Patch 1.4.3 to be released next week!

[Phreakish]

42 minutes ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

...for those of you complaining about the landing gear bug and other "game breaking bugs" in 1.4.2, I forgot that 0.21 had an AWESOME bug in it: back then, the biggest fuel tank was the Jumbo-64 (the orange tank) and the biggest engine was the Mainsail. And if you put a Mainsail directly below a Jumbo-64 tank, the Mainsail would overheat in seconds and explode! How's that for a bug? You had to work around it by sticking another small fuel tank between the Jumbo-64 and the Mainsail, and then the engine would still start to overheat but it wouldn't get hot enough to explode.

A pre 1.0 game-breaking-bug is not the same as a post 1.0 game-breaking-bug. Pre 1.0 it's expected. Post 1.0 it should be addressed QUICKLY to avoid the game-breaking part. Not delayed to bundle it with content. 

Post 1.0 the game-breaking prefix should be relegated to history. Instead, 'making history' apparently means 'repeating history'. True 1.x+ releases should be thoroughly tested and vetted prior to publication rather than hurried-up to hit some arbitrary deadline imposed by the new-powers-that-be. An opt-in (or pre-screened user pool) beta release channel could have done much to avoid all the drama and is not unheard of in development. 

[maceemiller]

.....im thinking this thread has steered off line a little from its original meaning....im reading what i call "picking at each other" between members here...shall we get back on track and be excited a new update is coming?

Just my opinion....

Edited April 25, 2018 by maceemiller

[MechBFP]

Can you drop the patch today please?

[Serenity]

3 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Can you drop the patch today please?

At this point i am just hoping it will drop this week.

I used to visit these forums with a smile now i visit them with a total different set of emotions.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Boyster

[Mrcarrot]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

Can you drop the patch today please?

It will come when it's ready(hopefully). These delays are actually good things, as they will result in a better-tested and hopefully less bugged version of KSP. Give SQUAD time to do what (as far as I know) they have never done before and actually thoroughly test and ensure that their update works.

[Serenity]

4 minutes ago, Mrcarrot said:

It will come when it's ready(hopefully). These delays are actually good things, as they will result in a better-tested and hopefully less bugged version of KSP. Give SQUAD time to do what (as far as I know) they have never done before and actually thoroughly test and ensure that their update works.

Every single point you made contradicts itself, but then again hope makes us act and think like that.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Boyster

[Cavscout74]

8 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Can you drop the patch today please?

I'm looking forward to it too but after two patches that have progressively made things worse, I'm happy to wait for something to actually get fixed & play 1.3.1 until then.

[juanml82]

2 hours ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

Just for kicks, I fired up an old copy of 0.21 and launched a capsule straight up. The reentry effects didn't kick in until you were down to about 25km, had no effect at all on the craft (purely visual), and were pretty minimal. IMO, they still looked better than what we currently have, though.

Now, for those of you complaining about the landing gear bug and other "game breaking bugs" in 1.4.2, I forgot that 0.21 had an AWESOME bug in it: back then, the biggest fuel tank was the Jumbo-64 (the orange tank) and the biggest engine was the Mainsail. And if you put a Mainsail directly below a Jumbo-64 tank, the Mainsail would overheat in seconds and explode! How's that for a bug? You had to work around it by sticking another small fuel tank between the Jumbo-64 and the Mainsail, and then the engine would still start to overheat but it wouldn't get hot enough to explode.

Yes, it was early access. It had issues, that was expected.

 

IMHO, Squad/Take Two should finish this patch, stop all development of KSP and start over with KSP 2 or other franchise games like Kerbal Aeronautic Program, Kerbin Boat Simulator or something like that, learning from the development experience of KSP 1, but starting over from a more robust base: maybe a better engine (if there is one), modern graphics (and a modern graphical design including minimaps and not loading everything at startup), cpu usage optimization, good gameplay mechanics (ie, career), less reliance on mods to fill in when the stock game doesn't deliver and some sort of development that doesn't mean any new patch means new bugs and waiting weeks for mods to update. Just imagine the state of the modded game if linuxgurugaming wasn't around.

 

Or image, I don't know, Skyrim if the suits of armor were incomplete, the journal and fast travel were only available through mods, experience was gained only by doing the Radiant quests and the graphics looked like 10-15 years old game

Edited April 25, 2018 by juanml82

[Alexoff]

There are two ways of arguing with KSP

1 - there is no development in KSP, only bugcreating with bugfixing, no planets, no places of interest, no goals for players, maybe once in a year Squad install some simplified old good mod into stock game. And after every big patch game lost saves, cant load old crafts or old crafts now just exploded or doesn't reach orbit... and so one.

2 - KSP is a best game in the world, shut up!

But guys, how many early KSP developers  now work in Squad? There are some differences between KSP creators and Squad owners.

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, Jackaroo0505 said:

Is it going to release tomorrow?

