What do you think about my idea for speed governor for car?

[Pawelk198604]

Due to my condition called Asperger Syndrome, I'm very interested in technology, especially in space and transportation. 

I'm from Poland in my country I'm almost 33 years old and as I sad have AS, I did not have a Driver License, because cities in Europe have good mass transit, even though I'm considered going to getting one, I suspect that doctor might by iffy about my due my AS even though I have superb cognitive ability given my condition [snip]

As I said I love tech technology I see that many cars are equipped with speed governors, I think it's a good idea if you gave your car to your child or employee. 

But one thing is bothering me what about overtaking if your child was going to overtake some stupid slob who driving 60 km/h on 100 km/h highway and he would not have enough power to perform manoeuvre? Or escaping some madman? 
So I think that speed governor should be integrated with obstacle avoidance system and have some safety override built in, the parent or vehicle owner would know that driver used it? and can ask why it was used and does it was justified? 
 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Vanamonde

[YNM]

48 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

if your child was going to overtake some stupid slob who driving 60 km/h on 100 km/h highway and he would not have enough power to perform manoeuvre?

That is why you need to pass an exam before granted a driver's license - knowing your limit, the car's limit and the conditions limit is the most important thing in driving.

The person who drives at 60 kph in a 100 kph limited road isn't wrong if there isn't a lower speed limit (or if the lower speed limit is at and or lower than 60) and if driving at speeds higher than that would create a more dangerous situation for them.

Obviously there are actual skills as well, but this is why in some cases you have driving lessons and advanced driving lessons that you could take. Or a friend that'll take you to the cutting edge of driving. (or even your parents.)

Edited December 25, 2018 by YNM

[magnemoe]

28 minutes ago, YNM said:

That is why you need to pass an exam before granted a driver's license - knowing your limit, the car's limit and the conditions limit is the most important thing in driving.

The person who drives at 60 kph in a 100 kph limited road isn't wrong if there isn't a lower speed limit (or if the lower speed limit is at and or lower than 60) and if driving at speeds higher than that would create a more dangerous situation for them.

Obviously there are actual skills as well, but this is why in some cases you have driving lessons and advanced driving lessons that you could take. Or a friend that'll take you to the cutting edge of driving. (or even your parents.)

Most modern cars actually have an speed governor but its based on the car with typical tires on highway. My car has 180 km/h, just reached that speed once trying to see that the max speed was.  
Reason modern cars tend to have them is that they have strong engines and are very aerodynamic and also have some gearing for cruise so they can reach higher speeds than car and tires is designed for.
Lots of heavy trucks has 80 km/h as max speed, governor limit is likely a bit higher. 

However maximum speed on highways is not the main danger, its speeding other places, mostly populated ones there speed limit often if 50 km/h. 
 

[YNM]

16 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

maximum speed on highways is not the main danger

It is in adverse conditions, also considering your eyesight, experience, focus and age, as well as the road condition (smooth ? holed ?).

16 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

... other places, mostly populated ones there speed limit often of 50 km/h. 

By this standard every road here does deserve it's lowly 40 km/h speed limit... but it literally is slow as snails XD

I suppose this is why we're living a bit dangerously - either you passes as an ace driver or you're stuck in a ditch somewhere 

[tater]

I think that the government should either do this, or require GPS tracking that automatically gives out substantial speeding tickets, or they should eliminate speed limits altogether. They are capable of citing everyone who speeds, yet they instead pick and choose who to persecute. Set realistic speed limits (ie: far faster than those already set), and enforce 100% (since that is easily possible now), or have no speed limits at all.

I'm serious, too, drift over the limit by 1 kph, and a ticker starts depleting your bank account, and takes points off your license. People will lose their minds (since everyone speeds), and they will have to raise speed limits.

PS--they should cite anyone going below some minimum speed on highways, as well.

Edited December 25, 2018 by tater

[AeroGav]

4 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

But one thing is bothering me what about overtaking if your child was going to overtake some stupid slob who driving 60 km/h on 100 km/h highway and he would not have enough power to perform manoeuvre? Or escaping some madman? 
So I think that speed governor should be integrated with obstacle avoidance system and have some safety override built in, the parent or vehicle owner would know that driver used it? and can ask why it was used and does it was justified

When I was younger I had a job delivering Pizza on mopeds that were restricted to 30 mph.     Also when I was young,   I drove a lot of very underpowered cars (could not afford anything better, could not get insurance for anything better, parents would not trust me with their powerful car).

