[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93

[_Zee]

Version 1.3 released
 

//// Version 1.3 Changes

*Added Universal Storage 2 support.
General rule of thumb is if the US2 part is some improved version of an already existing part, it appears one node later than that original part.
US2 Part costs were also heavily rebalanced, they were frequently way too cheap.
First pass on vanilla ladders.
First pass on vanilla decouplers.
First pass on Making History decouplers and engine plates.
First pass on vanilla docking ports.
First pass on Making History docking port.
Submitted mod for inclusion on CKAN.

Universal Storage 2 now has full support! All original US2 parts and parts directly altered by US2 belonging to other mods (mostly Life Support stuff) have received a full pass. In addition to this, several vanilla structural and utility parts have now been covered as well.

This is save game compatible.
To update just overwrite my entire folder. UNLESS you are still using a version prior to 1.21, in that case you must delete my folder entirely and copy 1.3 over fresh.

[Walker]

Really thanks for not giving this "All rights reserved" license

Are there any chances for changes in science being optional? I'd love to play with unmanned first, but I like to set my own science rules...

 

[_Zee]

1 hour ago, Walker said:

Really thanks for not giving this "All rights reserved" license

Are there any chances for changes in science being optional? I'd love to play with unmanned first, but I like to set my own science rules...

 

Sorry, but I'll have to decline this request. I've learned from experience that maintaining multiple versions of a mod quickly gets out of hand as it grows and is one of the fastest ways to get burned out.
All my balance choices are centered around my science changes and vice versa, but you have some choices!

1) Give the mod as it is a shot. If it feels too slow or too fast, KSP's built in Science Multiplier slider is a perfect, quick and easy fix.
2) Go through my mod files and remove all the @EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION: entries.
3) If you're not alone in feeling this way, you might get lucky and someone might release a submod. Or you could make one yourself and share it for others to enjoy! 
 

[Walker]

@_Zee

I'm going to try out your tips, thanks! Also, how about Missing History support? It's great addon for Making History

[jpkerman]

Kerbalism would be a good add to the tree.  It has a few supporting parts but the rest is mostly features added to parts.

Edited January 2, 2019 by jpkerman

[_Zee]

10 hours ago, Walker said:

@_Zee

I'm going to try out your tips, thanks! Also, how about Missing History support? It's great addon for Making History

 

1 hour ago, jpkerman said:

Kerbalism would be a good add to the tree.  It has a few supporting parts but the rest is mostly features added to parts.

And the To Do List grows ever larger... 
 

[Beetlecat]

27 minutes ago, _Zee said:

And the To Do List grows ever larger... 

Heh!

CTT patches that people have made for Missing/Making history, etc. to plug into UBM might just work perfectly well with PBC. Sounding rockets is another one that I'd love to see as well. I'll see how some patches I've been using may work with you design and send them your way.

As you can see, there's certainly a bunch of interest in a well built/curated/maintained Unmanned-first tree.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Beetlecat

[razark]

17 minutes ago, _Zee said:

And the To Do List grows ever larger...

Well, as long as you're updating anyway, I'd like all of my favorite mods supported, too!

 

On a serious note, though: This looks cool.  I'll have to give it a try at some point.

[lordcirth]

The Goo Canister is in the Start node, but you don't get parachutes to return it with until Survivability. UbM added a telemetry experiment to all probe cores to boost the science you get from early sounding rockets, to make up for moving Goo later. Also, there are a couple of mods that add 0.625m rocket parts; one of these should probably be picked as a Recommended mod.

[Pand5461]

On 1/2/2019 at 2:55 AM, _Zee said:

I'm not sure which probe functions you mean?

I mean, add SAS capacity to the crew capsules' ModuleControl and remove the min crew requirements for the control at higher tech tiers.

[_Zee]

5 hours ago, lordcirth said:

The Goo Canister is in the Start node, but you don't get parachutes to return it with until Survivability. UbM added a telemetry experiment to all probe cores to boost the science you get from early sounding rockets, to make up for moving Goo later. Also, there are a couple of mods that add 0.625m rocket parts; one of these should probably be picked as a Recommended mod.

