Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[Just Jim]

32 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

*Implausibly good at everything s/he attempts with no prior training or experience
*Better at the tasks of other protagonists that are their specialty
*No noticeable imperfections or weaknesses
*Universally liked and admired by all other characters, including occasionally their enemies.
*Never seen struggling; everything comes easily

Sounds like my Emiko... lmao... 

(I'm so sorry... couldn't help myself... I'll see myself out...)

Edited January 5, 2018 by Just Jim

[DAL59]

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, DAL59 said:

 

Encore

[DAL59]

9 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Encore

 

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

The Porgs were the only good charachter in the Last Jedi. And Chewie

[DAL59]

 

They watched it on the ISS!

[GoSlash27]

5 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

But actually, I just wanted to ask if the movie is good, because most people seem to either love it or hate it. I'm pretty sure the average IQ on these forums is higher than in the rest of the internet, and I have yet to meet one of you who isn't a sensible person, so........story-wise, is it good...?

Should I watch it in the cinema?

Earthlinger,

 Ask a thousand different people, and you'll get two different answers. The viewers are split 50/50 on it.

Is it objectively a "good" movie, story- wise? No. *Emphatically* no. The majority of viewers will agree on that point. Is it an "enjoyable" movie? Maybe, maybe not. Here's where the viewers are split. It really depends on your ability to enjoy the fun parts and overlook the bad parts. I have a low tolerance for wading through bad storytelling to get to the good parts, and others don't. It's entirely subjective.

So maybe you'll enjoy it, maybe you won't. Many viewers did, many didn't.

Best,
-Slashy

[GDJ]

6 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

Hello all

I have yet to watch the movie

But actually, I just wanted to ask if the movie is good, because most people seem to either love it or hate it. I'm pretty sure the average IQ on these forums is higher than in the rest of the internet, and I have yet to meet one of you who isn't a sensible person, so........story-wise, is it good...?

Should I watch it in the cinema?

You could do far worse with your money.

Personally I liked it, and yeah you might as well do the 3D if you can. 

[PakledHostage]

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

Is it objectively a "good" movie, story- wise? No. *Emphatically* no. The majority of viewers will agree on that point. 

Objectively, people who have taken the time to vote on the movie on Rotten Tomatoes are split 50/50 on whether the movie sucked or not, but we've already discussed upthread (and you even agreed) that those votes are hardly unbiased. 

My own experience in talking to friends, co-workers and acquaintances about the movie is that people's reviews are more closely aligned with  the professional critics, of whom 90 percent liked it.

Sure there are people (including several who passionately express their opinions here on this thread) who hated the movie for various reasons, but I am certain that time will bear out that those viewers are in the minority. TLJ wasn't high art but it was entertaining spectacle in the moment, and that's good enough for the majority of people.

[StrandedonEarth]

7 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

Should I watch it in the cinema?

Trust your feelings. Let go (of your money).

I'd say the spectacle was worth it. I'm there for the eye-candy,  not a story  that's been pulled in several directions by different writers. While I'm certainly a Star Wars fan,  if you think about the story in Ep7-8 too much (like at all) it starts to smell like a wet wookie

4 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Encore

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

29 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Trust your feelings. Let go (of your money).

I'd say the spectacle was worth it. I'm there for the eye-candy,  not a story  that's been pulled in several directions by different writers. While I'm certainly a Star Wars fan,  if you think about the story in Ep7-8 too much (like at all) it starts to smell like a wet wookie

 

If a I could start a go fund me to redo Ep 7 & 8 by the fans I would.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

6 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

*Implausibly good at everything s/he attempts with no prior training or experience
*Better at the tasks of other protagonists that are their specialty
*No noticeable imperfections or weaknesses
*Universally liked and admired by all other characters, including occasionally their enemies.
*Never seen struggling; everything comes easily

Harry Potter?

