The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge Continued

[jost]

2 minutes ago, JacobJHC said:

No refueling mission allowed, that is correct.

Makes sense somehow, since we have ISRU now

[Ksp Slingshooter]

3 hours ago, JacobJHC said:

@Ksp Slingshooter  Slingshooter could you post a screenshot of your craft with the kerbals on it?

This is the Mothership docked to all the landers that managed to have enough delta-V to rendezvous with it.
These picture were taken after all landings and takeoffs from all Moons.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Ksp Slingshooter

[Ksp Slingshooter]

Here's my entry for (the 3rd Level of) the Jool-5 Challenge:

https://imgur.com/gallery/aFj5zyU

Mission Details:

1. This mission doesn't use any ISRU's
2. The mission complies with all the rules
3. KSP version: 1.9.1
4. Mods used: Throttle control avionics, Kerbal Engineer Redux
5. Kerbals on mission: 5
6. Launches needed to start the mission from Kerbin: 5
7. Total the mission cost: 462479 funds (404469 interplanetary + 58010 Jool-5 Rescuer)
8. No refuel mission was needed to provide extra fuel+oxidizer since all Kerbin launches; however refer to bulletpoint 9.
9. I used some of the Bop and Pol Lander's Liquid fuel to refuel the Mothership, but I guess it wasn't needed (the mission must be doable without this)
10. No extra stuff was carried in the mission
11. Delta-V information is on the imgur album

It wasn't without problems though.
It all went smoothly except for the: 

• aerobraking on Laythe from a high relative velocity, which meant that I didn't manage to avoid exploding 2 non-essencial pieces (1 landing leg and 1 RCS thruster block) in order to aerocapture in Laythe's orbit
• takeoff from Laythe with a severely unbalanced, unstable lander that had a very high tendency to flip (this meant I had install TCA for control and I had to takeoff extremely slowly wasting precious delta-V)
• landing on Tylo (took me several attempts, since I've never landed in such high-G moon, especially with a low TWR lander) (I had to use some fuel from the ascent stage)
• rescuing the Kerbals from an hyperbolic trajectory (I built a rescuer with just enough delta-V to rendezvous with the Mothership, which meant that I could only rendezvous from a point at less than 3 minutes from reentry to try and rescue 5 Kerbals)

Edited March 31, 2020 by Ksp Slingshooter

[Carbonjvd]

My submission for Level 2? of the Challenge, the IPV Excelsior an all-in-one SSTO and IPV hybrid vessel.

Jool-5 Challenge with IPV Excelsior

Back after a few years off of Kerbal for this challenge

The mission was flown and designed in v1.9.1, all stock with no mods.

Crew: 3 (Room for 5)

Number of Launches: 1

Number of Stages: 1

Launch Cost: $332,122

Launch Mass: 380.78 tons (Partially fueled)

Max Mass: 415.78 tons (Fully fueled)

Engines: 5 Vectors for high impulse and 4 Nukes for high endurance

ISRU: 4 Large Drills and 1 Refinery for refueling at every landing

 

The IPV Excelsior started out as an overengineered Mining Tanker hybrid for the Jool system, but performed way better than anticipated so I figured why not. Kitted it out with the additional components for Kerbals to access the surface, along with more heat resistant components to survive atmospheric captures.

Mission Profile:

• Kerbin to Minmus (Refuel)
• Minmus to Jool
• Jool to Bop (EVA and Refuel)
• Bop to Pol (EVA and Refuel)
• Pol to Tylo (EVA and Refuel)
• Tylo to Bop (Refuel)
• Bop to Vall (EVA and Refuel)
• Vall to Bop (Refuel)
• Bop to Laythe (EVA and Refuel)
• Laythe to Bop (Refuel)
• Bop to Minmus (Refuel)
• Minmus to Kerbin (Completed)

Edited April 1, 2020 by Carbonjvd

[SiriusRocketry]

@JacobJHC I regret to inform you that my Jool 5 has failed.

