Air Superiority Fighter Competition

[NotAnAimbot]

25 minutes ago, exbyde said:

did you already submit this before, or are you just adding now?

It's a new one, not submitted or run before.

[HeroBrian_333]

@exbyde HOW DO YOU HAVE TIME FOR THIS!!!!!?!!!!

[HeroBrian_333]

Well then...

[exbyde]

3 minutes ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Well then...

nah, this is fun and i have free time. I'm graduating college in a few weeks, so anything that isn't work or studying is good with me.

[Piatzin]

1 hour ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

 HOW DO YOU HAVE TIME FOR THIS!!!!!?!!!!

SORCERY

[drtricky]

@HeroBrian_333 Just a suggestion, but maybe we should cut off submissions here. This is to prevent the list from getting massive, as happened with the old ASC KOTH competition.

[NotAnAimbot]

1 minute ago, drtricky said:

Just a suggestion, but maybe we should cut off submissions here

A better idea would be to put more restrictions. Allowing any mod and turrets is going to make lots of person submit without any work put into building their planes.

Edited December 3, 2017 by NotAnAimbot

[exbyde]

And now, ladies and gents, it is time to see if @Thor Wotansen can handle the #1 And #2 spot in a no-holes-barred match against @53miner53's Fighter 2. All fights are conducted at 15km intercepts.

1v1: Sanngrior, 2-1

Sanngrior- The F2's superior armament and more aggressive weapons management really shine here, putting the Sann into an immediate defensive with a PAK-3 and an AIM-9, but seems to have some issue with stability. After several passes, the Sanngrior's stability and maneuverability won it a gun kill
F2- After a late radar lock at 8km, the F2 put the Sann again on the defensive, before shearing a wing. The F2 then went in for the kill, showing off the immense spread of its 3(?) Vulcan miniguns.
Sanngrior- The Sann would not be dissuaded by the F2's AIM-120 this round, and immediately brought guns to bear on the initial pass. The Sann sheared the F2's wing off on a second head-to-head pass.

3v3: Sanngrior, 2-1
F-2- 3-0 - The F2's were impressive in their drunken pilot routine on the way to the 15km separation, but they corraled the Sanns like sheep. The fight broke down to one line of f2 following sann following f2, and the f2s pulled it out with guns.
Sanngrior- 3-0 - This one dragged out. The first two F2s were shot down quickly, but the third lingered in an intense, conflicting air battle between three planes with sanic the hedgehog speed and one slow maneuverable aircraft. Sanns eventually pulled away for a gun kill at 700m. I recorded this one.
Sanngrior- 3-1 - F-2s got an early kill, but were knocked out by precision gunfire by the Sanns. Noticing a LOT of hesitation on the gunfire, as in both aircraft would be lined up for a shot, and neither would fire. May be time to investigate radar placement?

5v5-
Sanngrior- 5-2- This was a brawl. Kill was being met by kill, first an F2, then a Sann, before finally the remaining Sanns organized and wiped out the remaining pair of f2s.
Sanngrior-  Another brawl, lots of clipped wings. The skies over KSC were littered with flares, missiles and gunfire, but after trading killsThe sanns won this again. Wound up with 1 DQ'ed San and 2 DQ'ed F2s due to clipped wings (no longer combat effective).
Due to the slow speeds of my laptop running this battle, i opted on not running a third, as it would not change the outcome. 

The winner is the Sanngrior drone, winning the 2nd place spot behind the other viking aircraft whose name i cannot pronounce @HeroBrian_333 do we need to run a battle against Thor's aircraft? I believe he said he'd tested them, and judging by the maneuverability of this aircraft, i'd aggree with the Sann taking first place.

 

8 minutes ago, drtricky said:

@HeroBrian_333 Just a suggestion, but maybe we should cut off submissions here. This is to prevent the list from getting massive, as happened with the old ASC KOTH competition.

I'd second a cutoff here until testing and ranking can be completed

8 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

A better idea would be to put more restrictions. Allowing any mod and turrets is going to make lots of person submit without any work put into building their planes.

I think we've already had a discussion on .50 turrets and their effectiveness, which is why Goalkeepers and other CIWS are out. That being said i would see a value in more restrictions, maybe cutting out mods that BDA does not work with (like infernal robotics) or creating a whitelist of mods. Also maybe a part counter under 100 to keep people from making flying fortresses that cannot be feasibly tested. However, as it stands, we currently have around 13 people submitting 20 designs, so there is not a lot of repetition, and i am not seeing a lot of people keeping their designs in play after they have been rendered obsolete by their own testing.

Edited December 3, 2017 by exbyde

[NotAnAimbot]

18 minutes ago, exbyde said:

which is why Goalkeepers and other CIWS are out.

