LordFerret Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Lisias said: We are already in a verge of an extinction event. We have been here a long, long, long time ... longer than our knowledged history tells us. Everything that has happened, everything that is happening, is all a part of the normal course of life on this planet ... and being we are a part of it, everything we do is also a part of that normal course. We'll adapt, as we always have and always will. So, unless NASA finds and announces that planet-killer asteroid or comet heading our way no question... Put your crystal ball away. Musk, rockets, and Mars. So far he's been lucky with his rockets. Everything else? Not so. The first mistake one of his rockets makes ... loses a billion+ dollar satellite, or a life ... and his program will be shut down for years. Unlike NASA, I'm not so sure Musk can absorb the loss. 10 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said: My butt hurts to sit on Interesting. I'm finding at my age, everything hurts ... my butt the least of which. Edited July 19, 2018 by LordFerret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Let's hope it doesn't, then, since Musk and Bezos are literally the only hope for anything really interesting happening in spaceflight during our lifetimes. Minus new space, the Moon will be perpetually 10 years away, and Mars, etc, 20+ years away. If it's on a NASA schedule, we're either really old men or dead before new footprints are anywhere off the Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) "Oba! Peleja" - someone has some molten cheese? [snip] On 7/19/2018 at 7:06 AM, LordFerret said: We have been here a long, long, long time ... longer than our knowledged history tells us. Everything that has happened, everything that is happening, is all a part of the normal course of life on this planet ... and being we are a part of it, everything we do is also a part of that normal course. We'll adapt, as we always have and always will. So, unless NASA finds and announces that planet-killer asteroid or comet heading our way no question... Put your crystal ball away. That ball is not mine (that phrase sounds weird ). We have evidences that we are running out of Fresh Water, exhausting our ocean's capacity of producing oxygen, some scientists are screaming about an imminent global warming (the last time we had so much carbon on our atmosphere, the South Pole was a Tropical Forest), and some others are telling that a new Ice Age is near, as the present Warm Window is simply the longest one that they observed on the historical registers from the pole's ice drillings. There's a reason why all the known human history have about 10.000 years: it's the time since the last Ice Age. Ice Age erases everything, the ices smash and triturates everything as it advances and recedes. We have perhaps one or two evidences of civilization before that, one of them Yonaguni - being them underwater can be an explanation for the survival. I'll spare you from the myriad of links about those matters - we are not scientists anyway, how we could understood such data in order to have a proper informed opinion? It's better that each one do his own research. So, yeah. In the next 50 years our civilization will be struggling to adapt - and the resources needed for Space Exploration will be withhold by populist governments in order to try to maintain peace. — EDIT — but granted… Perhaps I should had type "near extinction". — END OF EDIT — On 7/19/2018 at 7:06 AM, LordFerret said: Musk, rockets, and Mars. So far he's been lucky with his rockets. Everything else? Not so. The first mistake one of his rockets makes ... loses a billion+ dollar satellite, or a life ... and his program will be shut down for years. Unlike NASA, I'm not so sure Musk can absorb the loss. This information does not apply. No one (but Facebook) is dumb enough to launch satellites without insurance. It's expected that one will be lost now and then - Russia blew it recently, China did it, and the list goes on. And Musk probably vowed to never again allow a launch without insurance: I think Bezos is taking greater risks in killing people. He is the one willing to kick Tourists into space - and Virgin Galactic already killed one of their own. I think both will be fine. People will die in the Space Exploration. Edited July 31, 2018 by Vanamonde hit "save" too soon; and some bad grammars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorabh Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Lisias said: Bezos is taking greater risks in killing people Yeah, and he realizes that. Hence not that much hype. Also, I found this: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8678321B2/en This is a patent filed by Jeff Bezos and his assosciates, about sea landing of space launch vehicles.... So if Bezos already has a patent over the Barge method of sea landing, then is Elon copying Bezos' patent?...Because this came out in 2009, there were no grasshopper tests in 2009... I am a bit confused, can Bezos sue Musk? Edited July 19, 2018 by Sorabh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sorabh said: Yeah, and he realizes that. Hence not that much hype. Nah. All he need to say is "You're rocketing it wrong" and he will be fine. Really, we are living in strange times. 3 minutes ago, Sorabh said: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8678321B2/en This is a patent filed by Jeff Bezos and his assosciates, about sea landing of space launch vehicles.... So if Bezos already has a patent over the Barge method of sea landing, then is Elon copying Bezos' patent?...Because this came out in 2009, there were no grasshopper tests in 2009... I am a bit confused, can Bezos sue Musk? Not yet. The patent must be accepted first. Also, patents protect implementations, not ideas. Musk must copy the very same hardware in order to be loose a dispute. Not impossible (patent trolling exists because now and then they succeed), but unlikely IMHO. And Musk has his own patents too, I don't think he is a guy to be patent trolled unchecked, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFerret Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Lisias said: And Musk probably vowed to never again allow a launch without insurance I think you're missing the point here. "Insurance" isn't the answer. A test pilot dying is one thing... a commercial passenger is another. Think NASA Shuttle; How many years was the Shuttle grounded? Be it Bezos or Musk, when it does happen (and it will), if it's here in the US (can't speak for elsewhere) they will be grounded 'until'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, LordFerret said: I think you're missing the point here. "Insurance" isn't the answer. A test pilot dying is one thing... a commercial passenger is another. Think NASA Shuttle; How many years was the Shuttle grounded? Be it Bezos or Musk, when it does happen (and it will), if it's here in the US (can't speak for elsewhere) they will be grounded 'until'. Nops. The reason private companies are being in charge is exactly that: they can kill people and still be on business. See the airplanes companies: how many years Airbus was "grounded" when the Air France 447 crashed in the Atlantic? How many A330 were forbidden to take off? Yeah. Sorry, but private companies answers to no one but their investors. NASA must answer to the Public Opinion or they loose the money - NASA is funded by the Congress, that answer to their electors. People die in cars, airplanes, ships and crossing the streets. They will die in space too. Nothing new. Edited July 19, 2018 by Lisias and typos! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, LordFerret said: I think you're missing the point here. "Insurance" isn't the answer. A test pilot dying is one thing... a commercial passenger is another. Think NASA Shuttle; How many years was the Shuttle grounded? Be it Bezos or Musk, when it does happen (and it will), if it's here in the US (can't speak for elsewhere) they will be grounded 'until'. Yeah, I don't think a LOC incident will be fatal to business at all. It will happen at some point, and they will push on. I agree that in the modern world people are risk averse, but I think that everyone also knows that early adopters of space travel are doing something risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFerret Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lisias said: A330 You need to go back and review your history. The entire A330 fleet was (essentially) grounded until all craft were inspected - at the owners cost. You think insurance was the answer to that? You don't think their insurance rates went through the roof? And what about investor losses they took throughout the debacle? How about most recently, the GE engine which blew up? Every single plane in the world was grounded until each plane's engines were inspected. You think GE didn't take a hit on that? Looked at their stock lately? You seem convinced any such event will just slather over and be ignored and life will go on. Well, indeed, life will go on... but not at the pace you're thinking. I'm just going to sit back now and wait it out and watch. We'll be discussing the subject again at some point. Edited July 19, 2018 by LordFerret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, LordFerret said: You need to go back and review your history. The entire A330 fleet was (essentially) grounded until all craft were inspected - at the owners cost. You think insurance was the answer to that? You don't think their insurance rates went through the roof? And what about investor losses they took throughout the debacle? From the link you gave: "The FAA gave airlines 120 days to replace devices that could be giving false airspeed indications. [snip] US Airways, one of only two American carriers who fly planes affected by the order, said Thursday they had already replaced the part." Airbus is still in business, by the way. It doesn't matter what I think. What's matter is what effectively happens in the Real Life. Airbus is still in business, the A330 fleet is still flying, and the insurances were paid. It's how things work. Just like that. 13 hours ago, LordFerret said: How about most recently, the GE engine which blew up? Every single plane in the world was grounded until each plane's engines were inspected. You think GE didn't take a hit on that? Looked at their stock lately? Did you gave a look on Boeing stock prices when a lot of 747 had hull losses in the 70's? It was bad. The Teneriffe disaster was particularly bad. But Boeing is still in business. And doing pretty good, as it appears. It's all about risk management. And dying people are handled as one risk to be managed. It's this way on every vehicle industry on the planet, from GM to Airbus, from Mitsubishi to Virgin Galactic. It will happen - sooner or later, someone will die due a vehicle manufactured by them, so they save money to be used on insurances, compensations and P/R . It's part of the operating costs. 13 hours ago, LordFerret said: You seem convinced any such event will just slather over and be ignored and life will go on. Well, indeed, life will go on... but not at the pace you're thinking. It will not be ignored. It happens that it will be eventually forgotten, as every single disaster in history - from Hindenburg to Titanic, including the Concorde. The Hindenburg didn't caused the end of the Blimps, it was the huge cost. As hydrogen revealed too dangerous, the cost to use helium was just unsurpassable. That accident were just the last drop, the airplanes were already taking the place. The Titanic didn't caused the end of the massive transatlantics - they are still around (and some of them are still sinking and killing people). The end of the Concorde was caused by 9/11. The entire fleet were revamped after that terrible accident (the only one in the history of the plane), but then 9/11 happened, trashing the more rentable international trips that Concorde needed to be viable. Boeing, Airbus, et all… How many people do you think their aircrafts had killed? So… 13 hours ago, LordFerret said: I'm just going to sit back now and wait it out and watch. We'll be discussing the subject again at some point. In the mean time, do some research and see how many Billion USD worth companies had closed due fatal accidents. The blow can be big, but they usually survive it. Granted, not every single one of them had survived the hit (de Havilland and their Comet came to my mind) - but most of them, yes. Statistically, the odds benefits Virgin Galactic and Space-X. Edited July 20, 2018 by Lisias typos. but you already knew it. - a bit of new info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunjo Carl Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 19 hours ago, Mark Kerbin said: Love how this thread can go from, “da heck you doing SpaceX?!”, to, “my butt hurts.” in the blink of an eye. Speaking of which my eye hurts Yeah! I guess different things bug different people. I guess it also happens to annoy me when people are interested in SpaceX to the exclusion of other rockets, but I guess I've been lucky that most people I've met were interested in SpaceX as the starting point for other rockets. As an example, my mom was talking about the Falcon Heavy launch right after it aired, and I explained that interestingly rockets had been landing for ages (that's what the shuttle did after all), but now they're landing the fuel tank too and using cheaper engines which is the really exciting part. I went on to explain that other companies are trying to land their rockets too, but went in the opposite direction like Skylon!... and so on. Now I have great parents, and I'm sure my mom would humor me regardless, but unlike before the SpaceX hype she was actually interested in having a conversation about aerospace! Contrasting this are cases like @Sorabh's, where people think SpaceX has a monopoly on being awesome, which sounds frustrating at best. So I guess the good and bad come together. Can't say anything good about a painful derriere though. Except, that I'm glad it's not a painful everything else! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1t1o Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I hate it when people say things like "He realises that..." or "He thinks that..." or "He probably..." or "He would just..." Like, no, probably you cant read minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, p1t1o said: I hate it when people say things like "He realises that..." or "He thinks that..." or "He probably..." or "He would just..." Like, no, probably you cant read minds. So, probably you think that you just have realized this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorabh Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I can't tell if I should complain about this, or have a good laugh! Read this article, and if possible, a couple more by the author! http://www.newspaceagency.com/articles/03notblueoriginidea.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phil Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 8 hours ago, p1t1o said: I hate it when people say things like "He realises that..." or "He thinks that..." or "He probably..." or "He would just..." Like, no, probably you cant read minds. Trying to understand what others are thinking or how they would react is important. It's not an easy thing to do, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1t1o Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Bill Phil said: Trying to understand what others are thinking or how they would react is important. It's not an easy thing to do, though. Empathy is certainly important, essential even, but it cant be used as evidence - "That accusation is false because I feel he would never..." Edited July 20, 2018 by p1t1o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) I think my Workstation's videocard is toasted. While moving the workstation for disassembling it I dropped the thing a few inches from the ground, what for a mammoth weighting more than 100 pounds, it's something. The things is rock solid (it's a old Dell). No issues but a dent on the ground. But I could not help but to remember this: (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19) Well… I'm feeling somewhat better by looking on it. Edited July 26, 2018 by Lisias better phrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lisias said: I think my Workstation's videocard is toasted. While disassembling it I dropped the thing a few inches from the ground, what for a mammoth weighting more than 100 pounds, it's something. The things is rock solid (it's a old Dell). No issues but a dent on the ground. But I could not help but to remember this: (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19) Well… I'm feeling somewhat better by looking on it. Could be worse... Edited July 21, 2018 by StrandedonEarth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Quote While the turn-over cart used during the procedure was in storage, a technician removed twenty-four bolts securing an adapter plate to it without documenting the action. Justum et tenacem propositi virum Edited July 21, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfiles Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) When a friend calls you at 3 in the morning (on a work night) to inform you his GPS isn't giving good directions (when it mentions other states... Uh, no...), and he is asking you for directions, but he keeps hanging up to check the GPS... Edited July 21, 2018 by richfiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 2/21/2017 at 4:08 PM, adsii1970 said: But since this is a thread about complaints... I hate having students that don't turn in assignments and do not attend class - then cry that the grade they are earning isn't fair. On my youth, I got a job as a teacher/trainer/whatever on a small tech school, that ones in which companies send their unskilled employees for training. I once had two students that never attended the class, they took the 'free paid time" to drink/party/whatever. On the exams, they virtually called me every 5 minutos asking what to do. The worst part was that the school had a terrible agreement with the employers guaranteeing that the student will be allowed to redo the class for free until he is able to pass the grade - but without a exception for no show. Conclusion? Yeah, I had to allow the… guys… to walk away. I give them the smallest possible grade, but had to give them that. I resigned a few months later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I thought Spotify is going to be better than buying CD/Cassette (?) and is better than streaming through YouTube or just pop up the radio. I was wrong. Can I just pay once to download a single thing once ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, YNM said: Can I just pay once to download a single thing once ??? Yes. Unfortunately, the Forum Rules prevent me to tell you how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1t1o Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lisias said: Yes. Unfortunately, the Forum Rules prevent me to tell you how. He did say "pay" And yeah @YNM, old school music acquisition was way simpler and user friendly. Remember when you could actually borrow a tape off someone? Remember when you only needed a single set of headphones? Edited July 26, 2018 by p1t1o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1 hour ago, p1t1o said: He did say "pay" And yeah @YNM, old school music acquisition was way simpler and user friendly. Remember when you could actually borrow a tape off someone? Remember when you only needed a single set of headphones? I go on Amazon Music. I buy the album. I download it to Windows Media Player. I burn it to CD. I play it in my truck's CD player. My friends all laugh at me because I'm old. I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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