'Io' movie (2019) - with extra epic wrong science

Kerbart · January 19, 2019

Ironically, no fact checking took place to see what the movie was about. Just some assumptions based on the interpretation of a trailer.

Yes, the movie is bad, and yes, science as usual takes a back ride. But it's not nearly as bad as it's made out to be:

The balloon is—shockingly—not used to fly to Io.
Io is indeed depicted as a tiny moon full of volcanoes. Apparently those are feeding a power station (I do not deny the questionability of that) so the decision was made to convert the power station to a temporary colony (I guess because a lot of the required infrastructure was already there)
The element of urgency is introduced by the story element of a much better alternative being discovered, and all resources are now spent towards launching a ship towards that; time's running out to make on board to a ship to Io.

Io was probably picked as a metaphor: after humanity poisoned Earth, it's forced to retreat to one of the most inhospitable places in the solar system.

Again, I'm not saying it's a good movie; far from that. However, it's ironic that criticism on the movie makers about fact-checking is largely based on the same perceived sin - just making some assumptions without checking what is actually true. And it's totally uncessary as the movie leaves plenty of reality-bashing scenes available for the hordes:

a 10" ground based telescope providing better imagery of Jupiter than Hubble ever can give us
Ammonium detection with flames got the colors wrong and the need for it
The balloon. Oh, don't get me started on the balloon...

There's plenty to bash. But the movie suggests that the makers are perfectly aware that Io is a nasty place full of volcanoes (it's a plot aspect), and nowhere in the movie is the suggestion made that a balloon is used to fly to it.

kerbiloid · January 19, 2019

(Catching the banner of the movie scientific reabilitation.)

I don't know, maybe a translation bug, but they say that the expedition to Proxima will take ten years.

So, they have enough fuel and energy for an interstellar ~~balloon~~ starship.
And the starship itself.

Looks like Io had been chosen by intention.
Looks like it's a shipyard, also collecting the fusion fuel for this ship from the Jupiter atmosphere, maybe antimatter (like in KSPI-E) and electromagnetic power from the radiation belt, and so on.
Maybe they also use the tidal/geothermal power for the shipyard own needs.

All three work best on Io.
It's close to Jupiter (so the fusion fuel and tidal power), it's inside the radiation belt (so, antimatter and pure energy).
And it's far from Earth and the people's eyes.

So, looks like the movie is not that simple&stupid like it tries to seem.

Spoiler

I've here omitted my very first thought at all - that "Io" is not the Jup/Io, but an absolutely another planet in a secret location, classified under callsign like, say "Io-25".

(Inspired by M.Kharitonov's "F...up", unhappily not translated into English. A great fanfic of Strugatski Bros'.
Venus of 1960s sci-fi having nothing common with real world Venus is explained as a classified "Venus-17" in another star system)

Edited January 19, 2019 by kerbiloid

Kernel Kraken · January 19, 2019

On 1/15/2019 at 2:48 PM, Spaceception said:

What I'd really like to see in these movies where we need to leave Earth, is if they just go to the Moon, and begin the cleanup process of Earth while making sure the remaining populace isn't faced with immediately dying. Craft the plot around people who want to return Earth to its previous state and rebuild, and people who are pulling the strings behind the scenes to put them on top once finished. Or something like that.

Wall•E

On 1/17/2019 at 12:36 PM, Spaceception said:

As much as I may agree with the first part, leave that music alone (You would probably hate my writing music playlist)

Wait, your writing playlist is suspenseful orchestral fortissimo movie trailer music? That actually sounds really productive. Link?

Kernel Kraken · January 19, 2019

On 1/18/2019 at 2:14 PM, SnakyLeVrai said:

"Let's go to Io!"

"Why?"

"Because geothermal energy is cool!"

"yaaaayyyyyy!!!"

feels like a Don Hertzfeldt animation...

And they don't even gravity turn when the rockets blast off. That's an awesome tech they got here.

I mean come on. To settle on Io, or in orbit of Io even, you'll need to sustain mankind over there. To stay for good. For dramatization's sake, let's just say they Earth got so toxic only a fraction of the population survived. Let's say only 100,000 people survived (that's 1 in 70,000, quite the drama huh?). How do you sustain this amount of people in a hostile environment where :

thanks to @Gapone doing the homework I was too lazy to do , we know we have the least amount of water in the solar system there,

we can't grow anything in the ground - my sources tell me it's even harder to have vegetables grow spontaneously out of VACUUM, unless you wait 10^10,000 years and expect for something to happen out of quantum fluctuations,

we have no atmosphere outside so we need reinforced hulls to hold the pressure in, pressure that pushes tons against the walls,

nor do we have a credible ballistic protection against projectiles hurled around screaming, by the biggest slingshot around, save from the Sun itself,

did I mention RADIATIONS?

There's no safe place to be, only hazards everywhere, that we don't have on Earth. So, we need some sort of super advanced tech to thrive in such a bad place.

Soooo... why not use some of that tech and build a nice mansion with an airlock, decontamination shower, and stay safe from micrometeorites, asteroids, radiations, volcanos, tidal quakes, the vacuum of space, low sunlight due to distance from the sun... Or build a Zen cabin in the Himalayas?

Why do everything we can to put ourselves in more danger than need be? how is it possible that all those epic rocket scientists and biologists and whatnot developped some epic tech, to enable mankind to live in hell like it's a vacation, but none thought about cleaning the darn lawn?

Feels like: oh, the bog is clogged and it's starting to smell. Let's abandon house and live in the Gobi desert.

Mind blown.

More lIke: " our water got shut off so we're going to live in a houseboat on a boiling Yellowstone pond"

Spaceception · January 20, 2019

1 hour ago, Kernel Kraken said:

Wait, your writing playlist is suspenseful orchestral fortissimo movie trailer music? That actually sounds really productive. Link?

A lot of it, yeah.

The first song is probably my favorite in the list.

DAL59 · January 20, 2019

23 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

(Catching the banner of the movie scientific reabilitation.)

I don't know, maybe a translation bug, but they say that the expedition to Proxima will take ten years.

So, they have enough fuel and energy for an interstellar ~~balloon~~ starship.
And the starship itself.

Looks like Io had been chosen by intention.
Looks like it's a shipyard, also collecting the fusion fuel for this ship from the Jupiter atmosphere, maybe antimatter (like in KSPI-E) and electromagnetic power from the radiation belt, and so on.
Maybe they also use the tidal/geothermal power for the shipyard own needs.