The Deep Space Transfer Vehicle was too low on dV, and one of the fuel lines on the Tylo lander straight up vanished, for no discernible reason, during Tylo descent. Valentina had to manually abort the Tylo landing during descent, and redocked with the mothership. I transferred all the fuel out of the Laythe and Tylo landers (except for the Tylo lander's upperstage, which will now be repurposed as a Vall/Bop/Pol lander) and abandoned the landers in Tylo orbit. Will continue recording my videos as I plot a restricted mission to Vall, Bop and Pol, then back to Kerbin, where the Space Program is likely to be shuttered thanks to the non-completion of the Jool-5 mission, or at least kept barely afloat thanks to the scant funding from landings on the other moons, resulting in the closure of all missions outside Kerbin SOI for a while.

Of course this has all been recorded, and video will be up soon.

 

[jost]

3 hours ago, SiriusRocketry said:

@JacobJHC I regret to inform you that my Jool 5 has failed.

The Deep Space Transfer Vehicle was too low on dV, and one of the fuel lines on the Tylo lander straight up vanished, for no discernible reason, during Tylo descent. Valentina had to manually abort the Tylo landing during descent, and redocked with the mothership. I transferred all the fuel out of the Laythe and Tylo landers (except for the Tylo lander's upperstage, which will now be repurposed as a Vall/Bop/Pol lander) and abandoned the landers in Tylo orbit. Will continue recording my videos as I plot a restricted mission to Vall, Bop and Pol, then back to Kerbin, where the Space Program is likely to be shuttered thanks to the non-completion of the Jool-5 mission, or at least kept barely afloat thanks to the scant funding from landings on the other moons, resulting in the closure of all missions outside Kerbin SOI for a while.

Of course this has all been recorded, and video will be up soon.

 

Nah,  this was just a simulation in the engineering tool of Wernher and Bill. Sure you can improve the landers and repeat since you already did most of the mission then.

[SiriusRocketry]

32 minutes ago, jost said:

Nah,  this was just a simulation in the engineering tool of Wernher and Bill. Sure you can improve the landers and repeat since you already did most of the mission then.

The landers weren't really the issue: it was the interplanetary vehicle: my fuel ran out too quickly, so I had to cut the 40t of landers loose to continue the mission.

 

[jost]

3 minutes ago, SiriusRocketry said:

The landers weren't really the issue: it was the interplanetary vehicle: my fuel ran out too quickly, so I had to cut the 40t of landers loose to continue the mission.

 

Well this is a flaw, which can easily fixed. Bring more fuel next time or (the way I would choose) bring a miner to use on Bop, and Pol for refuelling.

[Carbonjvd]

If you set again ISRU, using drop tanks with extra fuel can really extend your delta v budget, along with dropping unneeded landers after they’ve been used. Just my 2 cents :)

[SiriusRocketry]

I thought no refuelling was allowed? I've been doing the entire thing using only fuel in the initial Kerbin launch. 

[Carbonjvd]

50 minutes ago, SiriusRocketry said:

I thought no refuelling was allowed? I've been doing the entire thing using only fuel in the initial Kerbin launch. 

Launching a separate mission with fuel to aid the challenge ship when its left low Kerbin orbit isn’t allowed, but drop tanks are. Drop tanks are pretty much expendable tanks that you jettison after they’re empty to save weight, kind of like staging a launch vehicle but in space. ISRU is allowed, but will put an asterisk so to speak on the mission.

This to the best of my knowledge, but its @JacobJHC who is the arbitor of it. Best of luck!

Edited April 1, 2020 by Carbonjvd
Specification

[theJesuit]

I'm thinking of attempting/ and then submitting a Jool-5, probably ISRU from my current career save in 1.8.1 but have a few questions:

1. This doesn't have to be the first trip to Jool in a save or does it?
2. Is kOS allowed? - I use this only for initial launches from Kerbin.
3. Is NodeSplitter allowed?
4. Is ReStockPlus allowed, or should I make the Jool-5 craft a 'stock only'?  I'm only going to use the 'Stock engines'
5. Would the Simplex mods be allowed?

