Multiplayer in KSP 1.8

[Mr. Peabody]

This thread is more malignant than the lernaean hydra.

[Tyko]

2 hours ago, Chumpes said:

that is exactly the point, it could make the game even more fun and realistic !

one should wait months before reaching other planets and well anticipate its manoeuvres =)

To anyone who thinks the game can be played w/o time warp...help us out and demonstrate that this is fun/playable...Just do a Kerbin local system mission - here's your challenge:

Launch an Apollo / Saturn V style mission to the Mun including using a separate lander and a lunar orbit rendezvous and NEVER use time warp for the entire mission. This is a very classic mission that many players try and it's not too time consuming by space travel standards.

Play the whole thing without time warp and report back on your experience. The whole mission should take less than a week. I'm particularly interested in how you plan your schedule for the week around various mission stages...Do you set alarms? Do you carry a laptop with you the whole week? Since you can't time warp you have to leave the game running to move time forward. If you're taking your game with you on a laptop how do you keep the game running continuously?

Oh, and don't forget that you can't save and reload because you can't go back in time. So if something goes horribly wrong you have to launch a new mission.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Tyko

[linuxgurugamer]

2 hours ago, Chumpes said:

that is exactly the point, it could make the game even more fun and realistic !

one should wait months before reaching other planets and well anticipate its manoeuvres =)

I can only assume you are being sarcastic

[Tyko]

5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I can only assume you are being sarcastic

Perhaps @Chumpes was being sarcastic LOL...regardless, my challenge still stands for anyone who actually believes you can play w/o time warp

[linuxgurugamer]

40 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Perhaps @Chumpes was being sarcastic LOL...regardless, my challenge still stands for anyone who actually believes you can play w/o time warp

No argument here, I just was reading that, and it really came across as sarcastic.

[EchoLima]

Multiplayer can work in some limited scenarios, like in a Making History mission or with aircraft limited to Kerbin. 

[Kerbinchaser]

Credit to @StrandedonEarth

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Lo Var Lachland

[mattinoz]

2 hours ago, Lo Var Lachland said:

Credit to @cratercracker

 

At the end that was the problem, Batman's upbringing and backstory of extreme trauma made him very conservative.

Tony Stark could make it work but it would crash a fair bit.  Tony is flexible enough to work thru a little paradox to get to a solution.  Still what it really needs is Bill Murry "It's ground hog day, again"

 

[Jatwaa]

I think DMP and LMP have already shown that it COULD work, but my time in talking with the devs show that KSP itself would have to change in a fashion that would take some rewriting. 

Time warp - Handled in LMP and DMP as options per server. Read the following for great detail: https://github.com/LunaMultiplayer/LunaMultiplayer/wiki/Timewarp

Physics - yes, this would be a problem. But only if EVERY part was considered as a part that needs to be calculated. If you take a craft that has 200 parts and calculate it as 200 parts then add in 5 more, yes, it would be a bit of a hassle. Or have the 200 part craft calculated as one part, combined mass, shape and drag. As parts are detached, recalculate. Make this an option. Can have the server assist on the physics calculations as an option. There are ways (probably better than what I mentioned) to handle this, talk with experienced implementers who have experience to determine the feasibility. This is a speed bump not a wall. 

Mods - LMP and DMP have shown that Mod Control is feasible via DMP\LMP ModControl files designating what is approved and not. They also have the option to allow the craft to fly or not and to prevent access to the server altogether without the appropriate mods. 

Trolls - It happens. Have a backup procedure built into the server as well as a Blacklist and log. If the person is found to be a troll, blacklist them and roll back to the last save. Leave it up to the server hosts to determine if they will list the trolls on a website of shame/warning. 

The ONLY problem I would find would be the Syncing of the physics. But, if the server could have a hand in that, it might be feasible enough to sync at a descent speed. In testing with LMP, we have landed crafts on crafts and docked in orbit. The server I host has a 1ms sync set, it can be very fluid at times, but part counts w/physics tends to cause hiccups. For VERY large things, we still weld. Part count is the killer with the way they are processed. 

There are only so much re-skins that can occur. I had more fun playing in DMP\LMP with KIS than I had in years, and I am over 6k hours in now. Currently I play LMP with mods and when we keep part counts low and fly together its amazing. One guy flew to orbit behind another guy, following him to orbit. To me, that is well worth the risk of multiplayer re-coding. 

[Fraston]

Can we stop with the multiplayer? Please? Ask me if I want multiplayer, and I will respond as a resounding no.  The game is an amazing single player game, and It might ruin the charm of KSP for me if it goes into that corner. I enjoy having an environment where no one can hear you scream (in frustration) and you must work the problem out by yourself. 

Multiplayer actually works for a game like Besiege, where your creations load instantly, and the game is better designed for this kind of thing,  going down the multiplayer mohole 3 years after releasing. 

With KSP, you would need a vast amount of recoding, and just, just NO.

modders gonna mod, I’m just not on the side that *incredbly*chalantly changes the title to the next version.

[StrandedonEarth]

[Kerbinchaser]

12 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Nope. 

