totm sep 2021 [1.12] Stockalike Station Parts Redux (August 14, 2024)

[Nertea]

Sorry, this question comes up a bit - I don't want to as the stock lab is pretty crazy in terms of balance. I've stated before that the smallest size I will consider is 1.875m.

[Machinique]

On the topic of small labs, Bluedog Design Bureau has a 1.25 lab (Mercury - Agena lab) and 1.5/1.875 labs (M.O.L. and Gemini Modular station parts) if one interested in those profiles.

[invultri]

Small remark for people that use KIS and want to attach parts from this mod, if you printed them with OSE workshop and get them from storage, drop them on the floor first otherwise it will atom smash the vehicle (and surroundings) it is attached to.

[darkplasmaray]

https://imgur.com/a/tesC2er

Heeeelp! The mod comes up with this massive error list and I can't get rid of it D:

[Starseeker]

On 9/26/2020 at 10:54 AM, darkplasmaray said:

https://imgur.com/a/tesC2er

Heeeelp! The mod comes up with this massive error list and I can't get rid of it D:

Do you have "StationPartsExpansionRedux" and "StationPartsExpansionMetal" as folders under your GameData folder, and do you have B9PartSwitch installed? It's working fine for me, so it might be an installation error.

[Maple Kerman]

Man, this mod is phenomenal. Every one of my stations relies on these parts. All of the parts just look so detailed and crisp, it makes me happy.

Great job. 

[darthgently]

Quick question: I'm trying to decide what node to spend some science points on.  Do the Extensible Crew Tubes allow resource transfer?  Thanks!

[DeadJohn]

15 hours ago, darthgently said:

Quick question: I'm trying to decide what node to spend some science points on.  Do the Extensible Crew Tubes allow resource transfer?  Thanks!

The extensible tubes allow resource transfer. They work similar to the advanced grabber unit "klaw".

[chd]

It looks like the inflatable habitation modules are not recognized by missions that want to you build something "supporting n Kerbals" -- is this a known issue? Sorry if this has been asked before; I did skim through the thread first and didn't see it.

(And yes, I did make sure it was actually inflated :-) )

Thanks!

EDIT: nevermind -- restarting the game seems to have fixed it.

Edited October 20, 2020 by chd

[bdole92]

Hi, i've run into an incompatibility between this mod and Kerbal Space Transport System. It seems that KSTS can't 'see' the extra seats on my low kerbin orbit station that are provided by the inflating parts, specifically the PPD-E-1 dirigible hab module. I de-inflated and re-inflated the module on the off chance it would fix it, but i still can't deploy additional kerbals to the station with the transport mission from the other mod (which lets you 'simulate' flights you've done before, e.g crew transfers . I've included here the log file for my game and the craft file for the station, and a list of all the mods that are active on the save

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lej4f7bfqa8l1rt/Ksp Training Camp.craft?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wu80jjqd2nnaeig/Player.log?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jinaeqsrmox3ppo/ksmpodlist22.txt?dl=0

Edited October 21, 2020 by bdole92
Clarification

[DeadJohn]

@Nertea Someone read the changelog before asking a question

I'm using the BZ-1 and BZ-2 adjustable base frames for the 1st time in a while. It looked like the legs wouldn't extend, then I noticed they are moving but very slowly.  SSPXr 1.3.6 says: "Added a scaling factor to auto-leveling base frames which reduces their extension speed in proportion with the Celestial Body's gravity". That explains it; my base is in Minmus' low gravity. The slower speeds keeps bases from lifting off, but it seems excessively slow on Minmus.

I didn't find a global cfg that controls the new gravity scaling factors. Is there anything I missed?

If not, should I try changing ExtensionRate = 1.0 for each leg in each part? What would you guess to be the upper limit before I start summoning Kraken? I'll start testing from there and assume all risks of ruined vessels.

Thanks.

 

[darthgently]

On 10/21/2020 at 10:56 PM, DeadJohn said:

@Nertea Someone read the changelog before asking a question

I'm using the BZ-1 and BZ-2 adjustable base frames for the 1st time in a while. It looked like the legs wouldn't extend, then I noticed they are moving but very slowly.  SSPXr 1.3.6 says: "Added a scaling factor to auto-leveling base frames which reduces their extension speed in proportion with the Celestial Body's gravity". That explains it; my base is in Minmus' low gravity. The slower speeds keeps bases from lifting off, but it seems excessively slow on Minmus.

I didn't find a global cfg that controls the new gravity scaling factors. Is there anything I missed?

If not, should I try changing ExtensionRate = 1.0 for each leg in each part? What would you guess to be the upper limit before I start summoning Kraken? I'll start testing from there and assume all risks of ruined vessels.

Thanks.

