The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge Continued

[camacju]

On 11/14/2022 at 7:35 PM, JacobJHC said:Have you considered snapping a screenshot of the craft next to a single mammoth engine? It'd be cool to see the craft next to the engine you used as a mass goal. Adding you to the leaderboard now!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523675813217042465/1040140904729681940/image.png

[farmerben]

 

I did landed on all Jool Moons with this massive vessel.

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by 18Watt
Edited by moderation team.

[JacobJHC]

On 11/18/2022 at 5:14 PM, farmerben said:

 

I did landed on all Jool Moons with this massive vessel.

 

 

https://ibb.co/wJCPMB9

That definitely is a big vessel.  Is there more than one picture, perhaps some of the transits and landings?

 

On 11/16/2022 at 5:14 PM, camacju said:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523675813217042465/1040140904729681940/image.png

[Geryz]

uhh what happens if you violate rule 7 (being able to walk / swim on the surface), does that invalidate the entire challenge
edit: nevermind, spamming F fixed it

Edited December 4, 2022 by Geryz

[kspnerd122]

On 11/20/2022 at 5:24 PM, JacobJHC said:

That definitely is a big vessel.  Is there more than one picture, perhaps some of the transits and landings?

 

Question for you real quick, why ban certain mods, bc for me id say just let people have fun rather than disqualify them to complete the challenge, just add another category for "Casual" basically, no restrictions other than infinite fuel

[DerekL1963]

On 12/7/2022 at 6:29 PM, kspnerd122 said:

Question for you real quick, why ban certain mods, bc for me id say just let people have fun rather than disqualify them to complete the challenge

Speaking strictly for myself...

Certain mods tilt the playing field and/or reduce or entirely eliminate the challenge...  and the challenge is the point.  To demonstrate a breadth and depth of knowledge and a certain level of skill.  To make the challenge badge something a player has to work to earn.  To make it a mark of achievement.

And when I did it, I had a blast solving all the engineering and operational challenges.  If that's not what you find fun, the challenge is not for you.

[jost]

1 hour ago, DerekL1963 said:

Speaking strictly for myself...

Certain mods tilt the playing field and/or reduce or entirely eliminate the challenge...  and the challenge is the point.  To demonstrate a breadth and depth of knowledge and a certain level of skill.  To make the challenge badge something a player has to work to earn.  To make it a mark of achievement.

And when I did it, I had a blast solving all the engineering and operational challenges.  If that's not what you find fun, the challenge is not for you.

This. Of course I'm just speaking for myself, in the end it's up to JacobJHC. When the challenge was started it was even harder (since at that time there  ISRU didn't exist) and most mods were forbidden. You had to ask explicitly to get a permission for a certain mod. You also need to put the kerbals in a crew compartmend/pod/capsule/whatever during the interstellar voyage so you coudn't do everything just with a space chair. (1)
When JacobJHC took over he decided to change these rules (space chairs are allowed for interplanetary voyage too, most mods are allowed with some expections). Some mods are still forbidden and Jacobs reasoning is quite understandable:

Quote

Prohibited Mods (powerful enough to make the challenge trivial, or too confusing to judge): 

If there is nothing to judge there is not an archivement, if the mods are to powerful too. Jool5 is a different game when you can use an Orion device. 
However my Jool5 entry was also part of my submission to the Kerpollo Challenge. That challenge has it's own scoreboard for "rogue" entries (one entry used KOS violating a challenge rule but getting a kind of honourable mention since KOS is it's own challenge). However as far I remember you didn't got the badge in that way (ok one entry of the rogue list did but he didn't violated any rules, he just completed the challenge in two (!) of the needed nine missions, continuing with the remaining missions for fun)
So if JacobJHC like to add such a thing this might be a compromise. 
However I would prefer that these entries don't warrant the same badge (different one would be fine) since as I said: Jool5 with a kraken device or a Orion engine is a different thing.

Edit: I feel stupid now. This challenge has already such a list:

Quote

GATECRASHER / HONORARY MENTIONS: Missions completed the mission in spirit but didn't meet every requirement.

