Apollo LEM

[Scarecrow]

I've just got back from a visit to the science museum in London, where they currently have an exhibit about space.  Part of that exhibit is a replica of the Apollo LEM and I have to say I was surprised at how big it was.  I guess my impression of how big it would be was influenced by models of the Saturn V rocket, where the LEM is quite small by comparison.  Having now seen a full size replica of the LEM, I'm finding it difficult now to imagine just how big the Saturn V actually was.

[linuxgurugamer]

Dont forget, the legs unfold in space.

There is a fill size Saturn V in Florida at the Kennedy Space Center, it’s quite the thing to see if you can

[Dafni]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow said:

I've just got back from a visit to the science museum in London, where they currently have an exhibit about space.  Part of that exhibit is a replica of the Apollo LEM and I have to say I was surprised at how big it was.  I guess my impression of how big it would be was influenced by models of the Saturn V rocket, where the LEM is quite small by comparison.  Having now seen a full size replica of the LEM, I'm finding it difficult now to imagine just how big the Saturn V actually was.

Yes, I know, right? That thing is bigger than the pics and videos make it seem.

And yes, the Saturn V was absolutely gigantic. An F1 engine alone is pretty huge. The nozzle is close to 4m in diameter IIRC.

[Bill Phil]

There's a good exhibit near Huntsville, Alabama. I've been there quite a bit. Seeing the Saturn V while driving around, even though it is a fake one, is always a cool moment.

Yeah. The Saturn V is gigantic. The first stage especially so. And it doesn't even get the upper stages to space...

[wumpus]

2 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

Yeah. The Saturn V is gigantic. The first stage especially so. And it doesn't even get the upper stages to space...

And that first stage is the only kerolox bit in the rocket.  Don't underestimate its relative density (I'd love to stick some of the boosters used in the Peacekeeper/MX-missile as boosters around it, that 1.15 TWR seems wasteful).

- yes, I know those boosters are from 10-20 years later, and even later than the Shuttle boosters.  They also burn a bit too long (83 seconds) but that's a far more sane time than the Shuttle boosters (which basically drag the shuttle to orbit).

[Scarecrow]

I've never been particularly interested in visiting America, but seeing that LEM has made me wonder about visiting one of the space museums to actually see the Saturn for real.  They had a J2 engine in the Science Museum, which was quite impressive, but we all know that the F1 engines were substantially bigger. 

The people who actually experienced that thing taking off must have found it to be a unique experience, never to be forgotten.  The size is one thing, which we can appreciate to some extent by seeing the museum exhibits, but I guess the sound generated at lift off is something that will be forever consigned to the past.

[razark]

6 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

There's a good exhibit near Huntsville, Alabama. I've been there quite a bit. Seeing the Saturn V while driving around, even though it is a fake one, is always a cool moment.

I was there in March.

I grew up and have spent most of my life a stones throw away from JSC.  I've seen the Saturn V they have many times.  It's still impressive, even though I see it nearly every day, and rarely even notice it.

 

Seeing the vertical stack model in Huntsville was a perspective changing experience.  It's like nothing else.  I don't care if you've seen other Saturn Vs.  If you ever have the chance to see the model in Huntsville, do so.

[NSEP]

The Saturn V is a flying skyscraper, and i really can't wrap my head around that.

The things humans can do is amazing.

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, wumpus said:

And that first stage is the only kerolox bit in the rocket.  Don't underestimate its relative density (I'd love to stick some of the boosters used in the Peacekeeper/MX-missile as boosters around it, that 1.15 TWR seems wasteful).

- yes, I know those boosters are from 10-20 years later, and even later than the Shuttle boosters.  They also burn a bit too long (83 seconds) but that's a far more sane time than the Shuttle boosters (which basically drag the shuttle to orbit).

Yes first stage was RP1 so much denser, 3rd stage would go into solar orbit or impact the moon.

The low TWR was probably because it was cheap to make first stage larger and add more rp1 and oxygen. 
MX missile was 4 stages so not very smart as an booster unless you only use 1 stage for an short burst like an oversized trashcan. 
The Soyuz however wins for me as they are so implausible, you can however only add 4 because of the oversize engines at bottom 8 would be awesome  

Never thought of the LEM as small as I allays see it with the astronauts. 
The Saturn 5 however is gigantic, takes some time to walk by, suspended in the roof and spread out a bit. 

You need an bus trip to get to the Saturn 5 facility this also take you past the WAB and two upper launch pads, the spacex one and the one still with the shuttle launch tower, recommend buying the trip at once at entering KSC as it might be queues. 