 

The problem with coming up with a default ExtensionRate is that "too fast" or "too slow" depends on how massive the object that the legs are attached to is and how massive the body of the surface is and that is unknown information for the default parts file.  My gut tells me is that you want to keep the rate lower than escape velocity, ha ha, so that puts one limit on your tuning.  But keeping it below the equivalent to thrust-to-weight ratio of 1 would seem to be a good start.  The bottom line is that depends on the mass of the craft you put them on and the mass of the body you are deploying them on. 

You can also just use RCS to push the craft down while they deploy if they are too fast, but this can mess with accuracy of the autodeploy iirc if it ends up bouncing. 

Also, be aware that if you use tweakscale on the legs, then autodeploy is not a viable option.  Autodeploy uses the unscaled size to determine autodeploy leg length based on slope and direction of the location.  Scaling the part does not properly scale this calculation.  You can always dive into kOS and code your own autodeploy algorithm, or to merely calculate and autoset the ExtensionRate if it is accessible in the PAW and to kOS (idk about that) 

Edited October 24, 2020 by darthgently

[Nertea]

14 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

@Nertea Someone read the changelog before asking a question

I'm using the BZ-1 and BZ-2 adjustable base frames for the 1st time in a while. It looked like the legs wouldn't extend, then I noticed they are moving but very slowly.  SSPXr 1.3.6 says: "Added a scaling factor to auto-leveling base frames which reduces their extension speed in proportion with the Celestial Body's gravity". That explains it; my base is in Minmus' low gravity. The slower speeds keeps bases from lifting off, but it seems excessively slow on Minmus.

I didn't find a global cfg that controls the new gravity scaling factors. Is there anything I missed?

If not, should I try changing ExtensionRate = 1.0 for each leg in each part? What would you guess to be the upper limit before I start summoning Kraken? I'll start testing from there and assume all risks of ruined vessels.

Thanks.

 

This is not configurable at the moment, if you need it to be it can be. It is basically speed factor = g(local)/g(kerbin).

19 hours ago, bdole92 said:

Hi, i've run into an incompatibility between this mod and Kerbal Space Transport System. It seems that KSTS can't 'see' the extra seats on my low kerbin orbit station that are provided by the inflating parts, specifically the PPD-E-1 dirigible hab module. I de-inflated and re-inflated the module on the off chance it would fix it, but i still can't deploy additional kerbals to the station with the transport mission from the other mod (which lets you 'simulate' flights you've done before, e.g crew transfers . I've included here the log file for my game and the craft file for the station, and a list of all the mods that are active on the save

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lej4f7bfqa8l1rt/Ksp Training Camp.craft?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wu80jjqd2nnaeig/Player.log?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jinaeqsrmox3ppo/ksmpodlist22.txt?dl=0

You'll have to ask the dev of that mod to talk to me to see what either of us need to do to support each others' mod. i don't really have time right now to dig into their project and submit code fixing this (the code probably has to go in KSTS). 

[bdole92]

5 hours ago, Nertea said:

This is not configurable at the moment, if you need it to be it can be. It is basically speed factor = g(local)/g(kerbin).

You'll have to ask the dev of that mod to talk to me to see what either of us need to do to support each others' mod. i don't really have time right now to dig into their project and submit code fixing this (the code probably has to go in KSTS). 

Thanks, i'll bug the mod author!

Edited October 22, 2020 by bdole92
Clarification

[TBenz]

On 10/21/2020 at 3:16 PM, bdole92 said:

Hi, i've run into an incompatibility between this mod and Kerbal Space Transport System. It seems that KSTS can't 'see' the extra seats on my low kerbin orbit station that are provided by the inflating parts, specifically the PPD-E-1 dirigible hab module. I de-inflated and re-inflated the module on the off chance it would fix it, but i still can't deploy additional kerbals to the station with the transport mission from the other mod (which lets you 'simulate' flights you've done before, e.g crew transfers . I've included here the log file for my game and the craft file for the station, and a list of all the mods that are active on the save

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lej4f7bfqa8l1rt/Ksp Training Camp.craft?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wu80jjqd2nnaeig/Player.log?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jinaeqsrmox3ppo/ksmpodlist22.txt?dl=0

KSTS looks at part crew capacity. The inflatable parts in SSPX don't have a crew capacity, probably to prevent putting kerbals into deflated parts on launch. A quick and dirty fix is to patch all the  inflatable parts to have the same crew capacity as their inflated crew capacity. For a proper fix, KSTS would probably need to specially check for inflated capacity from the SSPXR parts.

[eatU4myT]

I posted in the TAC-LS thread, but haven't got any response, so wondered if anyone here could help. The 2.5 and 3.75m greenhouse parts from SSPX say that their inputs include "Minerals: 0.0 per day". They also have storage for Minerals. Are they supposed to use minerals? Have I got some conflicting mods going on?

Thanks

[TBenz]

23 hours ago, eatU4myT said:

I posted in the TAC-LS thread, but haven't got any response, so wondered if anyone here could help. The 2.5 and 3.75m greenhouse parts from SSPX say that their inputs include "Minerals: 0.0 per day". They also have storage for Minerals. Are they supposed to use minerals? Have I got some conflicting mods going on?

