Shower thoughts

[SunlitZelkova]

I think that Carl Sagan's "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is not the gotcha a lot of people think it is.

What is extraordinary is subjective.

So for example, if raw milk being unsafe is extraordinary to a person, they can then require evidence extraordinary evidence to be convinced it is true.

They are free to set the definition of extraordinary at an astronomical extreme so that they will never have to change their mind.

I think when it comes to convincing people to believe something, the character and conduct of the people involved is much more important than the content of the notion in question. A person can dress up their claim with all the cool educational videos and perfectly crafted PR materials, but at the end of the day if the people they are trying to convince are inclined to stick to their own way of life, the attempt to convey the information will fail.

[Nuke]

thinking about starship, specifically the non explodie v1, and wondering how to improve tps systems.

then thinking about the capabilities of heat pipes and how hard it is to desolder them from heatsinks without destroying them with how good they are at doing their job.

starship is covered in stainless steel, the perfect heat sink (at least the back half).

so lets say we attach a small network of heat pipes from the flap joints to the back of the hull where its cooler.  the pipes would be insulated anywhere there are tiles.

the flap half of the joint is heat piped to the top panel on the flaps.

this led to an internal debate about the optimal frequency of showering, likely inspired by the deluge system and all the dirty falcon boosters. i realized that there are really 3 forms of showering: vanity showering, people who need 3 showers daily, or the thorough shower you take before a hot date. then there is social showering, which is the common once a day shower that usually lasts 10 minutes tops, mostly intended not to offend the people at work. then there is minimal hygene showering which is the bare minimum not to succumb to disease from your own filth. im somewhere between the latter two due to electricity being expensive and water heaters being inefficient.

this led to the realization that most people are still operating on the miasmatic principal about the concept of hygene. even though that hasn't been popular since the plague doctor was a thing. most perfumes, colognes, and deodorants need to add some disgusting component to the fragrance for it to smell right. they also hide the fact that maybe your date isnt as clean as they smell. rasputin never had that problem and he considered bathing a mortal sin, and never harmed his ability to sleep with half of the royal court. strong disgust reflex is a sign of low intellegence and perhaps reducing your shower frequency gets all the stupid people away from you. its probibly good for the environment too. the former being the better advantage. but maybe if you are showering less frequently than a maximum security prisoner, you might be going too far.

then i started thinking about when it would be likely that falcon boosters might benefit from a scrub down every now and again. taking all that dirt to space every time probibly bites you in the fuel budget. since those deluge tanks are there, you might be able to hook some pumps up to the main tanks, and put a big shower head in the megabay and have space-x employees go at it with a bunch of push brooms. then came the question of soap residue. then i realized i was thinking about heat piping a starship which is better than bathing a falcon. it probibly wouldnt work, copper is heavy. and finding a heat pipe medium that can operate at arc welder tempuratures without exploding is probibly a nontrivial amount of materials science.

[ColdJ]

The song that is stuck in my head today is "Time in a Bottle" by Jim Croce. While I was looking up one to link to on YouTube I read a comment and learned something that I didn't know.

Jim Croce had sent a letter to his wife, saying that he was giving up touring to spend the next 30 years with her and their 1 year old son.

He died in a plane crash 3 days later.

I wanted to sob, but today's world has already stolen all my tears.

[SunlitZelkova]

8 hours ago, ColdJ said:

The song that is stuck in my head today is "Time in a Bottle" by Jim Croce.

This song actually came up in my YouTube suggestions a couple days ago. I'll have to give it a listen now.

[ColdJ]

The annexing of Canada and possible nuclear war sounded familiar, so I have started collecting bottle caps.

I wonder if they will accept plastic?

[adsii1970]

Yesterday, during my office hours, a young student came to me to explain how unfair I was being to him. I've taught at the university and community college level for over twenty years, so having a student tell me I am not being fair to them is nothing new. But this student explained this:

Quote

Your insistence that assignments must be turned in by a due date is not fair. My generation resents due dates, attending class, and being told what to do by Boomers. You need to get a grip we will be in charge and there's nothing you can do to  stop us.  I won't fail your class, and if I do, I'll just repeat it until you get tired of me. You'll see. 