All three work best on Io.
It's close to Jupiter (so the fusion fuel and tidal power), it's inside the radiation belt (so, antimatter and pure energy).
And it's far from Earth and the people's eyes.

So, looks like the movie is not that simple&stupid like it tries to seem.

Reveal hidden contents

I've here omitted my very first thought at all - that "Io" is not the Jup/Io, but an absolutely another planet in a secret location, classified under callsign like, say "Io-25".

(Inspired by M.Kharitonov's "F...up", unhappily not translated into English. A great fanfic of Strugatski Bros'.
Venus of 1960s sci-fi having nothing common with real world Venus is explained as a classified "Venus-17" in another star system)

WAIT ONE SECOND

EARTH IS DESTROYED SO THEY GO TO IO TO COLLECT ANTIMATTER FOR A STARSHIP?

THIS IS JUST THE PLOT OF ARK BY STEPHEN BAXTER

kerbiloid · January 21, 2019

10 hours ago, DAL59 said:

EARTH IS DESTROYED SO THEY GO TO IO TO COLLECT ANTIMATTER FOR A STARSHIP?

There is nothing said about the antimatter, but
they build a starship there,
Io is inside a radiation belt
in KSPI-E we would be collecting both antimatter and fusion propellant right around the Io

So...

P.S.
A poisoned Earth is definitely the best place to herd bees, like Io is the best place for a human colony...

Edited January 21, 2019 by kerbiloid

Superfluous J · January 21, 2019

So has anybody here actually watched it yet? I won't but someone I know who did said it was slow and boring and the science was meh, and fell apart at the end so there'd be a happy ending.

Edited January 21, 2019 by 5thHorseman

kerbiloid · January 21, 2019

I did, the first half of it.
The second part - by rewinding, but will do once being coding today.

Klapaucius · January 21, 2019

I think one of the writers for this film is a member of this KSP forum and thought, rubbing his or her hands together in a gleeful yet maniacal manner: Oooo, how can I wind them up????

Edited January 21, 2019 by Klapaucius

kerbiloid · January 21, 2019

So, the movie is full of secrets.

Btw, location.
The radio says that while the Exodus-127 ship is delayed by weather, they should go to Exodus-134 instead. And gives its coordinates: lat. 49.5466°, long. 16.4059°. (if the translation hadn't misheard it)
I took a look, the only land at 49.5466/16.4059 is Czech Republic, near Brno (others combinations are in the oceans).
And they have 26^h12^m to do that.
They spend night, and loose several hours in evening and in morning, so probably they are in several hours of the balloon flight at the wind speed from this ship.
I.e. unless the translation corrupted the coordiates, they are somewhere in the Czech mountains.

Spoiler

Wow. Never noticed before that Praha is right in the center of some circular structure looking like a crater, with the roads running radially to the edge.

The girl says that in the past the bees were pollinating the plants in her greenhouse, but now they have to do this manually.
Then how do they get the honey in the shown honeycombs if the bees are gone, and even a single suddenly found queen looks sensational for them?
Who/what is creating that "honey", and/or what is this substance actually?

A big globe of Jupiter in the lab. What's the purpose of the globe of a gas giant with no stable geography?

(a spoiler warning)

Spoiler

No happy end, at least for the girl.

KerikBalm · January 21, 2019

On 1/17/2019 at 5:48 PM, p1t1o said:

Honestly I think the same thing about movies about the Moon or Mars.

Well, if they are going there to escape a climate catastrophy on Earth... sure, its dumb. If its just an exploration mission (such as "The Martian"), then its fine

On 1/19/2019 at 12:39 AM, DDE said:

Worse yet, since it's borderline "cli-fi" (that's apparently a thing), the ability to survive the ecological collapse on Earth gets in the way of the basic premise: anthropogenic degradation of the entire biosphere being an unrevivable doomsday scenario.

There was also that atrocious scientology-Tom Cruise movie, Obvlivion... The audience and main character are actually meant to believe that Earth won a war against aliens, but the earth was so damaged that it was better to harvest its water (the sea level is a little low), and go colonize the moon Titan... Now Titan isn't as bad as Io, but when you consider that Earth still had a breathable atmosphere, water, plant life, etc... why the heck would that make any sense?

Of course, it wasn't actually that dumb, but its dumb that they want you to believe that initially... spoilers:

Spoiler

Earth lost the war. The aliens were taking our water!!! , and using clones of humans that they captured while the humans were en route to Titan on an exploration mission before the alien invasion. The main character was unknowingly working for the aliens the whole time [sarcasm] Mind blown [/sarcasm]. M Night Shamylan would be proud.

Then there was interstellar... with its ill defined *blight* that was crossing from every plant species, somehow always getting past quarantines (they were burning entire fields if they detected the blight)... but somehow they could ensure no contamination of the plants they bring when they get to a new planet... and in the end, humanity makes massive space habitats before going.

Until the end, where they actually do move huge sections of the population and the "love" key to wormhole and time travel and whatnot... it was actually Ok, with the "plan B" plan to just start anew with human embryos on the ship and the very small crew... ensuring humanities survival, but dooming the billions...

Of course with that plan... it would be easier to just make a lot of sealed environments (Bio Sphere type stuff, we've learned a lot since the 80's - or not even sealed, just very good air filters), and wait out the blight

Spores don't last forever

On 1/19/2019 at 8:41 PM, kerbiloid said:

Looks like Io had been chosen by intention.

Looks like it's a shipyard, also collecting the fusion fuel for this ship from the Jupiter atmosphere, maybe antimatter (like in KSPI-E) and electromagnetic power from the radiation belt, and so on.
Maybe they also use the tidal/geothermal power for the shipyard own needs.

All three work best on Io.
It's close to Jupiter (so the fusion fuel and tidal power), it's inside the radiation belt (so, antimatter and pure energy).
And it's far from Earth and the people's eyes.

Collecting fusion fuel from Jupiter is dumb... Saturn has a much smaller gravity well, much easier to skim stuff from the upper atmosphere. No problems with radiation.

The radiation belt doesn't mean antimatter, nor pure energy.

The dV differences from a place like Europa (under the ice, for lots of water and shielding) are relatively small, and you still get geo power.

Nuclear power would be fine, a power plant on Io is a dumb idea.

Going to proxima centauri (10 years my arsch) is an even worse idea. It seems to have a planet in its zone where liquid water could exist on the surface... but...