@kspnerd122 Why don't you just do something cool and submit it for the gatecrashers list? This seems like the right place for it.

Regards, Jost.

(1) Don't get this in the wrong way: With the old rule extreme low mass entry (14 tons and below) woudn't be possible so the new rule isn't a bad thing per se. Some folks however seem to see it as reason to "go the easy" route although they clearly have the skills to do it with regular compartments. Low mass is a different beast: It need's a lot of skill to pull these things off. I don't have these skills so much respect and kudos to the low mass engineers  

Edited December 9, 2022 by jost
I feel stupid we have already a gatecrashers highscore list *sigh*

[Richmountain112]

Why is atomic Age banned? Is it because the Nuclear Lightbulb is OP?

Also with regards to Jool, I installed a mod which gives it biomes. I wonder why Jool has no biomes in the Stock game when several modders have made gas planets with biomes.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Richmountain112

[Leganeski]

3 hours ago, Richmountain112 said:

Why is atomic Age banned? Is it because the Nuclear Lightbulb is OP?

That's probably the main reason. Engines from mods like Atomic Age are much better than stock ones and have practically no downside, so using them means you're not really doing the same challenge.

3 hours ago, Richmountain112 said:

Also with regards to Jool, I installed a mod which gives it biomes.

As long as you're not changing Jool's physical properties, this shouldn't matter unless you're doing a run on Jeb's Level. If you are, adding biomes to Jool does nothing but give you an unfair advantage over the other competitors because you have access to more science.

On the other hand, if you used the mod to add additional challenge by doing something like gathering low atmosphere reports from all the biomes, that would probably merit a spot in the gatecrasher leaderboard.

[Richmountain112]

I’ll go for the latter. The mod I installed only adds four biomes and I already got science from one.

I usually can only do 1 biome anyways if I'm heading to Jool because my destination is one of its moons.

[Richmountain112]

I usually only do 1 biome anyways if I'm heading to Jool because my destination is usually one of its moons.

[JacobJHC]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:29 PM, kspnerd122 said:

Question for you real quick, why ban certain mods, bc for me id say just let people have fun rather than disqualify them to complete the challenge, just add another category for "Casual" basically, no restrictions other than infinite fuel

Basically any mod except OP mods are allowed. The Gatecrashers / honorary mentions category is pretty much for casual or rule-breaking runs.

On 12/18/2022 at 7:13 PM, Richmountain112 said:

Why is atomic Age banned? Is it because the Nuclear Lightbulb is OP?

Also with regards to Jool, I installed a mod which gives it biomes. I wonder why Jool has no biomes in the Stock game when several modders have made gas planets with biomes.

Yeah it's because of the lightbulb.

Yeah not sure why Jool doesn't have biomes either, would be easy to add.

[Alpaca Z]

Video submission for low mass Jool 5 mission.

5.82 ton (excluding pilot mass) at launch. After a painfully long time, I was finally able to break Bradley Whistance record on this.

 

[kspfreak]

@JacobJHCI humbly present this mission for the Jool 5 and all moons challenge on level 1:

Most of the details you need to know is already in the video description.

Edited January 30, 2023 by kspfreak

[JacobJHC]

On 1/25/2023 at 3:09 AM, Alpaca Z said:

Video submission for low mass Jool 5 mission.

5.82 ton (excluding pilot mass) at launch. After a painfully long time, I was finally able to break Bradley Whistance record on this.

 

Congratulations on a record breaking Jool 5 mission!

You video was very well narrated and broke down your reasoning and potential improvements in an easy to understand way.  I think the most interesting thing you did was not use air-breathing engines for Laythe. The method you used saved weight and was not something many of us have considered. Congratulations on this achievement!

[LBDC]

Hi, I'm currently working towards posting my first submission to this challenge! However, I have some questions regarding the rules:

On 3/17/2018 at 12:03 AM, JacobJHC said:

2. No part-clipping of functional parts (fuel tanks, batteries, crew pods, engines, science parts, SAS) into each other. It is okay to clip structural and non-functional parts, wings, and heat shields.