[Lammet]

I don't have friends who have KSP plus it's already laggy af

[Kerbinchaser]

3 hours ago, Lammet said:

I don't have friends who have KSP plus it's already laggy af

Why do I feel like this statement and your profile picture go together perfectly?

[mattinoz]

On 2/3/2019 at 7:36 AM, StrandedonEarth said:

Yet every thread about it doesn't slip quietly on to page 2 to be forgotten*. Instead, the same points get rehashed.  People are set in their ways no new ground is covered and the discussion is hardly changing the prospect of it happening.

*fully aware that saying this will bump the thread to the top again and all of the point apply as much to myself as anyone else.

[Arugela]

If it had an easy room to allow players of KSP to connect with each other that would be interesting. Assuming they resolve the issue with lag and parts count etc. They just need to make sure to put in stuff for white/black listing players in case. Making any multiplayer under the assumption of no problems would be a massive mistake. And it's easy to do on a basic level.

[BadLeo]

<S>

Yes, I kinda feel we should stop discussing KSP MP. It takes nowhere because:

a) People who don't want it won't understand that an eventual MP mode won't take away the SP mode;

b) Said people won't allow a proper discussion to happen without derailing it, falling on circular reasoning, snow ball or strawman fallacies, or simply trying to shut it down with quasi-authoritarian claims about how MP would ruin their beloved SP game;

c) People who actually want KSP MP will wait whatever time it takes to get it, although from time to time they'll nudge the devs, because of the anxiety resulting from the expectation and the lack of words coming from them;

Yeah, let's not talk about KSP MP. Let's talk about politics, instead. Even considering the current political climate, it looks like it is a less toxic topic to go on with, here.

</S>

Diary entry nº. 178.189.665:

Booted my KSP 1.6 for the first time, today, after a long time away from the game. Still no MP. Disappointing? Maybe, but the hope is not lost, at all. Fellow rebel forumates are still going on with the struggle against the Empire of the Singleplayers. New recruits join our ranks by the thousands every day! We WILL prevail! Our cause isn't lost! Our fight to end the tyranny of playing KSP alone is honorable by itself and our reason shines a beacon of enlightenment throughout the KSP Forum that all shall see!

I will play it alone today. Yes, I will. But, tomorrow? Tomorrow will be the day I'll join my mates on an MP session to explode many a kerbal, their happy faces in joy and their clouds of puffs in an unison celebration! KSP players of the world, unite!

[Mr. Peabody]

This thread is a blight on the forum. It annoys me every time I notice that it is here. It annoys me just to know that it exists.

[Mukita12]

This Suggestion for the Game has been quite a while and annoying for this 3 reason

A. Time Warping Issue (I mean LMP and DMP already Fix this but still)

B. The lag it would cause

C.The First Post used to be on 1.3 but since the version Updated you continued with the title too

And that's bl**dy annoying. KSP Will always be Single Player, The feeling just doesn't work if it had Multiplayer

"bUt  MuKIta mUltIPlaYER iS FUn!!" You got a mod about Multiplayer like LMP and DMP. If i want Historical Pack but doesn't have the DLC i will just download the mod. If i want Realistic Plume, i install Real Plume. It's just easy As that.

"BUt mUKitA, i dON't kNOw hOW tO iNstALL mOD." There's a lot of easy tutorial on youtube, Forum, and even the Mod.

Look, yes KSP is a community Game, but What makes the Community Great are the Modder and Moderator (aswell as somestuff Maybe idk) But yeah. KSP is supposed to Be Single Player. A Single Player Game that can be modded for the community. LMP and DMP Developer create this mod for the sake of Multiplayer (i'm just gonna remove the Derp part because it's an Kraken thing to do) "But Mukita, Squad add the Feature like KER, why not same as Multiplayer instead" Yes, Squad add Delta V read out, and it's actually pretty Compact and Easy (same way with KER but KER are less compact) But if Multiplayer in KSP, Imagine How much work Squad would have to Fix the Bug, Server Issue and yadadyayda, Yes you could use Community made Server but what if the Server offline?

KSP is a Single Player Community Game. It means the Community help shape the game. The Developer will only Fix bug, maybe Add part, and maybe some DLC, but it still is a community game. A Community run Game. You still want Have Multiplayer in KSP? Just Install LMP or DMP but if you really want MP in KSP, Go ahead try to Convince the Developer and SQUAD. Anyway that's just my Opinion

[Fraston]

On 3/1/2019 at 8:38 PM, The Dunatian said:

This thread is a blight on the forum. It annoys me every time I notice that it is here. It annoys me just to know that it exists.

The 1st whole suggestions and development page should just be pinned topics. Then we dont have this sin on the front page that it doesn’t deserve.

[Jatwaa]

What I don't understand is, sure it would divert one or two people from the patches, but if you have one or two people that work specifically on the network coding aspect, it would be fine. Outside contractors could handle that IMO. 

Other than that, other than the employee resources, why people would be flat out "absolute no" and aggressively against Multiplayer?