Thanks

If I read the config correctly, the 2.5 greenhouse uses 0.0003 minerals a day. It looks like that is being rounded to "0.0 per day" on the display, but it should still very slowly consume minerals when in use. The same is probably happening with the 3.75 greenhouse.

[eatU4myT]

1 hour ago, TBenz said:

0.0003 minerals a day.

That's helpful, thanks. Does sort of beg the question though, why use a resource where supply is essentially infinite? The greenhouse stores 120 minerals, so at that rate it is good for... ~1100 years?!

If it was meant to be 0.0003 per second, that would be about 20 days supply - is that more likely?

@JadeOfMaar, is this a config you wrote? Are you able to shed any light?

Edited October 30, 2020 by eatU4myT

[JadeOfMaar]

@eatU4myT Converter ratios are given in units per second so the 20 days supply theory is proper.  When you give increasingly precise numbers, the throughput displays will go from "X units per second" to "...per minute -> per hour -> per day." The displays don't go higher than that because weeks and months aren't a thing in stock, and no one is expecting a converter to run slow enough to calculate "units per month/year."

"0.0 per day" is the same as when Nertea's reactors say they'll last "A very long time!"

Minerals in TAC LS is semi-infinite because along with the Minerals supply, you sometimes get a converter to dehydrate food and recover a powdery substance that's all nutrition and probably no flavor, and you can use it to feed the plants in the greenhouse to reproduce tasty food.

2 hours ago, eatU4myT said:

why use a resource where supply is essentially infinite?

I didn't come up with this. That's how it is in the prior existing mods that add this dynamic. When you consider time scales in RSS (where TAC is the LS of choice) this dynamic doesn't seem so OP anymore.

[TBenz]

23 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@eatU4myT Converter ratios are given in units per second so the 20 days supply theory is proper.

The raw ratio in the config is 0.0000000035237055479406 units a second. I had already converted by a factor of 86,400 (the number of seconds in a day) to reach 0.00030444815934206784 units a day. 0.0003 units a second results in 25.92 units a day, which is a pretty far cry from 0.0 units a day...

Edited October 30, 2020 by TBenz

[JadeOfMaar]

@TBenz I don't remember the Minerals numbers being -that- low. That.......is objectively horribly unbalanced.

[Daniel Prates]

Hi there @Nertea! Great fan of your mod. 

Tell me something. Have you taken attention to the science research rate and EC consumption of your large lab? It has more science storage capacity (1500, as opposed to the 750 capacity of the stock lab) but it seems to process science much slower, and consuming little EC. Is this intentional? 

EDIT/PS: please @Nertea forget I even asked this. I forgot that the rate of research is higher when you have more data stored, so it only seemed your lab had low research ratio because I tested it with a mere crew report from LKO. In any case the numbers clearly show your lab converts quicker than the stock lab, because of the extra third scientist. 

Still, if you are up to it, consider boosting the research rate of your lab, to suggest that it is more advanced than the stock counterpart somewhat, at the price of it consuming more EC. Just a thought. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Daniel Prates

[eatU4myT]

@JadeOfMaar@TBenzThanks for taking the time to look at this.  I guess I can now tweak the Minerals input resource ratio figure to something that works for me, which is great.  Could I ask one more thing - the ratio given is 0.0000000035237055479406 which you mentioned is per second.  So, working up that is:

0.000000211422332876436 per minute

0.00001268533997258616 per hour

and then...

0.00007611203983551696 per (Kerbin) day

or

0.00030444815934206784 per (Earth) day

Which is the one that is reported in game?

Thanks

 

 

[TBenz]

20 hours ago, eatU4myT said:

@JadeOfMaar@TBenzThanks for taking the time to look at this.  I guess I can now tweak the Minerals input resource ratio figure to something that works for me, which is great.  Could I ask one more thing - the ratio given is 0.0000000035237055479406 which you mentioned is per second.  So, working up that is:

0.000000211422332876436 per minute

0.00001268533997258616 per hour

and then...

0.00007611203983551696 per (Kerbin) day

or

0.00030444815934206784 per (Earth) day

Which is the one that is reported in game?

Thanks

 

 

I would assume it reports in homeworld days, so if you are playing with a stock system that should be the 0.00007611... per day. To be honest, I completely forgot Kerbin has a different day/night cycle.

[Wyzard]

A little show & tell: here's my 65-kerbal space hotel for the Tourism Plus contract pack, built mostly from SSPXR and Near Future parts.  (Plus a few stock parts, and two Universal Storage octo-cores holding batteries and life-support recyclers.)

The big 3.75m storage containers hold Supplies (the USI life-support resource), and the smaller containers attached to the greenhouses hold Fertilizer (used by greenhouses to make more Supplies).  Greenhouses and recyclers draw a lot of power, so there's a nuclear reactor at the very bottom.

This was built in orbit by launching segments from Kerbin and connecting them together using USI Konstruction ports.