[Bill Phil]

25 minutes ago, razark said:

I was there in March.

I grew up and have spent most of my life a stones throw away from JSC.  I've seen the Saturn V they have many times.  It's still impressive, even though I see it nearly every day, and rarely even notice it.

 

Seeing the vertical stack model in Huntsville was a perspective changing experience.  It's like nothing else.  I don't care if you've seen other Saturn Vs.  If you ever have the chance to see the model in Huntsville, do so.

I grew up and spent... well, all of my life around MSFC. I've got a lot of family and friends employed by NASA, Boeing, Raytheon, and the like. 

I 100% agree. The vertical stack is amazing. I used to have to take I-565 to get to MSFC while interning at NASA, and after turning onto the exit to get to the gate I normally use, a view of the Saturn V would appear right in the middle of the road. It was breathtaking. Standing beneath it is always a great experience as well.

They've also got some test articles set up on their side in the Davidson Center. So you get one on its side and one standing upright. There's also a display of an LM mockup, and one of the reentry capsules (Apollo 16). MSFC is where the Saturn V was designed/developed, so I think the display is appropriate.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, Scarecrow said:

I've never been particularly interested in visiting America, but seeing that LEM has made me wonder about visiting one of the space museums to actually see the Saturn for real.  They had a J2 engine in the Science Museum, which was quite impressive, but we all know that the F1 engines were substantially bigger. 

The people who actually experienced that thing taking off must have found it to be a unique experience, never to be forgotten.  The size is one thing, which we can appreciate to some extent by seeing the museum exhibits, but I guess the sound generated at lift off is something that will be forever consigned to the past.

I would go for KSC and the real deal, Florida is an nice vacation spot itself spent 14 days down at the island chain at bottom 
Florida is also an hub for cruises. 

[razark]

19 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

They've also got some test articles set up on their side in the Davidson Center. So you get one on its side and one standing upright.

I have to admit, our Saturn V may be the only one made entirely of flight hardware, but MSFC's Saturn V display beats ours.

[Bill Phil]

46 minutes ago, razark said:

I have to admit, our Saturn V may be the only one made entirely of flight hardware, but MSFC's Saturn V display beats ours.

Yeah... It's certainly an awesome display. Although any display with a Saturn V is, by definition, awesome.

[wumpus]

2 hours ago, magnemoe said:

MX missile was 4 stages so not very smart as an booster unless you only use 1 stage for an short burst like an oversized trashcan. 

83 seconds was for one stage (stage 2 might have been a bit less, maybe around 60 seconds.  But nothing around 30 or so seconds like a typical solid booster). So very much like an oversized trashcan.  The whole stack presumably burned much longer than a Shuttle SRB (~120 seconds?).

[mikegarrison]

There is an actual early version of the LM on display in the Smithsonian Air and Space museum on the Mall.  LM-2 was built with the intention of using it in a LEO test mission, but the mission was canceled and so LM-2 was not launched. Instead it was used for ground-based testing. It was modified in 1970 to look like Apollo 11's LM.

It was restored again in 2016 and moved to a new display. (I saw it in person in the old location, but I haven't seen the re-restoration.)

Edited June 27, 2018 by mikegarrison

[Gargamel]

13 hours ago, Scarecrow said:

I've never been particularly interested in visiting America,

Don't hold our idiots against us.  The US is a wonderful and expansive place to explore.  If you get the chance, do come give us a visit.  We'd love to have you. 

Quick anecdote about some Europeans in the US:  I live outside of Cleveland, Ohio, and back in the 90's, my girlfriends relatives were in from Wales for a week or so, visiting.  At dinner one night, they spoke up and said "Tomorrow's weather is supposed to be quite nice, perhaps we could go see the Grand Canyon?"  After cleaning up the food spit across the room, we had to explain that was a roughly 30 hour drive of about 2,000 miles. 

So if you do come visit, just remember, Americans think 200 years is a long time, and Europeans think 200 miles is a long drive. 

Later that year, I did get to spend a month in London and Wales.  Beautiful country(s), wonderful people.  Can't wait to get back someday.    And you guys have castles everywhere.  They are literally in the way in some places. 

[NSEP]

How did nobody link this video?

 

[Xd the great]

Well, that video is about falcon 9 and stuff. Not Saturn Five.

Faalcon 9 is huge, but Saturn Five is even bigger.

[RealKerbal3x]

Still gives some perspective. The Saturn V is only a bit taller than the BFR.