schemes. Also: recommends: Buffalo, KIS, KAS, OSE Workshop; suggests: Extraplanetary Launchpads.
• Buffalo (is its own download but also included in the Pathfinder download) recommends: Pathfinder; suggests: ASET IVA/Near Future Props (Whichever IVA props pack you use, per mod of yours that has IVAs).

 

 

Cool! That sounds about right. Good to know that CKAN will look to the dependencies and install them instead of what's included in the zip. Thanks for the info! If that's the case then I definitely would like to see MOLE, DSEV, and the rest on CKAN as well. But not Kerbal Komets, we don't need that anymore...

Edited July 21, 2020 by Angel-125

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Cool! That sounds about right. Good to know that CKAN will look to the dependencies and install them instead of what's included in the zip. Thanks for the info! If that's the case then I definitely would like to see MOLE, DSEV, and the rest on CKAN as well. But not Kerbal Komets, we don't need that anymore...

Let me know if you want me to do this.  I would need a list of dependencies for each mod

[Angelo Kerman]

27 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Let me know if you want me to do this.  I would need a list of dependencies for each mod

MOLE: (repo: https://github.com/Angel-125/MOLE)

- Dependencies: WildBlueTools, KerbalActuators, BARISBridge

- Recommends: Snacks, ClassicStockResources, Extraplanetary Launchpads, KIS, KAS, ASET, ASETAvionics

DSEV: (repo: https://github.com/Angel-125/DSEV)

- Dependencies: WildBlueTools, KerbalActuators, BARISBridge

- Recommends: Snacks, ClassicStockResources, Extraplanetary Launchpads, KIS, KAS, ASET, ASETAvionics

Heisenberg Airships: (repo: https://github.com/Angel-125/HLAirships)

- Dependencies: WildBlueTools, KerbalActuators, BARISBridge, Hooligan Labs

- Recommends: Snacks, ClassicStockResources, Extraplanetary Launchpads, KIS, KAS, ASET, ASETAvionics

Buffalo: (repo: https://github.com/Angel-125/Buffalo)

- Dependencies: WildBlueTools, KerbalActuators, BARISBridge

- Recommends: Snacks, ClassicStockResources, Extraplanetary Launchpads, KIS, KAS, ASET, ASETAvionics

Kerbal Flying Saucers and Mk-33 aren't done yet, so I'd like to hold off from adding them to CKAN until they're ready. Thanks again

[1990eam]

Does this work on 1.10.1?

[DerekL1963]

11 hours ago, 1990eam said:

Does this work on 1.10.1?

I haven't tried any of the science bits, but everything else seems to work.