I think so long as you know what the car will do,  you can make a safe decision about whether to overtake or not.   

The closest I came to an accident was when overtaking in this turbo diesel car which would accelerate very strongly at first, then the power would rapidly tail off above 2500rpm - you'd start the manoeuvre thinking you'd do it easily, then the power would die off just as you were too far into the overtake to abort.

Eventually I got to know the car and to simply not attempt overtakes on single lane roads with a speed limit over 40 mph.

I suppose you don't want your auto speed limiter suddenly reducing your car's top speed mid overtake because it thinks you've moved from a 70mph zone to a 50 limit.

Still,  I don't think accident statistics back up the idea that "power is a safety feature, it lets you overtake more safely",  it just makes people take even more risks.  If we're honest, the real reason we like power is because it's fun.

I'd be happy with a hard 75mph limit, provided the car had some kind of  "Head Up Display" (HUD) tech   to visualise how much room you need to complete an overtake based on the speed of the car in front and whatever the limiter is set to,  so you can decide whether to overtake or just chill.

[Pawelk198604]

12 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

 

Still,  I don't think accident statistics back up the idea that "power is a safety feature, it lets you overtake more safely",  it just makes people take even more risks.  If we're honest, the real reason we like power is because it's fun.

I'd be happy with a hard 75mph limit, provided the car had some kind of  "Head Up Display" (HUD) tech   to visualise how much room you need to complete an overtake based on the speed of the car in front and whatever the limiter is set to,  so you can decide whether to overtake or just chill.

1

That i means  yummy
Like in your beloved KSP especially  with a new update that shows us delta-V so wh knew that we not strand poor kerbal on orbit :-)

And security override for speed governor, to make the driver be able to temporarily shut it down if, and car have TCAS like feature interlocked with speed governor, and if driver use overrides it would be saved in a black box like thing in the car. 

 

The only thing i ever envied Americans that they can drive as young as 15, and they have such easy access to gun, i'm mostly interested in hunting gun not small ones.

 

In Europe especially Poland to be the driver you need go to transport medicine MD, that gives you papers that enables you to start dring course, it can be a pain in asses if someone had ADHD or ASPEGER ( i not have ADHD but has Asperger) in such case you need to deal with a shrink, i to make you psychometric test  like those one  

I would probably find some good-hearted psychologist and pay him or her to pass me or buy them bottle of 40 years old Jack Daniels or good old wine  

Because I would not want to waste my valuable time on  it, or count on good humor of some shrinks  

[Vanamonde]

Some editing has been done in this thread. 

As always, the KSP forum and its owners and operators do not recommend or condone circumventing the law. In fact, recommend and condone doing the opposite of breaking the law. Please stop talking about that kind of thing on our forum. 

[AeroGav]

2 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

That i means  yummy
Like in your beloved KSP especially  with a new update that shows us delta-V so wh knew that we not strand poor kerbal on orbit :-)

And security override for speed governor, to make the driver be able to temporarily shut it down if, and car have TCAS like feature interlocked with speed governor, and if driver use overrides it would be saved in a black box like thing in the car. 

 

The only thing i ever envied Americans that they can drive as young as 15, and they have such easy access to gun, i'm mostly interested in hunting gun not small ones.

 

In Europe especially Poland to be the driver you need go to transport medicine MD, that gives you papers that enables you to start dring course, it can be a pain in asses if someone had ADHD or ASPEGER ( i not have ADHD but has Asperger) in such case you need to deal with a shrink, i to make you psychometric test  like those one  

 

I would probably find some good-hearted psychologist and pay him or her to pass me or buy them bottle of 40 years old Jack Daniels or good old wine  

Because I would not want to waste my valuable time on  it, or count on good humor of some shrinks  

It's a mystery to me how in the UK,  (similar to Poland,  I expect)  young drivers are regarded as a menace,  if you're under 27 you'll be paying over £2000 a year for insurance on a 10 year old car with 65HP.     I took my driving test at 17 but couldn't afford a car or the insurance till i was 27.     Yet in America,  you can drive a small block Chevy at 16 with God knows how much HP ..    how are the roads not littered with dead teenagers?

When I was at college,  no-one had a car, for these reasons.  Then,  one  of my classmates was able to borrow his Dad's car for the day...     no-one the class ever gets to ride in a car that doesn't have their Parents in it..   so immediately  all the other lads jump into the passenger seats and start asking him to do stunts...       Wheelspin ! Handbrake turns ! 