Its a red dwarf, so very little light actually usable for photosynthesis makes it to the surface (I radiates mostly in the IR, which can't really power the chemical reactions that our life uses)

Its going to be tidally locked to the star... which poses the threat of the atmosphere all freezing out on the dark side unless there is sufficient convection to keep the dark side warm (such as is the case on Venus, which has such a slow rotation rate that its a good analogue).

Its really close to a star that throws out deadly flares and would strip away atmosphere (and once it gets below a certain threshhold for convection, the atmosphere collapses by freezing on the dark side)

https://mashable.com/2018/02/26/extreme-flare-proxima-centauri-b/#.VF5SkcUBiqW

https://www.space.com/39829-nearest-exoplanet-proxima-b-superflare.html

So they leave a place still supporting complex plant and animal life on its surface... to go away from the energy source of the sun and toward a radiation hellhole in a huge gravity well to get some tidal energy in the short term, then collect (helium 3 I presume, if its Hydrogen, well you have that all over, but not much on Io.. plenty on Earth and Mars) from the hardest place to collect it (Saturn, Uranus, Neptune... all much easier), to go to a red dwarf star that bombards a tidally locked, atmosphere-less planet with solar flares, and puts out light in the visible spectrum that is too weak to support plant growth...

Oh yea... great plan, it seems so much better now...

kerbiloid · January 21, 2019

38 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Collecting fusion fuel from Jupiter is dumb... Saturn has a much smaller gravity well, much easier to skim stuff from the upper atmosphere. No problems with radiation.

As stupid as the famous project "Daedalus" was.

Quote

The Daedalus Interstellar Spaceship was designed to use Helium-3 as its fuel. Helium-3 pellets would ignite, generating energetic fusion explosions. The exhaust from these explosions would propel Daedalus across interstellar space. Unfortunately, Helium-3 is rare and mining of celestial bodies in the solar system would be required. "The Daedalus mission involved a plan to mine the atmosphere of Jupiter," says Obousy.

Saturn has weaker radiation belts.
So, presumably (not sure if irl, too), it may contains some captured anti-particles to be collected and stored.
Like from a natural particle accelerator.

(Not that I claim this, but have read more than once.)

43 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

The dV differences from a place like Europa (under the ice, for lots of water and shielding) are relatively small, and you still get geo power.

Probably they don't want "still", they "a_sm_ucha_sp_ossible",

44 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Nuclear power would be fine, a power plant on Io is a dumb idea.

An auxilliary/emergency/initial power plant still being used. (A version).

45 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Going to proxima centauri (10 years my arsch) is an even worse idea. It seems to have a planet in its zone where liquid water could exist on the surface... but...

<snip>

Everything is better than Io, even Proxie B if it's enough big to have an area to choose.
Also, they still haven't decided, that's their first recon mission.
The only question: why not Mars, as there is nothing to colonize much better than Io.
But maybe they have already wasted Mars, too.

KerikBalm · January 21, 2019

6 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

As stupid as the famous project "Daedalus" was.
Saturn has weaker radiation belts.
So, presumably (not sure if irl, too), it may contains some captured anti-particles to be collected and stored.
Like from a natural particle accelerator.

Helium 3 is not an anti-particle, those don't last long around non-anti particles...

From your own link:

" "The Daedalus mission involved a plan to mine the atmosphere of Jupiter," says Obousy. "This requirement in itself indicates the need for a vast solar system-wide civilization with abundant capabilities and a massive space-based infrastructure, "

Sure, if you have fusion powered spacecraft, then the size of the gravity well isn't such a problem if you just skim the top of the atmosphere at perapsis... but then you're (again) not going to be bothering with an Io power station

Quote

Probably they don't want "still", they "a_sm_ucha_sp_ossible",

Why, what is the point? what will you do with that power... on Io?! Power the lights in your greenhouses that have no water and the "soil" is ground sulfur? Apparently we're not using lasers for propulsion (in which case, go nuclear, not geothermal)... nope, its still dumb

Quote

Everything is better than Io, even Proxie B if it's enough big to have an area to choose.
Also, they still haven't decided, that's their first recon mission.

Yes, (nearly) everything is better than Io, so why make that your staging area and the crucial lifeboat/link in the chain to save humanity.

And they haven't even decided to go interstellar for colonization... thats really dumb (not sure which is dumber, recon or colonization).

Humanity is barely surviving, there are a number of promising locations in the solar system (including very close by under Europa's ice), and they decide to use nearly all of humanities remaining resources on a probe? to a system that we already know with high confidence is not suitable for us?

So with this level of stupidity exhibited by the human race, may I assume the movie Idiocracy can serve as a prequel to this one?

kerbiloid · January 21, 2019

35 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Helium 3 is not an anti-particle

Where did I say this?

Daedalus wanted to mine Helium -3 from the Jupiter atmosphere,

Anti-particles (afair, so I don't have my own opinion about this) get caught by the magnetosphere.

So Io looks like all-in-one just because it's the closest moon to both atmo and belt.

35 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Why, what is the point?

Why do the people still use powerplants built in early XX?

35 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

what will you do with that power... on Io?!

As much as possible near the source of the fusion and antimatter fuel where they are building the ship.

So, a near-sun plant would give more power, but farther from its consumer.

So, they've probably considered Io as the most energetic place near the shipyard.

35 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

And they haven't even decided to go interstellar for colonization... thats really dumb (not sure which is dumber, recon or colonization).

They decided (according to radio), but this is just a scout ship.
I guess if Proxie looks bad for them, they will try their best somewhere else.

P.S.
I still can't understand why the girl who is absolutely fond of Io myth in the station, suddenly has switched into Leda theme once got into the museum.

And what creatures were making that honey. (If that substance is indeed honey.)

P.P.S.
Btw, if they were building Daedauls irl, where should be the shipyard and the fusion fuel refinery?

(I guess, the shipyard near Callisto, but the power and fuel source?)

Edited January 21, 2019 by kerbiloid

SnakyLeVrai · January 21, 2019

You can hunker down on Earth with less risk than the Jovian system, and at the same time send robots to harvest whatever awesome space fuel you need anywhere, with a much smaller crew if you need to monitor the operation from up close. Heck, you can bury them into Ganymede's or Callisto's crust. They'll have some limited gravity, maybe some water in the rocks, a thick and solid roof against radiation and meteorites, they can build a bunch of solar-thermal sources, even a nuclear reactor a few kilometers away (could be a molten salts one for safety's sake)... They'll be comfy. Plenty of time to play KSP even.

As for electric energy sources... I still don't understand why they put a power station around Io. That's... strange. The ONLY think I'd build near Io is a giant pizza oven. That would make more sense.