On 11/15/2017 at 11:11 PM, Eidahlil said:

I hope you like monsters. Because this is how you get monsters. I approve.   Though setting a part limit might be good for your sanity's sake.

Here's a small monster of mine for the show (no lasers this time): http://kerbalx.com/juzeris/Monstron.craft

This is what happens when there are no restrictions.

And it's int he roster of craft you're running.

Edited December 3, 2017 by NotAnAimbot

[exbyde]

32 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

This is what happens when there are no restrictions.

This was submitted page 1. Goalkeepers were locked out sometime after,  and this was the only aircraft using a goalkeeper. Further, it has been DQ'ed from combat for being glitchy. The next aircraft like this is the AB-17 Moses which is over 200 parts and will probably be DQ'ed for part count and lag.

Also, i promise you, just because it has a CIWS and all the missiles mounted to it doesn't make it OP AF if it cannot maneuver. i'll be running a test or two on this vs the Sann for fun's sake shortly

Testing between this aircraft and the Sann (the current fastest aircraft and the only one to get within 200m/s of its top speed) showed that the CIWS was not able to keep up with aircraft maneuvers, even when mounted onto such an immaneuverable platform as the Monstron. The monstron had one of the slowest accelerations in a fighter i have seen, as it carried a massive amount of fuel for its engines, further hampering maneuverability.

Tests against my own Berkut A1t, a high-maneuverability aircraft, showed it would kill itself attempting to outmaneuver missiles.

Tests against the Be Gentle showed the Oerlikon cannon couldn't keep up with the aircraft's motion and had a high degree of inaccuracy. The high engine count required to keep the cannon airborne was a good target for AIM-9s, if the aircraft didnt manage to hit itself with its own missiles.

In other words, just because it looks scary doesn't mean it is so OP that it needs to be removed. Weight is a critical part of an air superiority fighter due to maneuverability, and that is not something that can exist when you have so large of a vehicle to carry such an armament.

Edited December 3, 2017 by exbyde

[AeroGav]

4 minutes ago, exbyde said:

Also, i promise you, just because it has a CIWS and all the missiles mounted to it doesn't make it OP AF if it cannot maneuver. i'll be running a test or two on this vs the Sann for fun's sake shortly

I fought my Kryfoon against it,   it acted like a bomber and flew away,  and used the superior speed of its whiplash engines to stay exactly 2km ahead.    The two aircraft engaged at extreme gun range,  my Kryfoon only has twin vulcans  , if it had 3 the outcome might have been different, but it was never quite able to make any parts on the Monstron overheat.   Surprisingly, the Kryfoon was able to withstand the barrage at extreme range.    However, when my Kryfoon ran out of 20mm,  the AI pilot switched to missiles and started flying away from the Monstron, trying to get optimal missile range.   Bad idea to show your six to a faster plane,  the Monstron started overhauling the Kryfoon and when the range got down to 1.5km or so , was able to kill it with the Goalkeepers.

 

I 'm not sure how to configure the AI pilot,  my Kryfoon never shoots off anything like its full complement of missiles, perhaps i should have played with the ripple fire setting.    When it looses a fight, its usually because it's too busy dodging missiles to win the dogfight. 

[NotAnAimbot]

8 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

I 'm not sure how to configure the AI pilot,  my Kryfoon never shoots off anything like its full complement of missiles, perhaps i should have played with the ripple fire setting.    When it looses a fight, its usually because it's too busy dodging missiles to win the dogfight. 

You can play around with missile/target and fire/guard interval. 

[53miner53]

Appearantly I need to figure out AI Pilot. This is going to be interesting...

[Dman979]

Hey guys, just a reminder that the forum guidelines apply to images, too, so please make sure they don't contain profanity. Accordingly, some posts have been removed.

 

Thanks, and keep on keeping on!

Edited December 3, 2017 by Dman979
Changed wording.

[exbyde]

35 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

I fought my Kryfoon against it,   it acted like a bomber and flew away,  and used the superior speed of its whiplash engines to stay exactly 2km ahead.    The two aircraft engaged at extreme gun range,  my Kryfoon only has twin vulcans  , if it had 3 the outcome might have been different, but it was never quite able to make any parts on the Monstron overheat.   Surprisingly, the Kryfoon was able to withstand the barrage at extreme range.    However, when my Kryfoon ran out of 20mm,  the AI pilot switched to missiles and started flying away from the Monstron, trying to get optimal missile range.   Bad idea to show your six to a faster plane,  the Monstron started overhauling the Kryfoon and when the range got down to 1.5km or so , was able to kill it with the Goalkeepers.

 

I 'm not sure how to configure the AI pilot,  my Kryfoon never shoots off anything like its full complement of missiles, perhaps i should have played with the ripple fire setting.    When it looses a fight, its usually because it's too busy dodging missiles to win the dogfight. 