It's just like cold fusion - many have said that cold fusion is 20 years away and they've been saying that for decades 

Ingenious really to title the thread "to be released next week".... In all seriousness I'd rather wait til they get it right.

[Alexoff]

9 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Ingenious really to title the thread "to be released next week".... In all seriousness I'd rather wait til they get it right.

Nope, "next fullworking nonbugged patch will be released next month"

[Jognt]

40 minutes ago, Tyko said:

It's just like cold fusion - many have said that cold fusion is 20 years away and they've been saying that for decades 

Ingenious really to title the thread "to be released next week".... In all seriousness I'd rather wait til they get it right.

I have way more respect for someone that delivers quality work late with an apology than someone that delivers rubbish on schedule.

Of course I still want it all yesterday.. But that is only human and shows that despite my gripes with KSP, I still love it enough to want it so badly.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Jognt

[Wallygator]

12 hours ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

I’m sure there is a joke there, but I’m failing to find it. Are you mocking me for being redundant in calling 0.21 “old” because it is old by definition? I’m lost.

It’s an old joke as well.  Badum tish!

Mocking? No, I am not. I would make it obvious if I was (and expect a deserved poke by a moderator)  

Now, let me add to the .2x vs 1.4.x comparison...

In all seriousness, I see a strange set of comparisons: Stark contrast in features and performance, yet little change in content. With mod creators continuing to creatively add definition and depth to the game in ways the developers cannot (or choose to not) effectively envision. 

Perhaps “platform” is a better descriptor than “game”. 

 

[Andrey.gr]

RIP 1.4.3...

12 hours ago, Jognt said:

I have way more respect for someone that delivers quality work late with an apology than someone that delivers rubbish on schedule.

Of course I still want it all yesterday.. But that is only human and shows that despite my gripes with KSP, I still love it enough to want it so badly.

Oh you are the one of the early backer for the "quality" SC I guess, promises should be kept, everything else doesn't matter.

[Fourjays]

14 hours ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

Just for kicks, I fired up an old copy of 0.21 and launched a capsule straight up. The reentry effects didn't kick in until you were down to about 25km, had no effect at all on the craft (purely visual), and were pretty minimal. IMO, they still looked better than what we currently have, though.

I decided to bite the bullet and update to 1.4.2 last night. The reentry effects were actually worse than I expected. It's not just that they show through the craft, but they also seem really big and as you zoom in/out they constantly change shape in weird ways. The previous effects were definitely better and I'm not sure why they even changed them. Hopefully a fix for those is included in 1.4.3 too.

As a developer myself (10+ years web dev, 3 years leading a team of modders and recently started game dev), I think some people in this thread are being too harsh. Debugging and fixing bugs can be really hard sometimes (in my modding team we currently have an item that exhibits a bug that no other items have, yet the configs for all items are exactly the same - go figure) and you've unfortunately just got to be patient. It's better that they take the time and get it right than try to rush another patch out and break something else.

I also think others here are being too forgiving. Some of the issues in 1.4.2 are things that QA wouldn't necessarily spot easily (legs/docking) and take time to debug/fix. But other issues give me the impression that developers aren't even checking that their work "works" (reentry effects/5m fairing). It'd be fine if the QA was very thorough, but it isn't. It wouldn't be unreasonable if KSP was still early access either, but it isn't. It is probably down to pressure from above to meet a specific date, but regardless it isn't a good look for a "complete" game.

Hopefully they've learned from their mistakes though and are going to treat future patches with more professionalism. That they are taking the time to get 1.4.3 right is a good sign.

In the meantime I'm going to have fun with 1.4.2 because it is a nice update despite the bugs and the ugly reentry effects.

[steve_v]

4 minutes ago, Fourjays said:

Some of the issues in 1.4.2 are things that QA wouldn't necessarily spot easily (legs/docking)

Really? QA wouldn't involve launching a craft with landing legs? Docking I can understand, but for the exploding gear a pod with landing legs spawned on the launchpad is all the testing required.

3 minutes ago, Fourjays said:

Hopefully they've learned from their mistakes though and are going to treat future patches with more professionalism.

I hope too... But I've been hoping for this since 1.0.

[Andrey.gr]

32 minutes ago, Fourjays said:

I decided to bite the bullet and update to 1.4.2 last night. The reentry effects were actually worse than I expected. It's not just that they show through the craft, but they also seem really big and as you zoom in/out they constantly change shape in weird ways. The previous effects were definitely better and I'm not sure why they even changed them. Hopefully a fix for those is included in 1.4.3 too.

As a developer myself (10+ years web dev, 3 years leading a team of modders and recently started game dev), I think some people in this thread are being too harsh. Debugging and fixing bugs can be really hard sometimes (in my modding team we currently have an item that exhibits a bug that no other items have, yet the configs for all items are exactly the same - go figure) and you've unfortunately just got to be patient. It's better that they take the time and get it right than try to rush another patch out and break something else.