This is intentional. You have the choice of transmitting what you can or bee-lining for chutes. First chute is T3 so you'll only need to sacrifice a few SRB's in the name of science, as is tradition.
UbM's telemetry function was indeed a cool one, I was personally a fan. But it was also a pretty original idea as far as I'm aware, and adding it to my mod seems a bit like grabbing a stick and poking a bear named "All Rights Reserved".
A 0.6m rocket part mod will definitely get its turn though, eventually^TM.

 

32 minutes ago, Pand5461 said:

I mean, add SAS capacity to the crew capsules' ModuleControl and remove the min crew requirements for the control at higher tech tiers.

Basic SAS is a possibility, but probably no more than that. I'd like pilots to stay relevant. I'll keep this in mind as my updates get closer to the back-end of the tech tree. Thanks for suggesting it!
 

[BlackHat]

4 hours ago, _Zee said:

UbM's telemetry function was indeed a cool one, I was personally a fan. But it was also a pretty original idea as far as I'm aware, and adding it to my mod seems a bit like grabbing a stick and poking a bear named "All Rights Reserved".

Hmm, Actually I think the Telemetry Reports/Probe Reports has been around for quite awhile.

I remember Lord Aurelius had a mod I used before that added Probe Reports (later Called Telemetry Reports) that added a Science Experiment to all Probe Cores (Just like Crew Reports for manned Capsules)

I remember using this back in .90 

Now I dont know which came first. SST, or UbM. 

But if I recall right, SST was just simple MM configs to add the Probe reports. And has a permissive licence as I read it.

EDIT: the OP does mention "Starwaster" as a reference for the Probe Report configs, so maybe he made something before Lord Aurelius

Edited January 3, 2019 by BlackHat

[_Zee]

2 hours ago, BlackHat said:

Hmm, Actually I think the Telemetry Reports/Probe Reports has been around for quite awhile.

/snip

Well THAT is very interesting. Thanks for pointing this out, after I release the next update I'll look into this some more. Based on what you've already shared though this seems like an idea that belongs to public domain, looks promising.

[jpkerman]

Tested this with RealChute.  It places a chute in the start node but the others are not too badly aligned to the stock chutes.  Tested with Mechjeb (popular with a lot of players despite the eternal debate) and MechjebForAll.  With command pods pushed higher in the tier, my opinion is that it expands probe ability but since the Mechjeb functions unlock as nodes are researched it seems to me it does not grant too much too early.

[_Zee]

Version 1.4 released

//// Version 1.4 Changes

*Added kOS Support.
*Added TAC-LS Support.
*Added SCANsat Support.
Moved vanilla cupola one node later.
Corrected entry and part costs for vanilla CMs.
Corrected entry and part cost for RC-LO1 (largest probe core).

So I deviated from my plan a bit and decided some form of Life-Support.. uhm, support, was more important to get out first.
So until I cover Kerbalism and/or USI which will both probably take an eternity, TAC-LS is now fully and properly valued, ordered, and updated!

SCANsat actually required literally zero changes on my part. All 4 scanners were already in the exact nodes I wanted to place them in with perfect entry and VAB costs, even though SCANsat doesn't require the CTT, which is both crazy awesome and crazy weird. The patch is simply there to secure "unknowns" into "known", in case SCANsat ever makes any changes in the future.
@DMagic really knows what s/he is doing when it comes to modding KSP, but you all already knew that.


This update is savegame compatible, just overwrite the entire ProbesBeforeCrew folder.
 

Edited January 3, 2019 by _Zee

[Shizen]

yay

waiting for remote tech support to give this a whirl

[lordcirth]

7 hours ago, _Zee said:

Well THAT is very interesting. Thanks for pointing this out, after I release the next update I'll look into this some more. Based on what you've already shared though this seems like an idea that belongs to public domain, looks promising.