Going for Proxima is a great "if". Taking this destination as a solution to an imminent existential risk is quite the Hail Mary... And the steps between that, Io & stuff, that's a big risk to take. Was the Io and Proxima plot really necessary?

I remember a book I've read long ago, there was a brutal ice age and mankind took refuge underground. The plot revolved around a small recon team that ventured outside to see if things got better. That sounded more credible and the whole story was a good read.

Back on the movie: maybe they should have upped the risk a bit to give a good reason to bail. Like epic asteroid strike or something? grey goo? what other existential risks can you think about?

DDE · January 21, 2019

7 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Then there was interstellar... with its ill defined *blight* that was crossing from every plant species, somehow always getting past quarantines (they were burning entire fields if they detected the blight)... but somehow they could ensure no contamination of the plants they bring when they get to a new planet... and in the end, humanity makes massive space habitats before going.

Oh, but you forget that it's some sort of a different biochemistry and is churning out nitrogen en masse, de-terraforming Earth.

I'm not saying it's not just aliens, but the same aliens that built the wormhole...

KerikBalm · January 22, 2019

When did they ever say that in the movie? is this some behinds the scenes extra? some statement by someone involved in the production in an interview? Where does this different biochemistry come from?

Earth's atmosphere is about 80% nitrogen, how is churning out "nitrogen en masse" deterraforming Earth then?

Also that biochemistry makes no sense... its still a fail

15 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Where did I say this?

You didn't say it directly, but you quoted something about Helium-3, and then started talking about antimatter... you could make your thoughts more clear.

Quote

Anti-particles (afair, so I don't have my own opinion about this) get caught by the magnetosphere.
So Io looks like all-in-one just because it's the closest moon to both atmo and belt.

Sure they get caught, but the total amount is really really small, this is not a way to fuel up an interplanetary spaceship... you need a lot of antimatter for that.

Sure, Jupiter concentrates charged particles, but you can also just get closer to the sun to get a higher concentration, then you've also got loads of solar power. I know of some Sci-Fi where Mercury is the site of a power generation facility for making antimatter and propelling light sails, that sort of stuff (and is in a solar system that is extensively colonized, its not like humans went straight to Mercury after Earth).. Io still isn't making sense to me.

Quote

Why do the people still use powerplants built in early XX?

I'd actually be surprised if there were any powerplants from the early 20th century that were still running... there may be powerplants in the same location, but the generation equipment will have been completely replaced and updated. Also, its not even close to answering the question. On Earth a powerplant can easily send power to another location that is consuming it. What would anyone want to do on Io that would consume that power? At best I can see a ground based laser on Io for solar sail propulsion... but in that case I'm not sure the geopower is enough (then you need a lot of power, and a high power density in particular... nuclear looks more attractive here)

Quote

As much as possible near the source of the fusion and antimatter fuel where they are building the ship.So, a near-sun plant would give more power, but farther from its consumer.

Why is it farther from the consumer? If we've got fusion and antimatter starships, the distances in the solar system are fairly irrelevant... withthat much power, and mas smovement capability, it still seems easier to terraform someplace like venus or mars than to go to Io and then on a fishing expedition to another star. For venus, put up some light sails that reduce incoming sunlight (they'd be in a non-stnadard orbit because of light pressure, but it can work), direct a few objects to try adn blast off the atmosphere it has, nudge some kupier belt/scattered disk objects to bring it some water and nitrogen... or do the same for Mars + add an artificial magnetic field... all take less energy than an interstellar startship travelling at a significant fraction of c

Quote

So, they've probably considered Io as the most energetic place near the shipyard.

Why have the shipyard there? If you're skimming of He3, and have fusion reactors, then the ship skimming the He3 is the powerplant (consuming a small fraction of collected He3 and other atmospheric mass to balance the drag)

Quote

They decided (according to radio), but this is just a scout ship.
I guess if Proxie looks bad for them, they will try their best somewhere else.

It already looks bad from here... sending a scout to Proxima is just a dumb waste of 50 years (assuming 0.1 c travel speed)

Quote

Btw, if they were building Daedauls irl, where should be the shipyard and the fusion fuel refinery?

(I guess, the shipyard near Callisto, but the power and fuel source?)

Build the ship on Earth, all you need to do is send up the dry mass... much like in KSP I may send up payloads with nearly empty tanks, to be fueled later.

Fusion fuel refinery? Saturn? Uranus or Neptune? That radiation around Jupiter doesn't just do bad things to biological things. Electronics are very sensitive to it, and over time it damages plain old structures... such as seen with neutron radiation in nuclear reactors:

such as neutron embrittlement (although neutrons aren't directly present in the radiation belts... charged particles impacting structures at high velocity do bad things too)

Saturn's got a nearly identical composition (Neptune and Uranus are more different, often classed as ice giants instead of gas giants along with Jupiter and Saturn), with a much smaller gravity well and radiation belt... also a lot of other material easily accessible in the rings, and Titan has certain advantages for a base location (its still no Earth), an ample source of hydrocarbons for plastics carbon composites/nanotubes and such as well.

If you're building an interstellar starship, you can't say Saturn is too far away, but Jupiter isn't.

If you insist on Jupiter, then put the fuel refinery in lower orbit, inside the inner radiation belts, as just a station. What is the advantage of sitting it on the surface of Io? Geothermal power when you've already got a fusion reactor (that ship collecting fuel from the upper atmosphere needs a very good engine to get a net positive result, so we already assume that its got a powerful fusion engine) in orbit? That's a dumb waste of fuel just to get to Io.

If you're not building such a starship, then you're just looking for the easiest place to make a colony... and that isn't Io.

An Io colony still seems incredibly dumb to me. Trying to justify it results in some really contrived arguments.

kerbiloid · January 22, 2019

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

When did they ever say that in the movie?

Never. It's an intellectual exercise: to reabilitate a movie/book with an extremely poor scientific background. Sometimes it leads to interesting results and unexpected discoveries.
_{(Don't you think that I could take seriously a phylosophical environmental drama...)}

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

you could make your thoughts more clear.

That's true.

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

you can also just get closer to the sun to get a higher concentration, then you've also got loads of solar power.

Yes. But near Jupiter they can do this right on the shipyard backyard, though slower.
So, doing all three things (building a ship, mining, powering) at the same place.