Does ladders (such as Kelus-LV Bay Mobility Enhancer) under a faring, that once deployed, goes though the faring are considered a violation of this rule?

 

On 3/17/2018 at 12:03 AM, JacobJHC said:

All launches must be flown!

If I have to use MechJeb Smart. AS module to stabilize my ship, would it break this rule? I'm unsure of what this rules means

Thanks for answering me!

[JacobJHC]

2 hours ago, LBDC said:

Hi, I'm currently working towards posting my first submission to this challenge! However, I have some questions regarding the rules:

Does ladders (such as Kelus-LV Bay Mobility Enhancer) under a faring, that once deployed, goes though the faring are considered a violation of this rule?

 

If I have to use MechJeb Smart. AS module to stabilize my ship, would it break this rule? I'm unsure of what this rules means

Thanks for answering me!

For the ladders: No that's fine. I've built ships where I clip entire payloads out of a fairing to pretend I have a service bay.

 

For MechJeb: That's fine too. Good luck!

[JacobJHC]

On 1/25/2023 at 3:24 AM, kspfreak said:

I humbly present this mission for the Jool 5 and all moons challenge on level 1:

Most of the details you need to know is already in the video description.

Congratulations @kspfreakon going above and beyond for a level 1 submission! Your Tylo lander was a design I haven't seen in a while, your Bop landing paid a visit to the Kraken which is also not super common, and you visited every other moon in the solar system on top of that. Excellent work. Adding you to the leaderboard now.

[Leo-MathGuy]

Is SCANSAT allowed? For finding cool/nice landing spots and better resource scans

[JacobJHC]

10 hours ago, Leo-MathGuy said:

Is SCANSAT allowed? For finding cool/nice landing spots and better resource scans

Sure

[king of nowhere]

I thought back about being criticized for my kerbalism grand tours because my ships are unrealistically big, and I wondered, could I make a kerbalism Jool 5 with realistic constraints and the mass to orbit of a single Saturn V launch?

I had to cut comfort a bit too much at times, but here it is. A Jool 5 made to look as much as possible as a realistic mission with current technology. Well, if you ignore some whacky hijinks I had to pull because I'm only one guy doing this for hobby and can't plan as well as a real space agency.

 

[32r]

I brought along one too many Kerbal because of the autofill and only noticed over Tylo,  they haven't done anything like plant a flag, as a matter of fact that was the first time they left the ship.

So I just dumped them in orbit is that okay and I don't need to return them safely.

 

edit: nvm I'm redoing the whole mission with a new craft

Edited February 20, 2023 by 32r

[king of nowhere]

what happened to @JacobJHC? he was always reviewing new entries in a few days, and now mine has been unanswered for one month

[JacobJHC]

6 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

what happened to @JacobJHC? he was always reviewing new entries in a few days, and now mine has been unanswered for one month

Apologies, life got super busy and I forgot to check in. I'll have your submission reviewed tonight.

[JacobJHC]

On 2/15/2023 at 7:02 PM, king of nowhere said:

I thought back about being criticized for my kerbalism grand tours because my ships are unrealistically big, and I wondered, could I make a kerbalism Jool 5 with realistic constraints and the mass to orbit of a single Saturn V launch?

I had to cut comfort a bit too much at times, but here it is. A Jool 5 made to look as much as possible as a realistic mission with current technology. Well, if you ignore some whacky hijinks I had to pull because I'm only one guy doing this for hobby and can't plan as well as a real space agency.

 

Congratulations on completing the Jool 5 Challenge on level 1! Apologies again for the delay. Your mission's use of Kerbalism (specifically with Jool's radiation belt) added a level of anxiety not present in most Jool 5s. Usually I am just seeing how the landers were designed and what trajectories were used, but for this one I was genuinely concerned any time you had to dip into the danger zone. Your limitations to account for realism added an additional level of intrigue as well. It was very interesting to see what compromises you made and when. Overall, I found your mission very entertaining to review, and it was very thought provoking when considering how a real space agency might have done it. Fantastic job! I'll add this submission to the leaderboard now