I suppose the reason insurance companies try to price young drivers off the road is because sometimes these stunts go wrong.    What if he does a handbrake turn,  hits a curb and rolls the car ?  No-one was wearing a seatbelt... now 4 teenagers will have disabilities for the rest of their lives.. the driver's insurer has to pay out millions in compensation.

Back to the overtaking question...

In the UK  single lane roads have speed limits of 50 or 60mph.    The motorway speed limit is 70mph.   Honestly,   I don't like going 10-15mph faster than the car i am overtaking anyway.   If I need that much speed, the gap must have been too small.    Before I overtook,   my view of the road in front of the slow car was obstructed by it,   if you accelerate to 90mph to go past a car doing 50mph,  you might suddenly discover a hazard in front of that slow car  once you're past him and now you are going too quick to stop. 

I'm surprised your medical condition is an obstacle to driving.  I've known ADHD sufferers who drive.     In the UK, so long as you pass the theory test and practical test, and aren't on medication that affects your driving, you would get a licence.   The theory test is quite tough now though,   there is a hazard perception test, where they show video footage from a car and you have to press a button to identify the risky situations.        Like i say though, over here getting the licence is the easy  bit...

[Pawelk198604]

Thanks @Vanamonde Sorry :-( 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Pawelk198604

[Gargamel]

There is also a great hazard caused by cars traveling less than the flow of the surrounding traffic.   It creates a bottle neck in the traffic flow and can catch some drivers unaware, as other try to maneuver around the rolling obstruction.    I'd be ok with limiters on younger drivers' cars, as long as they weren't allowed on roads that were more than the limiters' setting. 

[YNM]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

There is also a great hazard caused by cars traveling less than the flow of the surrounding traffic. 

Welcome to Germany... where the cars all whizz pass through trucks going 50 mph, at 100 mph !

 

As I say, it's all to do with common sense. If you know damn well you can't do it, then don't.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

8 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Yet in America,  you can drive a small block Chevy at 16 with God knows how much HP ..    how are the roads not littered with dead teenagers?

Coyotes...

 

[tater]

It’s 15 here in NM.

[GDJ]

10 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

  Hide contents

Coyotes...

 

Honey Badgers and Wolverines too up here. 

  

Edited December 26, 2018 by GDJ

[GluttonyReaper]

22 hours ago, AeroGav said:

I suppose the reason insurance companies try to price young drivers off the road is because sometimes these stunts go wrong. 

I hate to be cynical, but I suspect the reason isn't as moral as that. Motorbike insurance is much cheaper, at least in the UK (I was paying £500 a year when I was 17, even without a full license), and statistically bikes are tens of times more likely to be in an accident.

Back to the question, I don't think speed is the only problem with driving. Lack of awareness and experience is a problem that is equally dangerous - being able to understand what's going on on the road is pretty important. I would argue full self-driving capability would reduce accident chance significantly, but even then at least knowing how to drive feels necessary as a safeguard if the technology fails.

[AeroGav]

16 minutes ago, GluttonyReaper said:

I hate to be cynical, but I suspect the reason isn't as moral as that. Motorbike insurance is much cheaper, at least in the UK (I was paying £500 a year when I was 17, even without a full license), and statistically bikes are tens of times more likely to be in an accident.

Back to the question, I don't think speed is the only problem with driving. Lack of awareness and experience is a problem that is equally dangerous - being able to understand what's going on on the road is pretty important. I would argue full self-driving capability would reduce accident chance significantly, but even then at least knowing how to drive feels necessary as a safeguard if the technology fails.

UK has a lower accident rate than just about any other country in the world - it's safer to be a driver here than in US,  Germany etc by a factor of two or more.

However, the accident rate among young male drivers has been slow to fall, despite introducing a large theory component to the driving test with "hazard perception" test videos.    However,  I read the real problem with young male drivers was once they got their mates in the car with them ...   one up,  they were fairly safe.

There was suggestions of banning new drivers from carrying other young people as passengers.

However, I heard that these "telematics" black boxes,  that spy on your driving and report G forces and speeds to your insurance company in real time,  have had a dramatic effect on these young drivers (they've had less effect on older ones)

What I suspect is happening, is that it allows the driver to resist peer group pressure to do stunts when his mates are in the car.    In my day, refusing to do any of that stuff would have them thinking you are too boring, too chicken, or too unskilled to try a bit of racing or drifting.   Young people understand money however,  they don't have enough of it and they want to spend it on clothes, music and beer.   You can just point to the black box and say "rather spend my money on beer, sorry"  and your friends will get that.