Btw, according to the ship names "Exodus-127" and "Exodus-134" we can presume that not all of humans were evacuated, but just, say, a million in total.
So, if they have just a million-sized settlement, I would understand them when they want to have all-in-one.
Also, 1 million needs much less place than 7000. They can hide them almost everywhere except Venus and Mercury. So, if they place them at the shipyard, the only question where to place the shipyard.

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I'd actually be surprised if there were any powerplants from the early 20th century that were still running...

Spoiler

Of course, they replace the iron from time to time, but probably only when this is required.

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Why is it farther from the consumer? If we've got fusion and antimatter starships, the distances in the solar system are fairly irrelevant...

When you have a lot of ships.
We know they have ~100 (probably one-way) rescue ships, and one interstellar.
So, having this and probably a million of people, they should avoid spending much when they can.

While slowly building the ship, they slowly collect fuel for it, not spending the ships lifespan.

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

It already looks bad from here... sending a scout to Proxima is just a dumb waste of 50 years (assuming 0.1 c travel speed)

The expedition will take 10 years (they say).
That's btw why I'd recalled the antimatter.

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Build the ship on Earth, all you need to do is send up the dry mass... much like in KSP I may send up payloads with nearly empty tanks, to be fueled later.

Maybe. But unlike KSP you have to store 50 000 t of real frozen H/He.
So, to build at least as big storage near the gas giant as Daedalus itself.

And then move it to the ship, trying to avoid the evaporation.

Or bring the whole empty ship and keep it near the mining place for years while storing the frozen gases right onboard.
Btw they would make ice grains from them, so a fuel plant is required anyway.

In both cases you need a shipyard facility near the gas giant.

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Fusion fuel refinery? Saturn? Uranus or Neptune?

I have no idea why the Daedalus developers had selected Jupiter. They did it, so I just quote them.
Maybe it has a lot of ³He or ²H compared to Saturn (let alone the ice giants), I don't know. I would guess that's the reason.

Edited January 22, 2019 by kerbiloid

Superfluous J · January 22, 2019

Actual conversation between 2 people who watched the movie:

"Why can she email space, but only has cassette tapes to listen to?"
"Maybe she's a hipster?"
"No, because then she'd be listening to LPs."
"Oh. Maybe they took all the CDs to Io."

kerbiloid · January 22, 2019

7 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

"Why can she email space, but only has cassette tapes to listen to?"

Thank you, google, for your cloud storages. Only useless VHS will survive.

KerikBalm · January 23, 2019

Quote

It's an intellectual exercise: to reabilitate a movie/book with an extremely poor scientific background. Sometimes it leads to interesting results and unexpected discoveries.

I just find the "solutions" to be very contrived. These very contrived criteria being made up to make Io appear like not-a-terrible-choice still end up making other locations look much better.

20 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Yes. But near Jupiter they can do this right on the shipyard backyard, though slower.

So, doing all three things (building a ship, mining, powering) at the same place.

In both cases you need a shipyard facility near the gas giant.

I have no idea why the Daedalus developers had selected Jupiter. They did it, so I just quote them.
Maybe it has a lot of ³He or ²H compared to Saturn (let alone the ice giants), I don't know. I would guess that's the reason.

Well on Mercury, you can also mine, collect power, and collect solar wind... But again, I think its dumb to consider the radiation belts a resource, or the geothermal power a resource... if collecting He3 for powerful fusion engines, then He 3 is your power source.

You could mine on Titan, and you don't have the radiation to deal with. Any hab leak will be slow (the methane percent in the atmosphere is low... its not really an explosive risk), with no worry about explosive decompression. Plenty of water for the colonists, and a smaller gravity well. Io is a terrible place to settle people... they might as well live on a space-station and remotely operate mining equipment. Also you'd probably want a shipyard on something with lower gravity, like a smaller moonlet.

Quote

*pic of the hover damn*

I'm sure the electrical generators inside the dam have all been completely replaced. Also, dams do more than generate power (serve as water reservoirs, flood control), and may be replaced by future technology in the interest of restoring more natural environmental conditions

Quote

While slowly building the ship, they slowly collect fuel for it, not spending the ships lifespan.

... Maybe. But unlike KSP you have to store 50 000 t of real frozen H/He. So, to build at least as big storage near the gas giant as Daedalus itself. ...

And then move it to the ship, trying to avoid the evaporation.

Either way, you need to collect and store fuel over a long period of time, I don't see how it changes anything. You'll have to have fuel storage while building the ship, and then get the ship to the fuel storage - the fuel will be much more massive than the ship for an interstellar voyage, so you send the ship to the fuel, not vice versa. However, for interplanetary voyages with an antimatter/He3 powered craft, the fuel fraction needed is much much less and the situation is reversed - moving the fuel is moving less mass than moving the ship (ie moving the small amount of fuel needed to get the ship to the fuel depot where it then fuels up for the interstellar voyage).

Also... with this tech, why wouldn't Tritium-Deuterium fuel (or hydrogen-boron) also work for the ship for interplanetary trips... anywhere with ice can get you the fuel needed to move the ship to the He3 collection point. D-T fusion is easier than H-He3 fusion (but He3 fusion is attractive because its aneutronic)... which brings up another question... why are we stuck on He3 fusion anyway? Radiation concerns? yet you stick your colony right in the middle of Jupiters radiation belts... whut?

Go with more standard H/D/T fusion, and you can fuel it from any Icy body... and any small body with a mixture of ice and rock then looks like a better place to put your shipyard+colony+fuel station

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/fusionfuel.php

"Space enthusiasts trumpet the fact that there are helium-3 deposits on the moon that can be mined, but they don't mention that it is in a very low concentration. You have to process over 100 million tons of Lunar regolith to obtain one lousy ton of helium 3.

It is possible to manufacture the stuff, but it takes lots of neutrons. Basically you breed tritium and wait for it to decay. There is lots of helium-3 available in the atmosphere of Saturn and Uranus, if your space infrastructure is up to the task of traveling that far from Terra. Helium-3 concentration is estimated at about 10 parts per million, which beats the heck out of Luna. Jupiter has helium-3 as well, but its steep gravity well makes it uneconomical to harvest."

FWIW, Neptune has the highest concentration of Helium in its upper atmosphere

Neptune: 19% (+/- 3.2%)

Uranus: 15% (+/- 3%)

Jupiter: 10% (+/- 2%)

Saturn: 3.25% (+/- 2.4%) (I'm actually surprised that Saturn is so different)

Unlike on Earth where the small amounts of Helium are produced by radioactive decay (an alpha particle = He4), these gas gianst trapped primordial Helium, and thus have similar He3 to He4 ratios. On Earth helium escapes easily, and we only get the helium produced by radioactive decay that gets trapped in rocks).