Another faculty member walked by and heard this young man screaming at me, so she stepped in to try to redirect the conversation. She was promptly shouted down and told she was also part of the problem. At most, she's only about twelve years older than the student. But what still bothers me is the disconnect the young man has with academia—no one forces anyone to go to a university or community college. It is a choice that each potential student makes. I come across many students in the average academic year who will tell me how much they hate still being in school at the university level. So, if it is hated so much, why not do something else? 

Not everyone's success leads through the halls of a university. Skilled labor jobs will always be in high demand, and many get paid as much or more than college graduates.  And why go to the university or community college directly out of high school? Why not spend a year or two doing something else before you continue your education? There are plenty of entry-level jobs that you could do, or even join the military, for a few years until you decide if trade school or formal university education is the right path for you. But when you decide on a university education, the attitudes, such as the young man yesterday, confound me - why?

 

 

 

[DDE]

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

no one forces anyone to go to a university or community college

Their parents and class expectations do.

And abandoning all sense of personal responsibility in favour of blaming society at large is in the vogue these days. Talk about voluntarily becoming a cog in the machine...

[Mikenike]

2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

no one forces anyone to go to a university or community college. It is a choice that each potential student makes. I come across many students in the average academic year who will tell me how much they hate still being in school at the university level. So, if it is hated so much, why not do something else? 

Well, as a college student,  no one is forced to go to class and do schoolwork like we were in High School, however we feel like we have to anyways. It's a problem that is multifaceted and complex, yet broken down is quite basic in practice. 

 For one, unless you get a blue collar job in a trade (which most of my generation is too soft for, as you can probably tell), unless you have a degree and either a lot of internship or work experience, no one is hiring you right away. I know plenty of people who got out of college with connections and high paying degrees, and despite all that, many companies didn't want them because they were untrained in the industry, despite having impressive internship and connections in the industry. This is why we feel it is important to have that piece of paper, because unlike back in the day, its practically a requirement for corporate jobs. 

Another part of it is because many of my generation are lazy. A lot of acquaintances of mine stay up till 3-4am and wake up at 12-1pm and play videogames all day. On top of that, most kids in this generation feel like they shouldn't have to do adult things and live the adult life. They are entitled and spoiled, often because the parents enable them to act like that. My little cousin is 6, and I don't know if I've heard his aunt and uncle tell him no and not seen him throw a conniption fit. Parents nowadays are softer on their kids than ever, they conform to the feelings of the kid instead of using productive discipline and teaching them how life works. I grew up with parents who didn't let me act like that and have things handed to me, yes, they are putting me through college, but they made sure that I knew what it meant to be a productive member of society and knew what real life was like. For this, I am grateful, because I don't know if I could tolerate myself if I acted like most of the kids nowadays. 

Edited Friday at 03:34 PM by Mikenike
Clarification and Re-ordering of layout

[adsii1970]

2 hours ago, DDE said:

Their parents and class expectations do.

And abandoning all sense of personal responsibility in favour of blaming society at large is in the vogue these days. Talk about voluntarily becoming a cog in the machine...

But at some point, one becomes responsible for one's life choices. I just do not get it. Maybe it's because I've had a TBI, and that old brain injury just doesn't let me understand it. 

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

For one, unless you get a blue collar job in a trade (which most of my generation is too soft for, as you can probably tell), unless you have a degree and either a lot of internship or work experience, no one is hiring you right away. I know plenty of people who got out of college with connections and high paying degrees, and despite all that, many companies didn't want them because they were untrained in the industry, despite having impressive internship and connections in the industry. This is why we feel it is important to have that piece of paper, because unlike back in the day, its practically a requirement for corporate jobs. 

Trade schools do a great job of preparing one for a good job, even a tech-oriented job, at half the cost, and often at a higher pay rate than most "white collar" jobs. Unfortunately, the 1990s group of educators saw blue collar jobs as "simpleton" jobs. However, an industrialized or post-industrialized society must have workers in these fields to function. There's no debate about it. If you have a plumbing or electrical issue on the weekend or a holiday, you'll find out how much we need them the hard way. And they get paid well. It's the same for car mechanics and other blue-collar jobs (I cannot think right now - my migraine has grown).

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

Well, as a college student,  no one is forced to go to class and do schoolwork like we were in High School, however we feel like we have to anyways. It's a problem that is multifaceted and complex, yet broken down is quite basic in practice. 