• It's a career with Simplex TechTree - this makes engines in an atmosphere more difficult, but Vacuum ISP is exactly this same.
• Simplex Resources adds some extra Ores, and so makes ISRU harder if I choose to do ISRU (I will).  This also re balances the fuel tanks, but ISP of the engines remains the same.  Fuel needs to created from two different Ores.

I'm using Kerbalism Simplex (LS mods allowed), but I'm not going to use the Gravity wheel for this mission.  If anything Kerbalism is going to make stock craft heavier with shielding and quality upgrades.

Thanks for answering questions!

[Pro100kerbonaut]

I forgot to remove Hyperedit for the first half of the mission. Can I submit if I have video proof that i didn't use it?

[ralanboyle]

My video was accepted and I have hyperedit but didn’t use it. 

[Pro100kerbonaut]

Jebediah's level

KSP 1.9.1

Mods used: KER

4 launches

5 kerbals

10238 science

[RoninFrog]

2 hours ago, Pro100kerbonaut said:

Jebediah's level

KSP 1.9.1

Mods used: KER

4 launches

5 kerbals

10238 science

Man that Pol landing/ascent was painful to watch. 

Ah, you committed the second classic blunder of KSP: forgetting the parachutes.

(the first is forgetting to extent the solar panels)

Edited April 2, 2020 by RoninFrog

[JacobJHC]

On 3/30/2020 at 2:30 PM, Ksp Slingshooter said:

Here's my entry for (the 3rd Level of) the Jool-5 Challenge:

https://imgur.com/gallery/aFj5zyU

Mission Details:

1. This mission doesn't use any ISRU's
2. The mission complies with all the rules
3. KSP version: 1.9.1
4. Mods used: Throttle control avionics, Kerbal Engineer Redux
5. Kerbals on mission: 5
6. Launches needed to start the mission from Kerbin: 5
7. Total the mission cost: 462479 funds (404469 interplanetary + 58010 Jool-5 Rescuer)
8. No refuel mission was needed to provide extra fuel+oxidizer since all Kerbin launches; however refer to bulletpoint 9.
9. I used some of the Bop and Pol Lander's Liquid fuel to refuel the Mothership, but I guess it wasn't needed (the mission must be doable without this)
10. No extra stuff was carried in the mission
11. Delta-V information is on the imgur album

It wasn't without problems though.
It all went smoothly except for the: 

• aerobraking on Laythe from a high relative velocity, which meant that I didn't manage to avoid exploding 2 non-essencial pieces (1 landing leg and 1 RCS thruster block) in order to aerocapture in Laythe's orbit
• takeoff from Laythe with a severely unbalanced, unstable lander that had a very high tendency to flip (this meant I had install TCA for control and I had to takeoff extremely slowly wasting precious delta-V)
• landing on Tylo (took me several attempts, since I've never landed in such high-G moon, especially with a low TWR lander) (I had to use some fuel from the ascent stage)
• rescuing the Kerbals from an hyperbolic trajectory (I built a rescuer with just enough delta-V to rendezvous with the Mothership, which meant that I could only rendezvous from a point at less than 3 minutes from reentry to try and rescue 5 Kerbals)

Congratulations @Ksp Slingshooter for completing the Jool 5 Challenge on level 3! Your mothership is one of the more practical looking ones I've ever seen, and the way the landers all left the mothership in Jool orbit to get to all the moons in definitely something I haven't seen before. I thought your Tylo lander was impressive, I like the Vall-Laythe rescue, and I'm impressed on your dedication to get everyone home on ladders, not to mention the last minute rendezvous. One question though, how did you timewarp back to Kerbin if the kerbals on ladders prohibited it?

On 4/1/2020 at 11:03 AM, SiriusRocketry said:

@JacobJHC I regret to inform you that my Jool 5 has failed.