Also scroll down that page to see a summary of various reactions L-C (Lawson criteria) is a measure of how easy/hard the reaction is to sustain ... note that D-T is the easiest, and gets an exhaust velocity of 8.7% c, whereas D-He3 is only a slight improvement at 8.9% c... with a required lawson criteria 30 times higher. He3-He3 fusion is worse with a reaction parameter that isn't well known.

BTW - The ship, as its thrusting, is still going to need to store its fuel for years anyway.

Quote

Btw they would make ice grains from them, so a fuel plant is required anyway.

Huh? From what? elaborate? You think they would make ice grains of Helium and Hydrogen? Helium3 has to be cooled to 0.2 kelvin to freeze it (its about 1 kelvin for He4)

Quote

So, if they place them at the shipyard, the only question where to place the shipyard.

Yea... so why Io?

Want Helium3? any of the gas/ice giants will do... with Uranus and Neptune having the highest concentration, and the lowest gravity well

Metal material for ship structures? any of the gas giants have moons that are a mixture of rock and ice (Uranian moons are relatively water poor). Some water ice is good, for colony purposes after all. The smaller moons won't have a differentiated interior, so you won't have to go through a bunch of ice and silicates to get at the metal (io has a mostly silicate crust, so the metal is still mostly at the core, which is inaccessable due to the massive amounts of magma). Hydrocarbons for biological purposes of the colonists, or making plastics? Titan (Saturn) is an excellent source, while having other benefits for easier colonization.

Water: see above: NOT IO (but other Jovian moons are OK). Serves biological purposes for colonists, but also as a source of D and T for initial fueling of the ship and moving it to the depot (again D-T fusion is easier to achieve, and you move the ship to the fuel, not vice versa because the fuel is more massive than the ship).

Radiation avoidance: Not Io, ideally not Jupiter at all

Power source: Fusion... clearly... otherwise we don't care about building a starship/ collecting He3, and just pick the easiest place to support a colony (which would be bio-domes on Earth).

I'm thinking put the colony on Ariel with these criteria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_(moon)

Excellent source of Helium 3 nearby (more abundant and easier to get to than from Jupiter)

Likely liquid water under the crust: supports colonists and fusion reactors.

Low gravity makes launching the ship easy

Orbital infrastructure (fuel collector+depot) and colonist don't have to deal with severe radiation

Equal parts ice and rocky material. At 1/36th Earth's gravity, the pressure going 400 km down is equal to the pressure at the bottom of Earth's ocean (11km down, which we've been to).. with a radius of only 550 km, the rocky core that makes up half its mass is thus clearly accessible from underneath its ocean)... so Rocky material: check, various metals: perhaps even more accessible than Io due to a cooler more without molten silicates between the surface and the metal.

But there are numerous smaller undifferentiated moons that also look way easier to get at rocky material/metals for building a ship, have water for colonists and initial fuel, less radiation, and more accessible He3

Io is still a really bad location to choose

kerbiloid · January 23, 2019

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Well on Mercury, you can also mine, collect power, and collect solar wind...

If it was tidally locked, maybe. But there they have to deal with hot long periods, so dig into ground and cool the vaults under the hot surface. Personally I would prefer to keep heatig a cold place than keep cooling a hot one.
Also it's probably easier to collect the cold gas from a gas giant atmosphere than have the giant heat-resistant scoops for the solar wind.
Also as their interplanetary ships look one-way, probably they have limited delta-V, so Mercury was not an option.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

You could mine on Titan, and you don't have the radiation to deal with.

Titan is covered with frozen hydrocarbons, so a mining activity there looks poorly compatible to an on-ground inhabited colony,
If they just have a settlement on Io, and mine the fluids outside of it, they have less problems with the base itself.

Another question, why have they not placed the colony on Callisto, but as the intro says, they have gotten to an existing geothermal powerplant, so probably that's the reason.
There was already an uninhabited powerplant on Io, they added a quick-and-dirty settlement around the existing infrastructure.
This tells to us that they probably were limited in time, so used the simplest available solution.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I'm sure the electrical generators inside the dam have all been completely replaced. Also, dams do more than generate power (serve as water reservoirs, flood control), and may be replaced by future technology in the interest of restoring more natural environmental conditions

Of course it was replaced in its time (but I'm sure not earlier), to make it more effective or reliable.
But if it had a 50 years lifespan, unlikely it would be replaced after just 20 years.
On Io - especially. It's expensive to replace it too often.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

interplanetary voyages with an antimatter/He3 powered craft,

would mean that they at least have such craft.
In this case they wouldn't need their Exoduses-127, -134. They could just keep shuttling an Exodus-1 there and back.

So, it looks like they have a hundred of slow bulky single-use rescue arks to fly to somewhere with a limited delta-V.
They don't have a regular interplanetary courier ship.
They have a single instance of a champion super-drive for an interplanetary ship, and probably several more as they plan to move the whole colony if Proxima rules.
(Or they plan to reuse it after return to move a slow generation ship made of those arks to the new star system.)

In this case they are strictly limited in their motions across the Solar System, and they really need all-in-one and to put their beds (colony) around the oven (the existing powerplant).

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

why wouldn't Tritium-Deuterium fuel (or hydrogen-boron) also work for the ship for interplanetary trips.

why are we stuck on He3 fusion anyway? Radiation concerns? yet you stick your colony right in the middle of Jupiters radiation belts... whut?

D-He-3 was the Daedalus proposal, so I just quote this.
As I can understand the idea is:
1) it's aneutronic;
2) it gives two positive particles (p and He-4) which can be thrown in the same direction with the Daedalus' magnetic nozzle;
3) there is more He-3 than the radioactive T, and it's easier to keep it while mining and flying.

These three things look very significant for me, too, so I guess the Daedalus developers were right.

Daedalus didn't use antimatter at all, that's right. But it had just <0.1 c cruise speed.
So, as the Io dwellers plan to reach much greater speed, I guess they could not avoid some antimatter injection. That's why I mention the antimatter.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

note that D-T is the easiest, and gets an exhaust velocity of 8.7% c, whereas D-He3 is only a slight improvement at 8.9% c... with a required lawson criteria 30 times higher.