I implemented a similar thing for my mod, feel free to grab it:

https://github.com/lordcirth/CTTUnmannedStart/blob/master/GameData/CTTUnmannedStart/MM_Telemetry.cfg

Edited January 4, 2019 by lordcirth

[BlackHat]

Well Frack.  This is beginning to look real interesting.... I may have to restart my 1.5.1 Career game over so I can do this mod. (Although I have not really progressed to far, (Using KCT, I have just reached a manned orbit of the Mun)

[GrayTech]

Looks interesting. @_Zee if you are going to move mk1pod_v2 shouldn't you also move mk1pod, which will be available in the advanced mode at start?

Edited January 4, 2019 by GrayTech

[_Zee]

8 hours ago, BlackHat said:

Well Frack.  This is beginning to look real interesting.... I may have to restart my 1.5.1 Career game over so I can do this mod. (Although I have not really progressed to far, (Using KCT, I have just reached a manned orbit of the Mun)

 

5 hours ago, GrayTech said:

Looks interesting. @_Zee if you are going to move mk1pod_v2 shouldn't you also move mk1pod, which will be available in the advanced mode at start?

My mod won't work in versions prior to 1.6, as you pointed out the deprecated parts won't be properly sorted. The mk1pod is a deprecated part so it doesn't have any configs in my mod.

[Rime Pendragon]

Glad to see you're considering support for USI , it's my favourite mod :-)

[Cristy2017]

Downloading! Looks promising 

[Jesse-Lacey]

ProbesPlus! seems to integrate itself pretty well with this addon. Also Bluedog Design Bureau has a lot of parts that would work really well, but its capsules are on the wrong nodes. There is some overlap with making history and BDB but I love the science experiments from it. Geiger counter is life. Otherwise it seems pretty interesting. Taking me awhile to get to the good science nodes.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Jesse-Lacey
Spellcheck

[GerAseR]

Oh man, tough evening to get it to work, dont know if it was another mod or just the cloud sync from gog.com who breaks it, will test it now but:
Thanks for your work! Tested it this morning for couple of hours (based in Europe) and it is what it is and that was what i was looking for!
At the early stage it feels kinda wrong "when you have to destroy the probe" because there are no chutes available and you have to send everything.
I would prefer to have a chute before the batterie, and the batterie later with the second module, same with Goo and Pressure sensors.
It would be more "realistic" to have a chute and Pressure Sensors to recover the vessel after the first atmospheric tests, than Goo Containers i cant recover without a Chute.


Will test it again in a few hours an come back to that point with names and Tiers to make it more clear
(just bought KSP again on Christmas, last time i played it was before "Beta than ever" came out, sorry for the gibberish / wrong terms instead of right names and tiers)

Edit: 
Ok, it seemed to be the Cloud Sync Function, everything works great after another testing.
I would like to see something like "Probe Reports", sounds interesting. 
Only thing would like you to think about ist to change Goo with Barometer, and add probe reports for the lack of Science cause of the higher Tier of the Goo then.
And a Chute for the Start, it will create a more Stock feeling not to see the "you loveed up screen".
If you really want "sacrifice in the name of science" ,  thanks to @jpkerman, i will go with real chutes and (kinda sadly) destroy your created out of the box feeling... otherwise.... hehe... there is a contract pack out there which wants us to crash a probe, crash on target... so... i will leave RealChutes aside and  take a look at the Spacetux contract package to follow your spirit. Anyways: Thank you very much for your time and work! @_Zee

There is a similar Mod that moved the Barometer in Tier One and the Goo (with Chute) at Tier 3... That one i followed before you came around one day before @SpinkAkron, so it seems i am "wrong with a Chute at start". 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by GerAseR

[_Zee]

 

22 hours ago, Jesse-Lacey said:

/snip
Taking me awhile to get to the good science nodes.

 

17 hours ago, GerAseR said:

/snip
for the lack of Science [...]

Just out of curiosity, what are your Science sliders set to?

Edited January 6, 2019 by _Zee