The Deep Space Transfer Vehicle was too low on dV, and one of the fuel lines on the Tylo lander straight up vanished, for no discernible reason, during Tylo descent. Valentina had to manually abort the Tylo landing during descent, and redocked with the mothership. I transferred all the fuel out of the Laythe and Tylo landers (except for the Tylo lander's upperstage, which will now be repurposed as a Vall/Bop/Pol lander) and abandoned the landers in Tylo orbit. Will continue recording my videos as I plot a restricted mission to Vall, Bop and Pol, then back to Kerbin, where the Space Program is likely to be shuttered thanks to the non-completion of the Jool-5 mission, or at least kept barely afloat thanks to the scant funding from landings on the other moons, resulting in the closure of all missions outside Kerbin SOI for a while.

Of course this has all been recorded, and video will be up soon.

 

I am sorry to hear that. My first ever Jool 5 attempt ended similarly. My Tylo lander got krakened, so the booster engines were rooted to each other, and the core stage was just there. The craft literally came apart like legos, and I had to abort the mission. I will be sure to see your videos when they come up. I wouldn't get too discouraged though. Since you know exactly what went wrong, testing and attempting again could help the KSC complete the mission.

On 4/2/2020 at 4:07 AM, Pro100kerbonaut said:

I forgot to remove Hyperedit for the first half of the mission. Can I submit if I have video proof that i didn't use it?

No worries, as long as your mission has no inconsistencies you're fine. I did the same thing on my first Jool 5.

On 4/1/2020 at 5:12 PM, theJesuit said:

I'm thinking of attempting/ and then submitting a Jool-5, probably ISRU from my current career save in 1.8.1 but have a few questions:

1. This doesn't have to be the first trip to Jool in a save or does it?
2. Is kOS allowed? - I use this only for initial launches from Kerbin.
3. Is NodeSplitter allowed?
4. Is ReStockPlus allowed, or should I make the Jool-5 craft a 'stock only'?  I'm only going to use the 'Stock engines'
5. Would the Simplex mods be allowed?

• It's a career with Simplex TechTree - this makes engines in an atmosphere more difficult, but Vacuum ISP is exactly this same.
• Simplex Resources adds some extra Ores, and so makes ISRU harder if I choose to do ISRU (I will).  This also re balances the fuel tanks, but ISP of the engines remains the same.  Fuel needs to created from two different Ores.

I'm using Kerbalism Simplex (LS mods allowed), but I'm not going to use the Gravity wheel for this mission.  If anything Kerbalism is going to make stock craft heavier with shielding and quality upgrades.

Thanks for answering questions!

Hello,

1. Nope, it does not.

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes

5. Yes

Best of luck!

[JacobJHC]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:11 PM, Pro100kerbonaut said:

Jebediah's level

KSP 1.9.1

Mods used: KER

4 launches

5 kerbals

10238 science

Yes! Video submissions are my favorite! It's a little long though, so I'll watch it later today and judge it then. Just based off the thumbnail the mission looks amazing though!

[Ksp Slingshooter]

3 hours ago, JacobJHC said:

Congratulations @Ksp Slingshooter for completing the Jool 5 Challenge on level 3! Your mothership is one of the more practical looking ones I've ever seen, and the way the landers all left the mothership in Jool orbit to get to all the moons in definitely something I haven't seen before. I thought your Tylo lander was impressive, I like the Vall-Laythe rescue, and I'm impressed on your dedication to get everyone home on ladders, not to mention the last minute rendezvous. One question though, how did you timewarp back to Kerbin if the kerbals on ladders prohibited it?

Thank you @JacobJHC, I thought separating from the mothership in Jool orbit and making use of gravity assits was standard procedure for a Jool-5 mission.
My Apollo-style descent/ascent Tylo Lander was indeed truly impressive, if I do say so myself. And the first time I've built something like it.
From the moment my Laythe lander couldn't get to orbit without spending unecesssary amounts of fuel or without flipping over, I had to go really creative to think of a rescue plan and figure out if I had enough delta-V to execute it or the mission would be over. I was always "Oh no, I'm tightly budgetted for delta-V what do I do now?".

Every time I wanted to timewarp, I had to let go of the ladders, then the Kerbals would always drift away and I had to get them rendezvoused to the mothership every time I wanted to do a maneuver.