It's your future. Attending class and doing the required work is an investment in your future. As I tell most students who ask, whatever you put into any class will equal what you get out of the class. I've had this conversation a lot, trying to sell the importance of doing the coursework and attending class. But the problem is that most of the younger students are the "COVID-19 generation," meaning they went to school when COVID-19 and distance learning were a thing. The high school teachers in the tri-state area here adopted a "just turn it in when you get to it" strategy that many students carried over past high school. And of course, it doesn't work in the university or community college setting.  

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

Another part of it is because many of my generation are lazy. A lot of acquaintances of mine stay up till 3-4am and wake up at 12-1pm and play videogames all day.

This is not laziness. It is having one's priorities out of order.  Gotta work to eat pizza, afford the games, and live in a place. 

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

On top of that, most kids in this generation feel like they shouldn't have to do adult things and live the adult life. They are entitled and spoiled, often because the parents enable them to act like that. My little cousin is 6, and I don't know if I've heard his aunt and uncle tell him no and not seen him throw a conniption fit. Parents nowadays are softer on their kids than ever, they conform to the feelings of the kid instead of using productive discipline and teaching them how life works. I grew up with parents who didn't let me act like that and have things handed to me, yes, they are putting me through college, but they made sure that I knew what it meant to be a productive member of society and knew what real life was like. For this, I am grateful, because I don't know if I could tolerate myself if I acted like most of the kids nowadays. 

Heh, yeah. I'm glad I'm a Gen Xer. 

[Mikenike]

3 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

Unfortunately, the 1990s group of educators saw blue collar jobs as "simpleton" jobs.

It's this stigma along with the fact that my generation is too soft to do hard labor jobs like this. I know all of the guys who have come and done various work at most of my family's home and I know most of them make good 5, if not 6 figures. Our plumber is the owner of a multi-million dollar plumbing company and he is working close to 70 hours a week. Most of my generation couldn't work 50, much less 70 hours a week unless it was a computer game. 
 

8 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

This is not laziness. It is having one's priorities out of order.  Gotta work to eat pizza, afford the games, and live in a place.

I see why you say it's not lazy, and the more I think on it, it's a learned behavior that gets confused with lazy because of societal definitions. It's a learned behavior because it's often a case of how that person grew up, with no rules preventing from the habit of staying up late and waking up early being enforced.

[DDE]

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

But at some point, one becomes responsible for one's life choices.

Entire industries and fields of pseudoscience, from astrology to life coaching, work towards convincing them that one is not.

Edited Friday at 06:13 PM by DDE

[SunlitZelkova]

5 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

So, if it is hated so much, why not do something else?

I don't think his stated explanation for his behavior should be taken literally. Assuming this person has lived 18-26~ years, he may have been through quite a lot that causes him to "act out." His statements may simply be performative fluff, produced by an underlying behavioral quirk.

I put "act out" in quotation marks because I don't mean it in the colloquial, kind of derogatory sense, but as in literally "acting out of one's usual order." Possibly not by his own will, or at least not as the product of a properly weighed decision.

5 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

And why go to the university or community college directly out of high school? Why not spend a year or two doing something else before you continue your education? There are plenty of entry-level jobs that you could do, or even join the military, for a few years until you decide if trade school or formal university education is the right path for you. But when you decide on a university education, the attitudes, such as the young man yesterday, confound me - why?

I strongly disagree with Mikenike (who I assume is Gen Z, like myself) that this has anything to do with a particular age or educational/professional field. People, driven by "localized" (recent) or "distant" (further back in their past) factors will always find ways to avoid doing something from time to time.

Such contempt for university education almost certainly exists in relation to blue collar jobs and of course the military as well. At the end of the day, it is about choosing a method by which to obtain necessities. However, perception of whether the costs of any of those methods actually align with the reward can vary by the individual. It's an opinionated matter but the primacy of evidence-based arguments in the present day perhaps leads to people trying to "cobble together words" to make some sort of factual sounding explanation for why X thing is bad and Y thing is terrible.

In reality, it is simply an opinion. Differing opinions have no factual explanation, it is merely a facet of the human being.

That's my shot at explaining "why that attitude." 

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

Heh, yeah. I'm glad I'm a Gen Xer.