I'd be for banning mk3, FAT-455 and Big-s parts on the grounds of size, or any aircraft over a certain size, i am running into OP issues on drtricky's AB-17 due to general OP-ness with the guns and 360 degree radar, and the fact it can glance off heat doesn't help much

 

 

10 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Hey guys, just a reminder that the forum guidelines apply to images, too, so please make sure they don't contain profanity. Accordingly, some posts have been removed.

 

Thanks, and keep on keeping on!

My bad! Sorry!

23 minutes ago, 53miner53 said:

Appearantly I need to figure out AI Pilot. This is going to be interesting...

Yeah...i've never seen an AI run into the VAB, yet alone two....that was fun.

Edited December 3, 2017 by exbyde

[HeroBrian_333]

Any parts, and Monstron uses millennium cannons, not goalkeepers. There is a difference. However, I will think about putting restrictions on # of turrets and cannons allowed on a craft. On the topic of rankings, Bryntröll (bur-in-trall) can keep 1st.

[exbyde]

1 hour ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Any parts, and Monstron uses millennium cannons, not goalkeepers. There is a difference. However, I will think about putting restrictions on # of turrets and cannons allowed on a craft. On the topic of rankings, Bryntröll (bur-in-trall) can keep 1st.

Sounds good, then i'll probably run a test between the Bryntroll and the Sanngrior when someone challenges second place. For now, Sanngrior should be second and Fighter 2 should be third. I'll probably be running @Earthlinger's Berzerker drones against @53miner53's Fighter 3 for 5th tonight, and another round after.

also, Earthlinger, i still can't access your account, it just asks me to create an account. 53miner, my game crashes as soon as i load the repulsor mod to run Fighter 2 mkII.

Edited December 3, 2017 by exbyde

[53miner53]

2 hours ago, exbyde said:

Yeah...i've never seen an AI run into the VAB, yet alone two....that was fun.

That’s happened before with Fighter 3. Rather amusing, I’d say.

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

53miner, my game crashes as soon as i load the repulsor mod to run Fighter 2 mkII.

I’ll see if I can switch them out for some normal landing gear...I also realized I want to change the armament on it anyway, as I didn’t realize that having a surface to air missle on a plane was so powerful, let alone that guard mode was using it. 

Edit: I do know that it works in 1.3.0, but it might not be playing nice with 1.3.1. I’ll probably have to change it.

Edited December 3, 2017 by 53miner53

[NotAnAimbot]

To make things quicker, can't we do this KoTH style and make every new fighter only challenge the current best? The method we're using right now would take weeks to test every plane.

[exbyde]

25 minutes ago, 53miner53 said:

That’s happened before with Fighter 3. Rather amusing, I’d say.

I’ll see if I can switch them out for some normal landing gear...I also realized I want to change the armament on it anyway, as I didn’t realize that having a surface to air missle on a plane was so powerful, let alone that guard mode was using it. 

Edit: I do know that it works in 1.3.0, but it might not be playing nice with 1.3.1. I’ll probably have to change it.

NVM i figured it out. I was trying to run the 1.3.1 version and was running 1.3.0. Conventional gear may not be the worst thing though, i think i had like six rounds of F2 MK2 vs. the ground, and the ground was winning.
 

 

16 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

To make things quicker, can't we do this KoTH style and make every new fighter only challenge the current best? The method we're using right now would take weeks to test every plane.

Problem is, you'd wind up with the best plane, followed by a list of the last four it fought. Current testing runs from 5th best up, if you can't beat 5th best, you're not on the list, go for a honorable mention.

Edited December 3, 2017 by exbyde

[Dimas152]

uhhh another one submission? 
 

Spoiler

has 4 AMRAAMs and 4 Sidewinders, and a single hidden vulcan
craft sauce : https://kerbalx.com/dimas_1502/KAI--PTDI-KF-XIF-X

tq

[HeroBrian_333]

no further submissions until further notice. Please excuse the delay while we update the rankings.

[exbyde]

@53miner53 i'm going to hold off on testing the Fighter 2 MK 2 officially for a bit. I have run tests on it, and did note on 3v3 flights the new model won 3 fights with zero friendly casualties, though i also did notice a tendancy for flatspins.  I'd love to get some new names up on the board, and since i don't have a functioning file for @Earthlinger's drones yet...
*cues up boxing announcer voice*

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

On the numbers on Runway 9 of the KSC runway we have the Afterburning Al Qaeda, the Jet Fuel Jihad, The 911th Fighter Wing, Fighter 3, defending the #5 spot on the list. And on the 27 side, we have our new heavyweight competitor, weighing in at just under 20 tons, the Kryfoon from @AeroGav

(Kryfoon on the left, Fighter 3 (F3) Right)
1v1: Fighter 3, 3-0

Fighter 3: The three-engine Kryfoon showed its weight as it lumbered in the air a few seconds after the twin-engine Fighter 3, but demonstrated maneuverability by getting off the first shot. Unfortunately, in trying to miss the F3's missile, it impacted the ground.
Fighter 3: The Kryfoon stayed airborne after dodging the first missile, but the ECM and Chaff couldn't save it from a second missile hit at over 4km.
Fighter 3: Chased into the ground by an AIM-120. The Kryfoon shows a severe deficiency in evading missiles.