I also think others here are being too forgiving. Some of the issues in 1.4.2 are things that QA wouldn't necessarily spot easily (legs/docking) and take time to debug/fix. But other issues give me the impression that developers aren't even checking that their work "works" (reentry effects/5m fairing). It'd be fine if the QA was very thorough, but it isn't. It wouldn't be unreasonable if KSP was still early access either, but it isn't. It is probably down to pressure from above to meet a specific date, but regardless it isn't a good look for a "complete" game.

Hopefully they've learned from their mistakes though and are going to treat future patches with more professionalism. That they are taking the time to get 1.4.3 right is a good sign.

In the meantime I'm going to have fun with 1.4.2 because it is a nice update despite the bugs and the ugly reentry effects.

May be problem in your development skills and team, with lack of the architecture and design patterns from the beginning? Because if you unable to track down and fix fatal bug, then may be  better to stay away from game development? Because Web development way more easy than game development? Where solid knowledge of  data structures and algorithms are essential, and you should able to do k-d tree traversal on the paper with pencil when you awakened early at the night?

Edited April 26, 2018 by Andrey.gr

[Jognt]

1 hour ago, Andrey.gr said:

RIP 1.4.3...

Oh you are the one of the early backer for the "quality" SC I guess, promises should be kept, everything else doesn't matter.

Hah. No, no way am I backing vaporware like that.

Just because I'm not souring the mood with pitchforks and torches doesn't mean I'm not annoyed with the state of recent patches. It just means that I realize that those pitchforks and torches won't magically create better patches.

[MechBFP]

I am seeing a lot of changes to scratchpad_3 as of 30 mins ago, I think it is coming out today for sure.

[Johnny Wishbone]

I think the point that I was trying to make in my original post may have been missed; that is entirely my fault as I didn't do a good enough job making it.

The screenshot was in response to another poster's comment about the old re-entry effects. I just wanted to show off what they looked like going back as far as 0.21, and I threw in my own opinion on how I feel about the old effects vs the current ones we have.

The second point about the bug(s) is the part I think got missed. I wasn't trying to compare bugs from then to bugs from now, or say that things like this should or shouldn't be happening. It was more to relay a story about how easy a ridiculous bug like that could get into any version of the game. See, back then, the Mainsail/Jumbo-64 combo was probably used in 90+% of all rockets built. Those were the biggest engines and fuel tanks available, and if you were launching anything bigger than a one-man capsule or Stayputnik, you were using a Jumbo-64 and a Mainsail. And larger ships required multiple stacks of them (with sometimes crazy asparagus staging). These weren't obscure or rarely used parts back then. Today, yeah, a lot of people probably don't use the Mainsail or have it directly attached to a Jumbo-64 tank. So, for such a significant bug to go unnoticed on such a heavily used part combination was kind of astonishing even then. It was such a common combination that you would think someone doing QA testing would have put together a rocket using a Jumbo-64 and a Mainsail, launched it, and noticed within the first 5 seconds that the engine overheated and exploded. That's how quickly it happened thanks to that bug: launch, immediate overheat bar, 1..2..3..4..5..BOOM!

Anyway, I just wanted to share that fun bug from back in the day. That's all. I had completely forgotten about it until I tried launching a capsule to show off the re-entry effects from back in that version, and had my rocket pretty much instantly blow up. Then I remembered "Oh yeah...that was a thing! Lol." These kinds of bugs happen. They'll get fixed.

[Tfin]

44 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I am seeing a lot of changes to scratchpad_3 as of 30 mins ago, I think it is coming out today for sure.

I do hope so. I guess it's still early in the day, so I'll check back this evening.

[Nils277]

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

I am seeing a lot of changes to scratchpad_3 as of 30 mins ago, I think it is coming out today for sure.

I kinda doubt it. There have been equally as many or more changes in the last days. There were e.g.  a lot of changes seven days ago for Making History.

Probably they just updated a prerelease of the patch for internal testers.

[Burning Kan]

A candidate for a last minute implementation?

:

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/59724-112-v04-resource-details-in-tracking-center/

Or:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WNATF9mzI  Wish u the best release -feedback ever

 

peace

k

Edited April 26, 2018 by Burning Kan

[Lisias]

On 4/25/2018 at 8:39 AM, klgraham1013 said:

Well, as far as I know, this one isn't the case.  There was even a question on whether KSP would jump to Unity 5, and to this new version for 1.4.  In fact most released games don't change the engine their on once they're released, because they're released.  It's almost like KSP isn't 1.0 after all.

EXACT. This is essentially KSP 2.0 now.

Perhaps this is the strategic error they did: they handled what should be a major release as it was a mere minor one! 

[klesh]

2 hours ago, MechBFP said:

I am seeing a lot of changes to scratchpad_3 as of 30 mins ago, I think it is coming out today for sure.

 

 

What, may I ask, is scratchpad_3?