[JacobJHC]

2 hours ago, Ksp Slingshooter said:

Thank you @JacobJHC, I thought separating from the mothership in Jool orbit and making use of gravity assits was standard procedure for a Jool-5 mission.
My Apollo-style descent/ascent Tylo Lander was indeed truly impressive, if I do say so myself. And the first time I've built something like it.
From the moment my Laythe lander couldn't get to orbit without spending unecesssary amounts of fuel or without flipping over, I had to go really creative to think of a rescue plan and figure out if I had enough delta-V to execute it or the mission would be over. I was always "Oh no, I'm tightly budgetted for delta-V what do I do now?".

Every time I wanted to timewarp, I had to let go of the ladders, then the Kerbals would always drift away and I had to get them rendezvoused to the mothership every time I wanted to do a maneuver.

I suppose you're right about the Jool orbit thing, I just can't remember a submission that made it look so easy ;). Adding you to the leaderboard now.

[JacobJHC]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:27 AM, Carbonjvd said:

My submission for Level 2? of the Challenge, the IPV Excelsior an all-in-one SSTO and IPV hybrid vessel.

Jool-5 Challenge with IPV Excelsior

Back after a few years off of Kerbal for this challenge

The mission was flown and designed in v1.9.1, all stock with no mods.

Crew: 3 (Room for 5)

Number of Launches: 1

Number of Stages: 1

Launch Cost: $332,122

Launch Mass: 380.78 tons (Partially fueled)

Max Mass: 415.78 tons (Fully fueled)

Engines: 5 Vectors for high impulse and 4 Nukes for high endurance

ISRU: 4 Large Drills and 1 Refinery for refueling at every landing

 

The IPV Excelsior started out as an overengineered Mining Tanker hybrid for the Jool system, but performed way better than anticipated so I figured why not. Kitted it out with the additional components for Kerbals to access the surface, along with more heat resistant components to survive atmospheric captures.

Mission Profile:

• Kerbin to Minmus (Refuel)
• Minmus to Jool
• Jool to Bop (EVA and Refuel)
• Bop to Pol (EVA and Refuel)
• Pol to Tylo (EVA and Refuel)
• Tylo to Bop (Refuel)
• Bop to Vall (EVA and Refuel)
• Vall to Bop (Refuel)
• Bop to Laythe (EVA and Refuel)
• Laythe to Bop (Refuel)
• Bop to Minmus (Refuel)
• Minmus to Kerbin (Completed)

Congratulations @Carbonjvd on completing the Jool 5 Challenge! I see you put this as a level two with a question mark after it, but since you picked up two of your crew from Minmus orbit, only the original crew member launched with the craft is being counted, meaning this is a level 1 submission. Regardless, that is quite the stylish vehicle, and I'm impressed you were able to make an SSTA that could handle Tylo THAT BIG. I'll add you to the leaderboard now.

[JacobJHC]

@Pro100kerbonaut I got through the first half today, I'll watch the rest tomorrow.

[JacobJHC]

@Pro100kerbonaut Congratulations on completing the Jool 5 challenge on Jeb's Level! I liked your asymmetrically balanced ship, and your parkour on Tylo. I'll add you to the leaderboard now.

One question though, what was with the second tap/landing on Vall? Did you abort the landing for slopped terrain?

[jost]

On 4/5/2020 at 12:46 AM, JacobJHC said:

I suppose you're right about the Jool orbit thing, I just can't remember a submission that made it look so easy ;). Adding you to the leaderboard now.

Actually it's not standard per se. The Kerpollo challenge demands to undock/redock from/to mothership inside the moons SOI

[Pro100kerbonaut]

5 hours ago, JacobJHC said:

@Pro100kerbonaut Congratulations on completing the Jool 5 challenge on Jeb's Level! I liked your asymmetrically balanced ship, and your parkour on Tylo. I'll add you to the leaderboard now.

One question though, what was with the second tap/landing on Vall? Did you abort the landing for slopped terrain?

Thanks! Valentina landed on Tylo before landing on Vall first time, so I just touched the surface with Jeb.