To support my belief that this has nothing to do with age or educational/professional field, allow me to provide an example.

I've been asking my dad, a member of Gen X, to go to the doctor for the past five years. He hasn't been in at least a decade and it is well past his due date for a colonoscopy.

He won't go to a doctor in the US. He says he is worried he won't understand them or they won't understand him... despite translation staff existing. He has said a couple times he would go when we visit Japan... and yet never does.

I and other members of my family have reiterated quite a few times how important a colonoscopy is, especially considering he smoked for a long time (youth until 2020), but he continues to refuse seeing a doctor in the US and then basically ignores the statement he made about seeing one in Japan.

Irrational refusal of tasks that the steadfast execution of which is deemed rational is not a phenomena limited in scope by age or sphere of life. People will come up with seemingly bizarre explanations for inaction on just about anything, whether they are 7 or 70.

[adsii1970]

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

I see why you say it's not lazy, and the more I think on it, it's a learned behavior that gets confused with lazy because of societal definitions. It's a learned behavior because it's often a case of how that person grew up, with no rules preventing from the habit of staying up late and waking up early being enforced.

Precisely, I would never confuse it with laziness. Laziness means not doing anything of value. Gaming does have value to the individual and a community of gamers. I work on a community campus where I am a faculty member of the "gaming guild," a group for students who are dedicated gamers. For many of them, I have become a de facto life coach. When they find out that a mid-fifties professor is also a gamer, they discover that I share a similar interest, a similar problem (the cost of gaming rigs, the lack of gaming time, and the current price of games), and they are more willing to open up about other issues, too. The younger crowd often fears that "growing into an adult" means giving up fun stuff. Let me assure you, it does not. It simply means you have to balance fun and work. 

41 minutes ago, DDE said:

Entire industries and fields of pseudoscience, from astrology to life coaching, work towards convincing them that one is not.

That's because they work for liberation—the liberation of cash from the wallets of those who seek their help. Now, that will be $35 for my services in explaining it to you.  Would you like to schedule another appointment for next week?

[Lisias]

6 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

But what still bothers me is the disconnect the young man has with academia—no one forces anyone to go to a university or community college. It is a choice that each potential student makes. I come across many students in the average academic year who will tell me how much they hate still being in school at the university level. So, if it is hated so much, why not do something else?

Because he wants whatever would be the benefits from attending a University at the same time he see all of that crap as a idiotic and artificial imposition aimed merely to prevent "people like them" from doing it.

They look at the Boomers and the wealth they have and see it as the reason he's struggling, because if Boomers would not had been "hoarding" such wealth, the money would be flowing towards them and their life would be easier.

C'mon, we were all teenagers once - and we all had our resentments toward the old guys by being constantly told "no" for most things we would like to do! (and it's probably the reason we are alive today ). But we had grew up and got over it. They don't.

One possible way to explain this generational phenomena is Narcissism. Not saying that the newer generations are more Narcissistic than the previous ones - some studies I had heard about says the Narcissism as a Pathology have the same incidence nowadays than in the past, what's happening is that it's being easier to identify them nowadays due the better awareness we have - but is a fact that Narcissistic behaviours are more rewarding nowadays, so "normal people" are internalizing them as an acceptable social trait.

And, so, "normal people" ends up behaving narcissistically because they weren't taught to know better.

The consequences of this social ticking bomb on the future is, frankly, worrying. Wars had happened in the past as consequence of such generational grudge as this is easily exploitable politically.

Edited Friday at 07:35 PM by Lisias
Tyops, as usulla...

[adsii1970]

48 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

His statements may simply be performative fluff, produced by an underlying behavioral quirk.

There's an attitude in some American higher education students where they go to a university or community college to "delay" adulthood. Their parents usually give them an ultimatum: get a full-time job, get an education, or go into the military. So, for many, the prospect of a college/university education seems like the path of least resistance and the least amount of demands. Unfortunately, these misguided students believe the university and community college campus is "high school 2.0." Of course, it is not. 

48 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I strongly disagree with Mikenike (who I assume is Gen Z, like myself) that this has anything to do with a particular age or educational/professional field. People, driven by "localized" (recent) or "distant" (further back in their past) factors will always find ways to avoid doing something from time to time.