• Not talking about forced online play
• Not talking about MMO servers
• AM talking about a Minecraft-esque set up where a player CAN play solo OR co-op
• AM talking about dedicated servers that would not affect solo play
• AM talking about cloning a solo game and making it accessible 
• AM talking about Admin control, bans, restores, and simple Admin UI for dedicated servers

What is interesting is, this is all possible in DMP and now LMP. I have been in both DMP and LMP and I have seen the both mods grow and do things I wouldn't have though possible. 

• We've landed a craft on a craft in orbit and drove on it
• We've landed a craft on a craft
• We've docked in orbit and on Kerbin
• Made an underwater base
• Raced to Minmus and created a base on the surface
• Escorted a rocket to high atmosphere
• Flown a helicopter nearby a rocket liftoff
• Raced to the poles
• Had ground races around the KSC and poles
• Hover craft races
• Jousted with aircraft
• Flown people to various locations and dropped a kerbal so they could look around
• Stock weapons testing against aircraft and KSC buildings

I understand, yes, many like to play alone. Many hate griefers, many don't want to be forced online. But for EACH issue, there is already a solution. Many of the questions being asked to here already have answers. I've sat and chatted with the Darklight and Dagger and what they have accomplished is nothing short of amazing.

The only real issues I see are the same I see in solo play, high parts and calculation lag. If that can be optimized, then it would be more than feasible. 

If people really want to be separate from it, then it could be a DLC, participate if wanted, don't feel stressed about it. With some of the changes that may be needed, code changes would need to be applied, so as a DLC it would be fine. 

My counter-point is, if there was an update that people wanted, say a new SpaceX module that people were pushing for. The people that enjoy airplanes would want airplane parts, propellers to be specific. Would people say "SpaceX Parts are a sin"? SpaceX is a part of rocket history as much as propellers to aircraft and planned\theoretical explorers. Both are viable. Both would take resources. Both could still exist without affecting the other and ruining a gaming experience for others based on their own ideals. 

To many of us that have tried DMP and LMP and have enjoyed and watched how it has grown, the simple feeling of flying near another player is near exhilaration. You are no longer isolated trying to get X craft to Y location and back for a huzzah and pat on the back. After years of playing KSP, frankly, it needs more to do. Being able to share that experience with another player provides infinite possibilities, whereas solo provides a more limited ROI. 

Simply put, why let ideals of isolated solo play ruin the potential for others to actually enjoy the non-isolation and game together with friends without having to resort to methods of ages ago, save game sharing. KSP can offer much more of an experience than that. All questions have answers if we apply our collective minds and strive for them. 

 

[Tyko]

@Jatwaa help me visualize this...I don't understand how you did a race to minmus with base building in an MP environment. How was time warp handled?

Time warp feels like the one thing that I haven't heard a solution to that doesn't have major compromises. Maybe your explanation of this minmus race will help me understand how time warp can work.

[Chel]

How would multiplayer even be implemented? How would building a craft work? It would be hard for one game to be, lets say, orbiting Duna while the other game is in the SPH building a plane. In my opinion, it just wouldn't work. Oh and also, what about timewarp? You can't expect someone to wait a day to get to the Mun, it just isn't possible. But if you enabled timewarp, it would screw with the other player's designs and things. They're attempting a Laythe landing while the planet is moving at 1000x speed!

[Jatwaa]

33 minutes ago, Tyko said:

@Jatwaa help me visualize this...I don't understand how you did a race to minmus with base building in an MP environment. How was time warp handled?

Time warp feels like the one thing that I haven't heard a solution to that doesn't have major compromises. Maybe your explanation of this minmus race will help me understand how time warp can work.

I will let the pro answer that one, this is how LMP handles Time warp and it works. We sync and resync all the time  https://github.com/LunaMultiplayer/LunaMultiplayer/wiki/Timewarp

We all basically launched and synced. 

21 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

How would multiplayer even be implemented? How would building a craft work? It would be hard for one game to be, lets say, orbiting Duna while the other game is in the SPH building a plane. In my opinion, it just wouldn't work. Oh and also, what about timewarp? You can't expect someone to wait a day to get to the Mun, it just isn't possible. But if you enabled timewarp, it would screw with the other player's designs and things. They're attempting a Laythe landing while the planet is moving at 1000x speed!

Time Warp, refer to the above. Building a craft, build it. Ready to fly and sync up? Sync via the click of a button. That's currently how it works. 

To any with questions about Time Warp, read that link, it is really well done. What you are also seeing in the gif I posted earlier is Interpolation and low syncs working amazingly well so that we could fly low speed with little jitter. Read up on Interpolation here https://github.com/LunaMultiplayer/LunaMultiplayer/wiki/Interpolation

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, Jatwaa said:

I will let the pro answer that one, this is how LMP handles Time warp and it works. We sync and resync all the time  https://github.com/LunaMultiplayer/LunaMultiplayer/wiki/Timewarp

We all basically launched and synced. 

I wasn't looking for an explanation of how a time warp system works. I was asking for a walkthrough of how it affected your game play in a specific instance. It sounded from your earlier post like you were actually trying to win people over and I'm asking you to use this as an example of how it worked for you

how did you all end up in orbit at the same time? how did you race to minmus and all arrive in orbit at the same time? how did you all hit your landing zones at the same time? how did you all go about building your bases simultaneously?