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Artemis Discussion Thread


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Not actually of Artemis itself, nor is it from NASA officially (it does feature a worker associated with NASA), but the attempts from 2013 for lunar landing software :

 

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2 hours ago, RCgothic said:
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The solid prop segments have already been mated, starting the one year clock to launch.

Late April for arrival at KSC (assuming good static fire). I will be extremely surprised if Artemis 1 launches this year.

I'd be surprised as well, but good news will always be a good news, and a successful launch is always good news.

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19 minutes ago, Mitchz95 said:

TIL there's a Dragon XL. I just assumed Starship would be taking over for lunar missions.

It's almost a year past the announcement. But I half expect Starship will take its duties eventually anyway, especially if they win the HLS contract.

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Moved this reply here to not derail a thread:

  

22 minutes ago, YNM said:

Given we already have resupply mission from JAXA planned for it sometime in 2024 (this document, this page) I think it'll see continuous manning much like ISS currently does.

SLS can only fly once a year.

Aside from this logistical problem, it would be an unacceptable risk to the astronauts. NRHO is a terrible place for people to stay for long periods.

There is literally nothing useful they can do there. Look at the slightly closer Moon out the window while being exposed to dangerous radiation levels in an even less comfortable facility than ISS.

 

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8 hours ago, tater said:

SLS can only fly once a year.

Aside from this logistical problem, it would be an unacceptable risk to the astronauts. NRHO is a terrible place for people to stay for long periods.

Honestly given that SpX is now involved on Gateway I think it's only a matter of time before commercial crew resupply to Gateway itself starts after the station has been established...

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1 minute ago, YNM said:

Honestly given that SpX is now involved on Gateway I think it's only a matter of time before commercial crew resupply to Gateway itself starts after the station has been established...

What vehicles could do this other than Starship?

A modified Dragon 2 or Starliner?

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2 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

A modified Dragon 2 or Starliner?

Probably halfway between modified Dragon v2 and v1 actually, since NASA is already enticing them to do Antares-style cargo resupply, the avionics are the same and the only change is on radiation and heatshield I suppose, also larger tanks/more fuel. Probably less cargo as well due to increased LSS duration. Maybe 3 seats rather than 4 and a lot more stuffing. Definitely can't just use a v2 since the dV is going to be tight.

2 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Starship ?

While HLS would be the vindication of Starship cargo I think it'll take somewhat longer for it to start launching people. Also if it does end up doing Gateway it'd probably make a shorter life out of Gateway itself - preferably you want a much larger station.

Edited by YNM
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9 minutes ago, YNM said:

Probably halfway between modified Dragon v2 and v1 actually, since NASA is already enticing them to do Antares-style cargo resupply, the avionics are the same and the only change is on radiation and heatshield I suppose, also larger tanks/more fuel. Probably less cargo as well due to increased LSS duration. Maybe 3 seats rather than 4 and a lot more stuffing. Definitely can't just use a v2 since the dV is going to be tight.

Yeah. You're probably right.

If something like that ever comes up, my guess is that they would probably do away with the trunk. I'm not sure what they would do for an engine, but it would probably be some sort of AJ-10. If not, then they would probably develop their own. Maybe based on SuperDraco? Although that's designed for SL so it doesn't make sense.

idk. It's probably never going to happen.

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15 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Yeah. You're probably right.

If something like that ever comes up, my guess is that they would probably do away with the trunk. I'm not sure what they would do for an engine, but it would probably be some sort of AJ-10. If not, then they would probably develop their own. Maybe based on SuperDraco? Although that's designed for SL so it doesn't make sense.

It would be easy enough to give SuperDraco a vacuum nozzle, but it would have far too much thrust -- around 93 kN, just slightly less than an RL-10C. Since the Kestrel was retired, SpaceX doesn't have an intermediate engine between the Draco and the SuperDraco. Their notional 10-tonne meth-gox thrusters for Starship will come in at about the same thrust as SuperDraco.

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19 hours ago, YNM said:

While HLS would be the vindication of Starship cargo I think it'll take somewhat longer for it to start launching people. Also if it does end up doing Gateway it'd probably make a shorter life out of Gateway itself - preferably you want a much larger station.

One wild idea use an moonship as an lunar space station.  In fact if I was Musk i would front this. It does not even have to land on the moon, just circle in around it. You can add an inner tank to even store hydrogen if needed. You have an huge space station and fuel depot in one cheap launch. 

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49 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

One wild idea use an moonship as an lunar space station. 

That's also an option, very simple one at that. We've been there, done that too (Skylab).

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  • 3 weeks later...
53 minutes ago, RCgothic said:

I suppose this is a way to prevent Artemis III being delayed (more) in the absence of an operational HLS. But it is a delay to the landing.

2024 was always... aspirational.

Regardless, the focus on surface operations vs Gateway I think was a driver for pushing things harder—the reality is that the budgets will be the same regardless, so pushing for more rapid goals I think is a good thing, even if they are never going to get met on time.

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