Nah, we all go through a stage of life where we question "why should I have to work five days a week, forty hours a day as my parents did?" and "Not me, I want something different, I am going to remake the world with my ideas!" In reality, we are forced to bend our thinking to be more like that of reality. When I was 19, I joined the military because I failed out of the university on my first attempt. I was a music theory and composition major and already spoke English, French, and German well, so why must I take English, math, and biology? The result was that in all my music theory, orchestra, French horn, piano, and oboe classes, I had all As. But in my core classes, we will not talk about those.   I was the typical young person I see today. Yes, for the average American 18 to 24-year-old, I was one. I do get it. 

48 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Such contempt for university education almost certainly exists in relation to blue collar jobs and of course the military as well. At the end of the day, it is about choosing a method by which to obtain necessities. However, perception of whether the costs of any of those methods actually align with the reward can vary by the individual. It's an opinionated matter but the primacy of evidence-based arguments in the present day perhaps leads to people trying to "cobble together words" to make some sort of factual sounding explanation for why X thing is bad and Y thing is terrible.

There is still, and in my opinion, from what I have observed on every university campus I have taught over twenty years, by those who have had an academic career that goes from undergraduate student --> graduate student --> university professor, a general dislike exists towards blue collar workers and the trades. They think even less of unskilled workers. It's sad because it's like a giant echo chamber where you're nothing if you don't have a college or university degree. However, not everyone's path to happiness and contentment leads through the classroom. 

48 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

To support my belief that this has nothing to do with age or educational/professional field, allow me to provide an example.

I've been asking my dad, a member of Gen X, to go to the doctor for the past five years. He hasn't been in at least a decade and it is well past his due date for a colonoscopy.

He won't go to a doctor in the US. He says he is worried he won't understand them or they won't understand him... despite translation staff existing. He has said a couple times he would go when we visit Japan... and yet never does.

This is a big problem for Gen Xers and veterans in general. I hate going to the doctor with a purple passion. There were no urgent care clinics when we grew up in the '70s and the '80s. Everything went through the family doctor, the pediatrician, or the ER after hours, holidays, and the weekends. Our parents would usually yell at us, pop a band-aid on whatever it was, give us a Tylenol, tell us not to do it again, give us an ice pack, or in the '70s, the medical advice was "give 'em an enima" (don't ask if you don't know). We just hated letting our parents know we were hurting or sick out of fear of what argument, of what the home remedy our moms might try next, or what the doctor might prescribe (as you can tell, my parents were lower income, my father was a career enlisted military man).  Your father might have had a similar experience. 

48 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Irrational refusal of tasks that the steadfast execution of which is deemed rational is not a phenomena limited in scope by age or sphere of life. People will come up with seemingly bizarre explanations for inaction on just about anything, whether they are 7 or 70.

Nope, I was not saying that. My comment about being glad about being a Gen Xer is that I've reached the age where the only one I really have to worry about what they think is the man who stares back at me in the mirror. 

 

29 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Because he wants whatever would be the benefits from attending a University at the same time he see all of that crap as a idiotic and artificial imposition aimed merely to prevent "people like them" from doing it.

They look at the Boomers and the wealth they have and see it as the reason he's struggling, because if Boomers would not had been "hoarding" such wealth, the money would be flowing towards them and they life would be easier.

This is true. I hear this a lot. But the younger generation doesn't realize that it took their grandpappy from the time he was 18 until he was 68, or their parents, from the time they were 18 until they were 45 (the age most parents who have their oldest in the first two years of university classes or community colleges now) to accumulate the wealth they have now. Our pop culture obsession with instant results fuels part of this. Sorry, not everyone becomes a social media sensation, athlete, pop star, or actor before 25. Those people are the exception to a harsh world of realities. You're right - and it has nothing to do with hoarding but with hard work, dedication, thriftiness, and knowing how to save. 

29 minutes ago, Lisias said:

One possible way to explain this generational phenomena is Narcissism. Not saying that the newer generations are more Narcissistic than the previous ones - some studies I had heard about says the Narcissism as a Pathology have the same incidence nowadays that in the past, what's happening is that it's being easier to identify them nowadays due the better awareness we have nowadays - but is a fact that Narcissistic behaviours are more rewarding nowadays, so "normal people" are internalizing them as an acceptable social trait.