3v3: Fighter 3, 3-0

Fighter 3: 3-2 - The initial pass claimed a Kryfoon from a missile hit, a victim of its large radar signature, but was quickly met with Kryfoon kill, gunning down a F3. The Kryfoon seems to have the same gun preference as the Be Gentle, painting targets with lead from long distances. The final kill was a lucky shot from an F3, knocking the nose and canard off the Kryfoon, letting the rest of the aircraft plummet to earth with seemingly no elevator control.
Fighter 3: 3-1 - The Kryfoon needs to watch Dodgeball. Two aircraft were taken out nearly simultaneously by AIM-120s just above gun range. The final Kryfoon squeezed out a gun kill before being put down by three separate strafing runs by F3s before hitting the ground
Fighter 3: 3-0 -  In a vicious final round, the Kryfoons were wiped out in under 2 minutes without casualty by the F3s. The first was put down by an AIM-120 on the initial pass, a second and then the last Kryfoon was put down with a stream of Vulcan fire. This fight was recorded.

5v5: Fighter 3, 2-0

Fighter 3: 5-3.5 - After a pair of missile kills, the remaining Kryfoons showed off their gunslinging skills, each knocking down an F3 before succuming to the supermaneuverable fighter's guns. A final .5 was added after it was found that a Fighter 3 had been damaged nearly to the point of being combat ineffective, losing an engine,  half of the trailing edge of its left wing, and the leading edge of its right wing.
Fighter 3: 5-4: I found no more fitting way to end the Kryfoon's fight than this battle. The final fight began as the Kryfoons broke formation, a pair diving into the hornets nest of all five F3s. Guns and missiles swept across the sky as the Kryfoon scored a gun kill, then an F3, then a Kryfoon had its engines shot out before another retaliated. A moment later, an F3 and Kryfoon collided mid-air, bringing the fight down to a 2v2 as the battle raged. A Kryfoon was hit by a missile soon after, leaving but a single Kryfoon piloted by Jeb himself with an F3 hot on its tail. Pulling a sharp turn, it managed to get on the F3's tail and scour the aircraft with its guns, but the final kill was taken by the last F3 with a strafing run, leaving the last Kryfoon to fall to the ground.

Overall, this was a massive surprise to me, given the F3's pilot problems. The  Kryfoon did poorly in single aircraft duels, but given a squadron, it nearly matched up with the F3, trading kills but always coming up a little short. Apparently the F3 is good for two things, knocking down buildings and heavy fighters. No changes in the roster.

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by exbyde

[53miner53]

Interesting...I may have to try to improve Fighter 3 for more success. Also, I haven’t had Fighter 2 Mk2 flat spin in my testing, do you have a video of the conditions that it spun in?

[exbyde]

@dundun93 I am disqualifying your aircraft due to it not being a fighter. In 3 fights with the F3, 1v1, the aircraft ran over 10km away from the opposing aircraft. In one case it ran at full afterburners in a straight line until it ran out of fuel. In a second case, after making a single strafing pass from 2km, the aircraft streaked up to 15km altitude and stayed there until the f3 caught up and gunned it down. While your strategy of a high-speed aircraft with guns has worked in the past, specifically with the Sanngrior, successful aircraft also added an element of extreme maneuverability and used its speed to close the radar gap before dogfighting. Your aircraft does not show this capability, and with the control surfaces you have selected, the ones with the smallest throws in the game, it is unlikely this design has such capacity. If you feel like re-submitting your design, i'd be happy to test it again, but for now, your aircraft does not perform as a fighter.

 

49 minutes ago, 53miner53 said:

Interesting...I may have to try to improve Fighter 3 for more success. Also, I haven’t had Fighter 2 Mk2 flat spin in my testing, do you have a video of the conditions that it spun in?

I don't have video, i was just seeing it after the initial pass in dogfighting. As i said, the mk2s won all the fights with no damage, but i was seeing that flat spin on occasion. I'll mention the F3 seems very capable but the crew seems to be a letdown. For some reason in the last two dogfights i've attempted with the X-02, the aircraft has run itself into the ground shortly after taking off.

Edited December 4, 2017 by exbyde