And if the fusion is heated by antimatter (unlike the Daedalus' electron cannons), the D-He 3 ignition looks also not a problem.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Go with more standard H/D/T fusion, and you can fuel it from any Icy body... and any small body with a mixture of ice and rock then looks like a better place to put your shipyard+colony+fuel station

... so as they didn't prefer to mine Callisto, this imho proves that they have a helium-propelled interstellar drive, is it better or worse.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

"Space enthusiasts trumpet the fact that there are helium-3 deposits on the moon that can be mined, but they don't mention that it is in a very low concentration. You have to process over 100 million tons of Lunar regolith to obtain one lousy ton of helium 3.

And this explains why they didn't settle on the Moon. They needed more helium-rich mine.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Saturn: 3.25% (+/- 2.4%) (I'm actually surprised that Saturn is so different)

Me too. Maybe it has appeared farther from Sun or I don't know. But this shocks.

Though, it also explains why Jupiter.
It was closer, it has more helium, it had a working infrastructure.
(The only thing I can't get: why did they need that powerplant on Io before?)

Uranus and Neptune were just too far for the slow arks, so were not an option.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Huh? From what? elaborate? You think they would make ice grains of Helium and Hydrogen? Helium3 has to be cooled to 0.2 kelvin to freeze it (its about 1 kelvin for He4)

Afaik Daedalus was going to use micro-pellets of the frozen D and He3, thrown into the magnetic nozzle and then heated with an electron beam.

So, I guess they would have some plant to granulize the frozen gases. (I don't know how, they are just wiser than me).

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Metal material for ship structures?

As they have the arks, the ship itself could be built in LEO, then slowly delivered to the Io orbit to be fueled.
Iirc Daedalus was 5 000 t dry + 50 000 t of D+He3, so this looks plausible.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Water: see above: NOT IO (but other Jovian moons are OK). Serves biological purposes for colonists

Life support water recycling. Unavoidable losses can be replaced with either Io traces of ice or indeed fro any other Jupiter moon.
The key point - the powerplant. Mining some water to replenish what has gone requires much less energy than a million (,say,) colony.
So, they put the settlement aside the power and mine some ice in any place.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Radiation avoidance: Not Io, ideally not Jupiter at all

If any choice.
Or a thick layer of dirt above the cramped habitat if none. If no such existing facilities except Io.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Power source: Fusion.

If they have the thermonuke reactors (not just pulse engines like Daedalus) and if they don't save every gram of the fusion fuel for the interstellar ship.
Otherwise: that's exactly why they needed the old geothermal powerplant.

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I'm thinking put the colony on Ariel with these criteria:

1. If they can get to Uranus in slow arks (probably they weren't).
2. If there is a ready-to-use infrstructure including a powerplant for the habitat (probably it wasn't).

So, probably yes, they should have built an emergency base on Ariel and enjoy all its advantages.
And as they didn't, probably they hadn't. An improvisation with what's already ready. The things got bad before they had any deal with Uranus (maybe with anything beyond Jupiter).

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Io is still a really bad location to choose

The keyword is "choose".

Upd.
Was wondering who lives on Io.
Ionians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_adjectivals_and_demonyms_of_astronomical_bodies

Edited January 23, 2019 by kerbiloid

KerikBalm · January 23, 2019

Super super super contrived...

* They're building interstellar craft, but going to Uranus takes too long

* The " fluids outside of it", and the solids on the surface of Io are mostly silicates, not much good for anything for building a space ship... not better than titan

* " There was already an uninhabited powerplant on Io" what the heck for? to power what? why would such a plant be constructed in the first place? How does it operate (what does it use for coolant? what uses the power it produces? Where does it dissipate the heat? the vacuum of space? Europa is much better, this is contrived nonsense.. you seem to acknowledge this: " (The only thing I can't get: why did they need that powerplant on Io before?) "... I guess you're playing devil's advocate, but it comes across as really really contrived.

* " 1) it's aneutronic;" Who cares if you're going to park your colony in a massive radiation belt? PS: Proton Boron fuel is too, and its much easier to get and store

* " 2) it gives two positive particles (p and He-4) which can be thrown in the same direction " Who cares? every ionized atomic nucleus (as in a plasma, as in every fusion reaction) is positively charged (all that is relevant here is energy in the nuclei vs energy in neutrons... but then we're looking at any aneutronic reaction.. P-B again seems nice)

* " would mean that they at least have such craft. " - So they have obsolete, slow inefficient craft for saving people, and they're going to take their supership with a dV budget to go back and forth from Earth to Uranus in a short time over and over again... and send it one a 1 way scouting mission to a place that already looks bad... these people are so dumb that they deserve to go extinct

* " Also as their interplanetary ships look one-way, probably they have limited delta-V, so Mercury was not an option. " The extra few km/sec to leave from mercury vs Jupiter (if its even that, because of Oberth and being so deep in Jupiter's well), is insignificant if you're talking a ship that can get to Proxima in 10 years (requires a speed of about 0.5 c)

* " they say that the expedition to Proxima will take ten years." That requires a ship going half the speed of light. Why are we even talking about He3? even H-Fe fusion (ridicuously difficult... like a between a star going nova and super-nova difficult) isn't going to achieve that. You need straight up antimatter for that... So you're probably going to talk about radiation belts again...
http://www.astronomynow.com/news/n1108/19antimatter/

Earth's belts contain about 160 nanograms of antimatter. Jupiter's magnetic field is 18,000 times stronger... if it contains 18,000 times as much antimatter, that is 2.88 miligrams of antimatter... congrats, your can collect all of it, and your ship that gets to 0.5 c can have a dry mass of half a milligram...

Nope, this isn't holding up

* " If they have the thermonuke reactors (not just pulse engines like Daedalus) and if they don't save every gram of the fusion fuel for the interstellar ship." well, a fusion fuel ship can't go 0.5c anyway, but assuming they go with He3 anyway, there's a lot of other types of fusion reactions they could use for power without touching H3 reserves... not to mention the amount consumed would be an insignificant fraction of what would be needed for the ship.

FYI, even Daedelus has moved on from Jupiter:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43232067/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/project-icarus-gas-mines-uranus/#.XEhjAclDu70

Quote

However, there is a surprising amount of helium-3 in the gas giant planets of the outer solar system, and in the original 1978 "Project Daedalus" report Bob Parkinson suggested mining it via floating robotic factories in the atmosphere of Jupiter. Since then a different planet has moved to the forefront of gas-mining plans because it lacks Jupiter's intense gravity, Saturn's gigantic rings of orbital debris and is closer than distant Neptune.

You guessed it; the best helium-3 supply in the solar system is from the "Gas Mines" of Uranus.