Social media has brought this "trait" out in many people. Sure, I've made a post and I have stated my views. But I am not trying to convince anyone that my views are 100% correct and without fault, and must be followed. That would be ignorant and brash of me to do that. However, I have noticed there are many in the younger crowd that, unless you agree with everything they believe, you are not worthy enough to connect with them and be allowed into the "ring of friendship." Some of my best friends do not share the same ideas (or favorite sports teams) with me (how can anyone like the Dallas Cowboys, Kansas City Chiefs, or Indianapolis Colts? Bleh). I have seen students not talking to each other on campus because of differing views on politics, religion, philosophy, etc. I have concerns about folks; when we refuse to communicate with one another, our world gets smaller. 

29 minutes ago, Lisias said:

And, so, "normal people" ends up behaving narcissistically because they weren't taught to know better.

The consequences of this social ticking bomb on the future is, frankly, worrying. Wars had happened in the past as consequence of such generational grudge as this is easily exploitable politically.

Oh, I agree. And because of what you said, they will pay a high price. Sadly. 

[Mikenike]

6 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

strongly disagree with Mikenike (who I assume is Gen Z, like myself) that this has anything to do with a particular age or educational/professional field. People, driven by "localized" (recent) or "distant" (further back in their past) factors will always find ways to avoid doing something from time to time.

I was trying to say that it's potentially because of his upbringing. I'm not going to push the blame on to the parents, but I find that when people act this way, it's typically because of a lack of a disciplined upbringing. 

6 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I don't think his stated explanation for his behavior should be taken literally. Assuming this person has lived 18-26~ years, he may have been through quite a lot that causes him to "act out." His statements may simply be performative fluff, produced by an underlying behavioral quirk.

I put "act out" in quotation marks because I don't mean it in the colloquial, kind of derogatory sense, but as in literally "acting out of one's usual order." Possibly not by his own will, or at least not as the product of a properly weighed decision.

This is exactly why I think it's because of a lack of discipline. One of the first things you learn is self control and awareness, at least in my experience and the experience of my friends. People who are self aware don't typically resort to yelling at their professor for being "unfair". I doubt that a kid who was taught discipline would act out like this, and if they would, then maybe it's an underlying issue. 

I'm not gonna sit and pretend that a disciplined upbringing is a cure-all, lord knows the amount of military/LEO/Firefighter's kids who have acted out like this to get "revenge", but its less likely when the person is taught discipline in the proper amount. 

12 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

My generation resents due dates, attending class, and being told what to do by Boomers. You need to get a grip we will be in charge and there's nothing you can do to  stop us

 This is an attitude that scares me. Because as arrogant and asinine as he sounds, he's unfortunately right. I only hope and pray that the people from my generation who eventually govern aren't as ideologically brainwashed by both sides and acting like this. People who think and act this way are the absolute last people who should be in charge. The tone this gives off honestly concerns me for what might happen when my generation comes into governmental and military power, especially if we continue on this course.  The arrogance coupled with entitlement is going to end in disaster.

As far as what Adsii said about the whole, you have to agree 100% with me ideologically to be my friend is why the above scares me. Its the same rhetoric that the 30s-40s Germans, Soviets, Communist Chinese, and Communist Koreans said before murdering millions for their differences. It's this attitude that makes me believe that my generation is headed for a disaster of proportions never before seen. With the way that political groups on both sides often portray the others, I could easily see many Western Countries populations committing genocides equal to the purges of European, Asian, and Middle Eastern countries of the 1900s in a short while after Gen Z comes to power, if not before then. 


Edit Note: Can't wait to see y'all's opinions on this one.

Edited Saturday at 12:52 AM by Mikenike
More Stuff

[magnemoe]

10 hours ago, Mikenike said:

Well, as a college student,  no one is forced to go to class and do schoolwork like we were in High School, however we feel like we have to anyways. It's a problem that is multifaceted and complex, yet broken down is quite basic in practice. 

No if not forced as in your homework is checked. In Norway this was true well past then you was  17 year old and the 9 now 10 year mandatory school is done. 
It was then don on your next level, you could then go for trades like an plumber or an academic track, with some overlap, its an joke in trade schools that electricians is more math heavy than nurses, who is likely true. 
You are now in an university or higher education position. Likely living away from your parents for extended time for the first time. 
No homework checks, no parents and a guy down the corridor has an moonshine still and another wanted to build an LAN.
Think it was close to 50% fail rate first year. 
this was 1990-93 +-1 year. 

