Damien_The_Unbeliever Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 On 1/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, tater said: I have my fingers crossed for normal—but all the "land on the launch mount" ideas since the very first BFR announcements have seemed insane to me. And yet, hear my out, the SpaceX engineers have still built this thing. They're not going by gut feelings. They're not going by "lets build this thing and see if it can catch a descending stage". They are going by a sincere belief that they have built something that, by the numbers, is going to work. So, maybe, since they have built this entire structure, wait and see if it will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 26 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said: wait and see if it will work ...or watch and rewatch the glorious slo-mo explosion. Then watch again as they rebuild, and almost get it right. Then watch yet again as they get it right - and then change everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 41 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: ...or watch and rewatch the glorious slo-mo explosion. Then watch again as they rebuild, and almost get it right. Then watch yet again as they get it right - and then change everything. "How not to catch mid air an orbital class booster" by SpaceX, 2023 New Raptor 2 static fires, now from the vertical test stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicTech Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Just now, Beccab said: "How not to catch mid air an orbital class booster" by SpaceX, 2023 I can't wait to watch that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKI Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 I just watched a video on Starlink and a question hit me. Whats the breakdown as to why SpaceX never launches more Starlink satellites with a Falcon heavy? I'm pretty sure its due to costs... but what are the costs breakdowns compared to how many more satellites you can send up? I'm sure there is a clear cut answer out there somewhere, but idk what it is haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, MKI said: I just watched a video on Starlink and a question hit me. Whats the breakdown as to why SpaceX never launches more Starlink satellites with a Falcon heavy? I'm pretty sure its due to costs... but what are the costs breakdowns compared to how many more satellites you can send up? I'm sure there is a clear cut answer out there somewhere, but idk what it is haha. Well, the first think that comes to my mind is the fairing. Until the extended fairing comes online next year the size is the same as the F9 one, which is usually full of Starlink already (when it has the full complement of 60ish satellites at least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) Never asked this, but: is Booster tall enough to have the leverage to capsize their current drone ships if caught with some kind of upgraded clamp attached to the drone? Is that why they need the oil rigs? Finally - could one of those Russian Heavy Lift helicopters snatch one off a rig and tote it back to land? Edited January 7, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKI Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 16 minutes ago, Beccab said: Well, the first think that comes to my mind is the fairing. Until the extended fairing comes online next year the size is the same as the F9 one, which is usually full of Starlink already (when it has the full complement of 60ish satellites at least) They can't just build a bigger faring to maximize the life capabilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 minute ago, MKI said: They can't just build a bigger faring to maximize the life capabilities? That's what the extended fairing that comes in 2022 for the USAF and the Gateway modules is, but this isn't as in KSP. Most rockets have usually only 1 or 2 fairing sizes, to simplify the aerodynamic profiles and reduce costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, MKI said: I just watched a video on Starlink and a question hit me. Whats the breakdown as to why SpaceX never launches more Starlink satellites with a Falcon heavy? I'm pretty sure its due to costs... but what are the costs breakdowns compared to how many more satellites you can send up? I'm sure there is a clear cut answer out there somewhere, but idk what it is haha. Falcon Heavy center core is cursed and can never be recovered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, MKI said: I just watched a video on Starlink and a question hit me. Whats the breakdown as to why SpaceX never launches more Starlink satellites with a Falcon heavy? I'm pretty sure its due to costs... but what are the costs breakdowns compared to how many more satellites you can send up? I'm sure there is a clear cut answer out there somewhere, but idk what it is haha. Agree, also efficiency and that they never been able to recover an core and that they are working on an way more capable rocket. Assume SpaxeX see falcon heavy as an dead end design now, still happy to accept contracts as its the most capable rocket flying today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 5 hours ago, magnemoe said: that they never been able to recover an core and that they are working on an way more capable rocket To be fair it only actually crashed twice, the other time it landed but hard seas sent it out of the drone ship iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Nice diagrams showing the chopsticks' range of motion. The area where a catch is possible is bigger than it appears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 The recent Starlink launch, tracked from the groud up until after fairing separation (!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Surprised this hasn't been spotted yet. Everything is so perfectly timed Other view: Edited January 10, 2022 by Beccab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 This tower can provide the optical terralunar communication. Spoiler If attach flags and use a telescope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Mechazilla is now being certified as a crane, so that it can lift starships and boosters later on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Obviously it would be a problem if the booster came in clocked by 90 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXBLOX Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, mikegarrison said: Obviously it would be a problem if the booster came in clocked by 90 degrees. I wonder what kind of roll authority they have on Superheavy during descent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 39 minutes ago, SOXBLOX said: I wonder what kind of roll authority they have on Superheavy during descent... A ring of 6 engines PLUS grid fins PLUS RCS thrusters… roll authority should be the least of their worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Hmm. Look at this picture. Do you see the issue there? Look at how on one edge of the arc the image shows the SH clocked one way, and on the other edge of the arc it is clocked the other way. That would be super convenient, but if they had enough control to get that kind of precision then they wouldn't be landing out on the edge anyway. What does it look like if you have the roll controlled and bring in in like it is in the middle, but it drifts laterally? It looks like at the very least the arm might catch only one grid fin on each side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, mikegarrison said: Hmm. Look at this picture. Do you see the issue there? Look at how on one edge of the arc the image shows the SH clocked one way, and on the other edge of the arc it is clocked the other way. That would be super convenient, but if they had enough control to get that kind of precision then they wouldn't be landing out on the edge anyway. What does it look like if you have the roll controlled and bring in in like it is in the middle, but it drifts laterally? It looks like at the very least the arm might catch only one grid fin on each side. Not completely angled in the right direction - it is known they have roughly 15 degrees of tolerance on either direction when being caught without missing the hardpoints I see your point but personally I'm not worried about rotation being wrong since that's easily controllable separately from the landing with RCS, and grid fins act as the backup in case even that fails (so that they are damaged on the bottom, but the rest of rocket is fine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Beccab said: Not completely angled in the right direction - it is known they have roughly 15 degrees of tolerance on either direction when being caught without missing the hardpoints I see your point but personally I'm not worried about rotation being wrong since that's easily controllable separately from the landing with RCS, and grid fins act as the backup in case even that fails (so that they are damaged on the bottom, but the rest of rocket is fine). The point is that this guy LunarCaveman seems to have completely not realized that the available catching span is nowhere near as big as he is imagining. Let's say they have perfect roll control, and bring it down in the exact alignment they intended. In that case, they can only move off the target far enough to create a 15 degree angle, or else they will miss that 15 degree window you refer to. This whole maneuver is going to be extremely dynamic, and they are going to need very precise landings. We have seen that Falcon 9 usually lands inside that painted circle on the deck, and if they can get that same precision then that should be good enough. But the stakes are a lot higher, because it's not just a barge in the ocean that is at risk -- it's your whole launch tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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