I'll never understand why people feel the need to try and come up with contrived explanations for obvious examples of the trope "did not do the research" (page has since been removed from TV tropes they have this though: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CriticalResearchFailure and https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1294367871025420100 )

Why is it so hard to admit the writers wrote stuff without doing the research... why does one have to invent a contrived explanation for this (or doing the "kessel run in 12 parsecs" for another example)

Its dumb, and any contrived explanation doesn't make it less dumb, it just makes explaining the stupidity more complicated... like responding to flat Earther's or young Earth creationists contrived explanations for a variety of things...

kerbiloid · January 23, 2019

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

contrived

Absolutely easy.

***

They live on Earth. They don't await a toxicalypse. They aren't planning any exodus.

They research space. They don't hurry. Currently they have reached Jupiter and built some facility in close proximity,

They have standard slow space self-propelled barge. _{The ancestor of the future Exodus class.} Several such barges are floating between Earth and close planets delivering crews and cargo.
The barge has enough delta-V to reach Venus, Mars, asteroids, even Jupiter if try its best.

They don't have a colony neither on Venus, nor on Mars. They don't need it and aren't going to escape from Earth.
Maybe they have some scientific and maybe industrial outposts scattered along the asteroid belts. A few of people live there.

They maybe even have some base near Saturn, but it's too, too far. So, unlikely.

They see Uranus and Neptune in the sky and think:
"What a good planet is that Uranus, especially its moon Ariel! It has a lot of goods we can use.
We definitely must found a base there, once we get enough fast interplanetary ships to fly. Our barge is too slow for it ."

Also they can see Mercury near the Sun.
"What a nice planet, that Mercury. If only we had enough fast ships to fly there and back."

***

One day the physicists announce a scientific breakthrough:
"We did a scientific voodoo and now can create a fusion pulse engine, using anti-matter as ignitor."

The street public exclames:
"Wow! Now we can build super-fast interplanetary ships!
We can build bases on Mercury, Titan, and Ariel!
We can catch the solar wind and carry the hydrogen back to Earth!"

"No." - severely say the physicists. - "Of course we can, but the technology is very expensive. We don't need Mercury, Titan, and Ariel bases right now. We should build a superfast ship and send it to a target which deserves our efforts. Say, to another star. Mercury, Titan, and Ariel can wait."

Astronomers say:
"Proxima! There is the Proxima B planet, in the habitable zone. It's the closest option, so why not."

Physicists agree:
"That's fine. Let's go to your Proxie, have a look. With the new drive it will take about ten years."

***

They have a walk to the government and take enough money for the project.

Then they start designing the ship. They need a starting point.
They think a little and take from the upper shelf an old folder "Project Daedalus and how to build it."

They say:
"So, let's make a fusion pulse engine like on this picture. Let's throw back the plasma exhaust with strong magnetic field.
We don't want neutrons, we don't need things flying in different directions, so let's use D+He3 reaction like in this Daedalus project."

They hear:
"There is not enough He3 on that Moon."

They say:
"Who said about the Moon? We will mine it from the Jupiter's upper atmosphere, like in this book."

"But you can ignite D+T much easier."

"That's true. But we anyway have to use antimatter to enforce the engine. So, with antimatter it's no problem to ignite D+He3."

"But where will you take all that antimatter? Are you going to have a plant near the Sun!"

"We would be glad to do that, but we don't want to spend our unique champion engine for such odd jobs.
We will mine the antiparticles captured by the Jupiter magnetosphere, right in its radiation belt."

"But the concentration is much lower than near the Sun."

"We don't hurry. Anyway it will take a lot of time to collect, extract, freeze, and granulate a hundred thousand tonnes of D and He3, so it's all right with the antimining rate.
Also we have no inhabitated places around that Jupiter, it's still far, far away. So if the antimatter explodes, nobody gets harmed."

***

They build and deliver to the low Jupiter orbit the fluid collecting facilities: one for gas collecting, another one for antimatter.
They put it close to each other and close to Jupiter, so place both near the Ionian orbit.
They create a supporting surface structure on Io with some communication and control equipment, some storages, some who knows-what.
As it is designed as uncrewed, they don't want to equip it with a reactor. So, they put a geothermal powerplant there. Happily, Io provides is with a lot of energy thanks to the tidal forces and low orbit.

They build the unique champion fusion pulse drive in LEO, and attach an interstellar ship.
They deliver the unique champion starship to Jupiter by a slow interplanetary tug derived from the standard barge.
They care about the super-engine lifespan and don't use it for this odd job.

So, now they have several outposts below the asteroid belt, no colonies anywhere. And a slowly fueling facility in low Jupiter orbit, with an auxilliary uncrewed ground base on Io.

***

Astronomers declare:
"Look. Of course that Proxima B sicks compared to Earth, but took a look again, and now we can say that some existing terrestrial life probably can survive there, though without pleasure."

***

A toxicalypse happens. The lowlands get covered with toxic mist (in the movie).

They see no other option rather than evacuate as much people as possible to at least anywhere.
They start quickly cloning the standard slow barge making rescue ships, and calling it Exodus class rescue ship.
They can build about a hundred until the shipyard gets out of order.

"Moon!.. Mars! Titan!.. Ariel!.. Quaoar!.." - cries the street crowd, chosing the destination place.

"Forget it" - severely say the astronomers. "These are just outposts and pure scientific bases for several hundred persons, placed in poor places to live. We must check Proxima and probably move to there."

They put as much people into the Exoduses, and they slowly crawl to Jupiter, to Io, to the place where the interstellar ship is preparing for future flight.

Once reaching Io, they land the humans, and they quickly build an improvised vault city, hiding it from radiation under 20 m thick layer of smelly dirt.
Happily, the geothermal powerplant still works, so they have enough energy to live.
Sometimes they have a short trip to an ice moon and bring some water to replenish what they couldn't clean.
They aren't going to make a colony here. They are waiting for an interstellar train.

***

The interstellar ship is now fueled, crewed, and cargoed. It starts to Proxima B.

The expedition takes more than 10 years but at last they return and tell to the still surviving half of the initial colonists: "Well... It's OK. We can live there."

***

While the scout ship was travelling, they have collected enough propellant for a new flight.

They attach some Exoduses to the scout ship, making a slow generation ship.

They start to Proxima.

50 years later some of them and their children reach Proxima B and found a colony on new planet.

Of course, it's a red dwarf. But while it's a tragedy for a possible new life evolution, it's a challenge for the already evolved sapient life.

Edited January 23, 2019 by kerbiloid

'Io' movie (2019) - with extra epic wrong science

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