Snoke was trolling Rey really lovely when her sword performed a beautiful elliptical orbit turn and smacked her upside the head. _{Rewinded three times.}

Rey's shocked face was really nice too, when Kylo switched loyalties and unsnoked the universe. _{Rewinded four times.}

[KSK]

8 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

KSK,

 I really have no way of convincing you that your personal view of Rey is "wrong", and I won't bother trying

 I would, however, like to point out that a "Mary Sue" character is about a lot more than just being overpowered. Here's a common list of Mary Sue traits:

*Implausibly good at everything s/he attempts with no prior training or experience
*Better at the tasks of other protagonists that are their specialty
*No noticeable imperfections or weaknesses
*Universally liked and admired by all other characters, including occasionally their enemies.
*Never seen struggling; everything comes easily
 

 I would argue that Rey is a textbook example of this in all respects. Better at flying the Millenium Falcon than Han Solo (with zero previous flight experience) and also better at fixing it than Chewbacca. Better marksman than everybody else on a battlefield with no experience. Able to defeat a room full of Imperial Guards with no training. Has only just met Chewbacca, but is interpreting for Luke Skywalker, who has known Chewie for decades. Everybody knows Rey. Everybody loves Rey at first sight. Even Snoke loves Rey. Rey never gets into any serious trouble where she needs help. She's more likely to end up rescuing whoever is sent to rescue her. And on, and, on, and on....

 So yeah... if it's not enough of a problem to distract *you*, then for *you* she doesn't qualify as a "Mary Sue". But I'm sure you can see how, objectively, others might.

 Best,
-Slashy

 

Oh sure, I can see that. I think the key word on your bullet point list is 'implausible' and I've tried to explain why I think a lot of Rey's abilities aren't actually implausible. Hopefully some of those explanations have been interesting if not persuasive.  But yeah - a lot of my explanations were a matter of interpretation and interpretations (not to mention opinions) of a film are always going to differ. 

And as mentioned, I can totally see how she might slip over into becoming a Mary Sue character, depending on her story arc in the next film. I can imagine any number of really interesting ways they could take her story - most of which do include internal struggles or exposure of flaws that then have to be overcome. All of the major Force users have had a major weakness so far, whether that be insecurity (Luke), exploitable fear for loved ones (Anakin), lapses in judgement and inability to deal with things outside of their limited experience (Obi-Wan) or Dark characters placing too much trust in their equally Dark protégées (Snoke, Sidious). I'm curious to see whether Rey will have one too.

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

You can't become a Mary Sue. You are or are not

[GoSlash27]

5 hours ago, PakledHostage said:

TLJ wasn't high art but it was entertaining spectacle in the moment, and that's good enough for the majority of people.

PakledHostage,

 This is why I was so careful to differentiate between "story" and "enjoyable". As SoE said, " if you think about the story in Ep7-8 too much (like at all) it starts to smell like a wet wookie".
 But that doesn't mean you can't have a good time watching it.
 

 Also, I should point out that the reviews on RT have gone down since the last time I mentioned them. Now they're 90/50.

Best,
-Slashy

 

[DDE]

2 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

You can't become a Mary Sue. You are or are not

On the contrary, especially if the author changes in both senses of the word. A lot of fanfic Sues are a stand-up guyized version of an original character.

5 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

12 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

*Never seen struggling; everything comes easily

Harry Potter?

Nope. Harry had quite a few legs up, but was by no means perfect.

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

 

That's how a story should end

[DDE]

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

That's how a story should end

*gasp*

You liked the prequels!

That makes two of you.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, DDE said:

*gasp*

You liked the prequels!

That makes two of you.

I thought Phantom Menace did its job... I guess. Attack of the Clone was a disgrace. I loved Revenge of the Sith.

[DDE]

2 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I thought Phantom Menace did its job... I guess. Attack of the Clone was a disgrace. I loved Revenge of the Sith.

It's all a plot to sell popcorn for me, with more than a slight tinge of contemporary politics.

Or perhaps I'm reading way, way too very much into everything - [snip]

Edited January 7, 2018 by Snark
Political content redacted by moderator

[Cheif Operations Director]

@DDE

@DAL59

Did either of you like my Alternative idea for Rey's charachter Development.

[Snark]

Several posts here digressed into a discussion of real-world politics and have been removed.

Forum guideline 2.2.b, folks.  No politics.  Please be careful?  Thanks.

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Snark said:

Several posts here digressed into a discussion of real-world politics and have been removed.

Forum guideline 2.2.b, folks.  No politics.  Please be careful?  Thanks.

Which ones? I'm just curious, none of mine right?

[Snark]

1 minute ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Which ones? I'm just curious, none of mine right?

Sorry, we don't publicly discuss moderator action.  "Please stay away from discussing real-world politics" is enough. 

[Cheif Operations Director]

Just now, Snark said:

Sorry, we don't publicly discuss moderator action.  "Please stay away from discussing real-world politics" is enough. 

Ok?