One reason I heard for UK's  high insurance premiums is due to the way injury compensation for passengers of vehicles in a collision is paid by the insurance company.   In the USA I think the medical insurance system  or state ends up picking up the tab.

[Ultimate Steve]

On 12/25/2018 at 1:16 PM, tater said:

PS--they should cite anyone going below some minimum speed on highways, as well.

They'd need a way to differentiate between someone going annoyingly slow, and a valid reason to be going slow on highways (traffic backup, in an accident and stopped, you're the only one on the road and it's snowing a lot, etc.)

[mikegarrison]

The reason young males are dangerous drivers basically boils down to psychology. Their brains are hardwired to make them amazingly overconfident at everything. "Young Male Immortality Syndrome". It's why you find them underneath avalanches, at the bottom of cliffs, in car wrecks, stabbed and shot after getting into fights, and in the hospital waking up with the last thing they remember telling their friends, "Hey, watch this!"

I spent about 10 years teaching performance driving on race tracks, and the scariest students were always the young guys who didn't know crap about performance driving but had fast cars and were convinced they were the best drivers in the world. Usually, however, they finally managed to scare themselves and also notice that actual good drivers were driving faster than they were even in cars that were a lot less powerful. Then sometimes they turned into really good students, because they started to actually listen to their instructors and weren't afraid to try what the instructors were telling them to try. But always you had to be careful and remember that they were overestimating their skill and not noticing their close calls when they made mistakes.

Every young male with a sporty car firmly believes he is an exception to this, and that he and he alone has amazing inborn driving skill that makes him exempt from over-estimating his marvelous talent.

Edited December 27, 2018 by mikegarrison

[Kerbart]

On 12/25/2018 at 5:23 PM, AeroGav said:

It's a mystery to me how in the UK,  (similar to Poland,  I expect)  young drivers are regarded as a menace,  if you're under 27 you'll be paying over £2000 a year for insurance on a 10 year old car with 65HP.     I took my driving test at 17 but couldn't afford a car or the insurance till i was 27.     Yet in America,  you can drive a small block Chevy at 16 with God knows how much HP ..    how are the roads not littered with dead teenagers?

What makes you think they are not? Along industrialized countries, the US has the highest death rate in traffic, and teenager age group forms the largest statistic within that. Weak enforcement of traffic laws, laughable testing of driving skills and a general attitude where problems are always the fault of someone else* do contribute as well, of course.

To get back to the OP: BMW loved advertising in the 70s and 80s with claims that all that horsepower was a “safety feature” just for the case lined out. I always smelled the bull manure coming off the pages when I saw those advertisements. Personally, I think that most situations where extra speed is needed to get out of an unsafe situation is caused by grave judgement errors (some might say “reckless driving”). If you're on a 2-lane road and your car is limited to 50kmh and the truck in front of you is doing 48... don't pass. It's not safe.

 

* My “favorite” case is the family of a high school graduate who was drunk, and speeding. He ran his car off the road and got launched through the windshield when it flipped over (because, of course, he wasn't wearing a seatbelt) and died. His parent sued Ford, because the roof had collapsed (as the car violently flipped over), and if he had worn his seatbelt he would have been killed because of that.

[Pawelk198604]

20 hours ago, AeroGav said:

UK has a lower accident rate than just about any other country in the world - it's safer to be a driver here than in US,  Germany etc by a factor of two or more.

However, the accident rate among young male drivers has been slow to fall, despite introducing a large theory component to the driving test with "hazard perception" test videos.    However,  I read the real problem with young male drivers was once they got their mates in the car with them ...   one up,  they were fairly safe.

There was suggestions of banning new drivers from carrying other young people as passengers.

However, I heard that these "telematics" black boxes,  that spy on your driving and report G forces and speeds to your insurance company in real time,  have had a dramatic effect on these young drivers (they've had less effect on older ones)

What I suspect is happening, is that it allows the driver to resist peer group pressure to do stunts when his mates are in the car.    In my day, refusing to do any of that stuff would have them thinking you are too boring, too chicken, or too unskilled to try a bit of racing or drifting.   Young people understand money however,  they don't have enough of it and they want to spend it on clothes, music and beer.   You can just point to the black box and say "rather spend my money on beer, sorry"  and your friends will get that.