Edited Saturday at 02:31 AM by magnemoe

[ColdJ]

@Mikenike, giving me hope that some GenZ actually think for themselves and are responsible.

I find it interesting that the original student that this is all about seemed to think that anyone not of their generation is a Boomer. Comes from being fed the excuse from a young age that Boomers are the cause of all the world's problems I guess.

@adsii1970, I would have been tempted to ask them for a Frisco Melt and a shake. Though if getting something done in a reasonable time is too hard for them, then even a life time job of working in a fast food restaraunt is probably too much for them.

"You need to get a grip we will be in charge and there's nothing you can do to  stop us." Should have said,"Gen Z yes, you not so much."

We like to blame parents and previous generations for creating the environment that nurtures this generation to be so self centred and "I want it now." That is slightly true. But the big problem is the culture of Capitalism and creating things without thought so we can sell more and more..

Capitalism won vs Communism because the benefits were more immediate. The world has never actually seen real communism on a large scale. The stuff they call communism in places like Russia and China was never even close to the real meaning. Greed and power always killed it. You can't have real Communism without real Democracy.

This rush into A.I and fake everything,(again to sell more stuff) is killing us. Try to get to a real movie trailer on YouTube without being bombarded by fake A.I ones that pretend to be real, these days.

We will get to the point where nothing is believed or trusted anymore. Maybe people will get out and meet people in person, just to know what is real. Though I am sure some company will soon want to show how smart they are by making fake people that it is hard to tell the difference.

So for those who always want to be the Devil's Advocate. Yes there is a big problem, even if it is a progression from attitudes from 100 years ago. Yes, if we had any sense we would lobby our decision makers to ban or tightly control certain technologies, just as they should be doing with carcinogens.

"Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing."

(Sorry, I know it went slightly sideways.)

 

[DDE]

14 hours ago, Mikenike said:

This is an attitude that scares me. Because as arrogant and asinine as he sounds, he's unfortunately right. I only hope and pray that the people from my generation who eventually govern aren't as ideologically brainwashed by both sides and acting like this. People who think and act this way are the absolute last people who should be in charge. The tone this gives off honestly concerns me for what might happen when my generation comes into governmental and military power, especially if we continue on this course.  The arrogance coupled with entitlement is going to end in disaster.

As far as what Adsii said about the whole, you have to agree 100% with me ideologically to be my friend is why the above scares me. Its the same rhetoric that the 30s-40s Germans, Soviets, Communist Chinese, and Communist Koreans said before murdering millions for their differences. It's this attitude that makes me believe that my generation is headed for a disaster of proportions never before seen. With the way that political groups on both sides often portray the others, I could easily see many Western Countries populations committing genocides equal to the purges of European, Asian, and Middle Eastern countries of the 1900s in a short while after Gen Z comes to power, if not before then. 

I still balk at applying this to the whole generation because I just don't see it being this widespread and severe. I think there are two distinct problems. Yes, Gen Z is a bit more infantile - because this has been increasingly accommodated, and because the economic environment it grew up in precluded the usual pathways of transition to adulthood. They are like this because their attitude to life - the basement-dwelling virgin, if you wish - has worked and the "out of the parents' house by 20" does not. Not in this economy. And upon collision with reality they seem to more or less moderate their tendencies.

Separate to this is the issue of political radicalization... but I seriously question if this is Gen Z's doing. The ranks of Internet radicals are full of late Gen Xers and millenials, and a minority of Gen Z are simply falling into an established lifestyle and profession of peddling a child's black-and-white thinking from the bully pulpit of expertise. Unfortunately there seems to be a market for people like this. The next logical question is why then aren't we already seeing the effects of their presence in politics... and I think we already do, at least in smaller states where "young, fresh faces" run the show without "adult" supervision. Irresponsibility, inability to see cause and effect, and complete disregard for anyone who is opposed to them - not just hatred, but disregard, the inability to even consider their counteractions - all run rampant.

I would name names, but this would become a colossal dumpster fire.