One reason I heard for UK's  high insurance premiums is due to the way injury compensation for passengers of vehicles in a collision is paid by the insurance company.   In the USA I think the medical insurance system  or state ends up picking up the tab.

what telemetric black boxes? It some kind of absurd!!!  

 

It's a sound bit too Orwellian to me! 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Pawelk198604

[magnemoe]

On 12/25/2018 at 11:23 PM, AeroGav said:

It's a mystery to me how in the UK,  (similar to Poland,  I expect)  young drivers are regarded as a menace,  if you're under 27 you'll be paying over £2000 a year for insurance on a 10 year old car with 65HP.     I took my driving test at 17 but couldn't afford a car or the insurance till i was 27.     Yet in America,  you can drive a small block Chevy at 16 with God knows how much HP ..    how are the roads not littered with dead teenagers?

When I was at college,  no-one had a car, for these reasons.  Then,  one  of my classmates was able to borrow his Dad's car for the day...     no-one the class ever gets to ride in a car that doesn't have their Parents in it..   so immediately  all the other lads jump into the passenger seats and start asking him to do stunts...       Wheelspin ! Handbrake turns ! 

I suppose the reason insurance companies try to price young drivers off the road is because sometimes these stunts go wrong.    What if he does a handbrake turn,  hits a curb and rolls the car ?  No-one was wearing a seatbelt... now 4 teenagers will have disabilities for the rest of their lives.. the driver's insurer has to pay out millions in compensation.

Back to the overtaking question...

In the UK  single lane roads have speed limits of 50 or 60mph.    The motorway speed limit is 70mph.   Honestly,   I don't like going 10-15mph faster than the car i am overtaking anyway.   If I need that much speed, the gap must have been too small.    Before I overtook,   my view of the road in front of the slow car was obstructed by it,   if you accelerate to 90mph to go past a car doing 50mph,  you might suddenly discover a hazard in front of that slow car  once you're past him and now you are going too quick to stop. 

I'm surprised your medical condition is an obstacle to driving.  I've known ADHD sufferers who drive.     In the UK, so long as you pass the theory test and practical test, and aren't on medication that affects your driving, you would get a licence.   The theory test is quite tough now though,   there is a hazard perception test, where they show video footage from a car and you have to press a button to identify the risky situations.        Like i say though, over here getting the licence is the easy  bit...

Main issue with young drivers is not that they do stupid stuff but lack of experience and lack of hard wired reflexes then stuff happens.  So they don't know then roads get icy and don't know that to do then they drift. Note that this also applies to others like widows there the husband always drove but main group is young. 
And you want an old beaten up car as your first as you are likely to wreck it. Much of the same issue with insurance in Norway but way lower and you want the car registered on somebody else and you want an junk car so you only have the legal insurance so its only an issue if you hit someone. 

[mikegarrison]

6 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

what telemetric black boxes? It some kind of absurd!!!  

 

It's a sound bit too Orwellian to me! 

It is true. To save a few bucks on their insurance rates, some people are willing to put a black box into their car that lets the insurance company know where the car goes and how fast it goes. They bill it as a "safe driver discount".

[kerbiloid]

If the black boxes are widely used in trucks, why not put them everywhere.

Any automated traffic control anyway requires this.

[YNM]

14 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

what telemetric black boxes? It some kind of absurd!!!  

 

It's a sound bit too Orwellian to me! 

Well, it's coming to you anyway, along with continuous speed camera coverage (I can only imagine doubles as backup surveillance camera if they fail).

12 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Main issue with young drivers is not that they do stupid stuff but lack of experience and lack of hard wired reflexes then stuff happens.

Yeah... although on the other end you got the demented on the road.

On 12/27/2018 at 3:45 AM, GluttonyReaper said:

Motorbike insurance is much cheaper, at least in the UK (I was paying £500 a year when I was 17, even without a full license), and statistically bikes are tens of times more likely to be in an accident.

I'm not sure but I suppose it's also out of the fact that you'd be more likely to kill yourself than others, unlike a few tonnes of metal capsule going down the road.

On 12/27/2018 at 6:03 AM, Ultimate Steve said:

They'd need a way to differentiate between someone going annoyingly slow, and a valid reason to be going slow on highways

There is - it's called sticking to the outer lanes of the road when not overtaking. Lane hogging is bad, regardless of if you're going quickly or slowly. (unless you're overtaking continuously.)

Though where I live the outer lanes are usually so bad thanks to large trucks... even the trucks themselves will move in the inside lane ! (until that one is destroyed as well)

Edited December 28, 2018 by YNM