JadeOfMaar Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) Your situation is worse than a "simple" "Just add the missing bits with :FINAL." All of RR's non-RF process controllers occur twice and there are stock based converter modules in there, which tells me that there are one or more broken/error-filled patches (and/or patches that don't belong in an RO install) causing nasty side-effects. I figure the whole reason that ROKerbalism's cloned convert-o-trons exist is to dodge this issue. Your screenshot tells me that these cloned parts are practically left blank so you should be able to get going simply by giving them RR's opt-in keys. Shouldn't even need to use :FINAL // Opt-in ROKerbalism's cloned converters @PART[kerbalism-ISRU]:AFTER[RationalResources] { RRConverter = Set RRPower = 1 RRSlots = 2 !MODULE[Configure] {} !MODULE[ProcessController],* {} } @PART[kerbalism-miniISRU]:AFTER[RationalResources] { RRConverter = Set RRPower = 0.25 RRSlots = 1 !MODULE[Configure] {} !MODULE[ProcessController],* {} } // Hide the broken Squad parts @PART[ISRU|MiniISRU]:AFTER[RationalResources] { @category = none TechHidden = True } Edited October 5, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonas1997 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 I see, thanks! Just to be sure, are nodes like these @PART[kerbalism-ISRU]:AFTER[RationalResources] { RRConverter = Set RRPower = 1 RRSlots = 2 !MODULE[Configure] {} !MODULE[ProcessController],* {} } enough to add the new processes to any ISRU part and clean up messy configs like the ones I came across in my previous post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) @Tonas1997 Absolutely yes for adding processes to any ISRU part. And I suppose yes to cleaning up messy configs (note: you have to apply the cleaner patches yourself). Stockalike Mining Expansion is an example of the easy opt-in system for the categories of ISRU parts (not just converters), tagged in the "00_<stuff>_opt-in.cfg" files here: RationalResourcesCompanion. Edited October 7, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferyharrell Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 @JadeOfMaar, I have a stupid question. I'm just getting into ISRU for the first time, and I'm confused about how to turn hydrogen and CO2 into their liquid forms. The wiki says RR Refridgerator is required, but I can't find a part that does that job. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) @jefferyharrell I think I was referring to the "type" or role of the part. The exact part is the RR Boxed Compressor which changes some resources from gas to liquid. There's also the RR Boxed Decompressor for the opposite role. These parts are kept in the RationalResourcesParts mod folder. I will make the relevant edits to the wiki page. Edited October 19, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefferyharrell Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said: @jefferyharrell I think I was referring to the "type" or role of the part. The exact part is the RR Boxed Compressor which changes some resources from gas to liquid. There's also the RR Boxed Decompressor for the opposite role. These parts are kept in the RationalResourcesParts mod folder. I will make the relevant edits to the wiki page. That would explain it: I didn't have Parts installed. I'll fix that next time I play. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) I'm wondering what the demand for this would be like: I wrote a patch just to enable fuel switching in the Panther, Whiplash and Rapier as I've been developing cryofueled planes and it really bothers me that the stock jets are left behind, asking for LiquidFuel. While I've tuned jet engines for Hydrogen...I haven't done so for Methane so for a while the Methane setting will produce stats identical to the Hydrogen setting. (Ignore the super high Isp numbers on the Panther preview. That's an error and will change.) Spoiler Crouching Panther, Hidden Eagle. Wah yah! Edited October 20, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 That reminds me of that one time a friend of mine killed his car engine by refueling with diesel instead of petrol by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaSkyhawk Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Hi @JadeOfMaar I've just got a quick pair of questions - I'm currently working on my own custom tech tree and I'm getting to the point where I'm gonna be adding support for Rational Resources, and I've got a few questions about that. First of all, my tech tree has a basic hypergolic fuel system w/o Real Fuels that would need to use some but not all of the ISRUs (it only has Aerozine50 and NTO, no MMH or UDMH, so I'd try and set up a recipe that goes right from the basic RR elements to the final products with no middlemen). Looking at the GitHub page, I think it seems like I could do that by just adding in the ISRU recipes in the following format in a separate config file? Quote +MODULE[ModuleResourceConverter]:HAS[#ConverterName[Basic]]:NEEDS[SkyhawkScienceSystem] { @ConverterName = SSS Aerozine50 // using moles @StartActionName = Start ISRU [Aerozine50] @StopActionName = Stop ISRU [Aerozine50] @ToggleActionName = Toggle ISRU [Aerozine50] INPUT_RESOURCE { ResourceName = (input stuff) Ratio = 1 FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW } OUTPUT_RESOURCE { ResourceName = (output stuff) Ratio = 1 FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW DumpExcess = True } } Does that seem right? I'm also planning to try and add support for most nuclear engines to have the same fuel-switching capabilities as in the Nuclear Family patch (and potentially the same for Cold Gas RCS), but I'm not entirely sure how to approach that. I know that with the RR Nuclear Family patch all I should need to do is give every valid nuclear engine the "RRNF = Yes" tag, but I'm concerned that people might just miss installing the extra file. Do you think it would be easier to just include a copy/modification of that file in my download, or nah? From what I understand the MIT license seems to allow it, but either way, figure it was better to ask and see what you recommend first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Hey @CessnaSkyhawk. Congrats in advance on making your own tech tree. "I think it seems like I could do that by just adding in the ISRU recipes in the following format in a separate config file?" - Yes, that's simply how it works as far as making each converter option to exist and applying them to tagged converter parts. But since you want to skip the intermediate ISRU chains you'll want to get familiar with my conversions calculator, RR_ISRU.xlsx, especially the Molar Mass mode. It supports as many resources as possible that aren't abstract and are relevant to generalized players. You can include it in your download but I think it would be much better that I ask the CKAN crew to register some of my extras, including that one, then you can have it as a dependency and the relevant portion of your mod would just be to tag engines. Or you can PR your updated list to me and I'll publish it. RR is mostly just configs so its download is small. I have an issue with the Kiwi Tech Tree in this regard. It adds fuel-switching to all RCS thrusters but its dev has not notified me of this such that: Either I could change my own RCS patch (and any others in similar cases) to not activate when Kiwi is installed --> RCS thrusters get double-patched and have 2 switches for the same module (most likely the stock ones) and that looks bad. Or they could disable their own or tune their patch to exclude stock RCS when both mods are present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaSkyhawk Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said: Hey @CessnaSkyhawk. Congrats in advance on making your own tech tree. "I think it seems like I could do that by just adding in the ISRU recipes in the following format in a separate config file?" - Yes, that's simply how it works as far as making each converter option to exist and applying them to tagged converter parts. But since you want to skip the intermediate ISRU chains you'll want to get familiar with my conversions calculator, RR_ISRU.xlsx, especially the Molar Mass mode. It supports as many resources as possible that aren't abstract and are relevant to generalized players. You can include it in your download but I think it would be much better that I ask the CKAN crew to register some of my extras, including that one, then you can have it as a dependency and the relevant portion of your mod would just be to tag engines. Or you can PR your updated list to me and I'll publish it. RR is mostly just configs so its download is small. I have an issue with the Kiwi Tech Tree in this regard. It adds fuel-switching to all RCS thrusters but its dev has not notified me of this such that: Either I could change my own RCS patch (and any others in similar cases) to not activate when Kiwi is installed --> RCS thrusters get double-patched and have 2 switches for the same module (most likely the stock ones) and that looks bad Or they could disable their own or tune their patch to exclude stock RCS when both mods are present. Thanks for all the advice! I'm gonna take a look at the calculator now to start playing around with getting my resources set up. And as to the second part, I think your idea probably is the best idea - uploading it to CKAN and then just having me tag the engines is probably the smoothest and most simple way to do it, although I can also provide a PR variant too incase you ever want to implement it directly. I will need to see what I do about the RCS though, as I'm planning on having my own RCS fuels aside from CGTs. I definitely want to avoid KTT style glitches tho, so I'll keep you updated on what I do with them - that was one annoying bug I always noticed during my time using that tree which actually helped push me towards making my own! Edited October 20, 2021 by CessnaSkyhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) RCS Family has an update on the way. I've added some RealFuels support to it (among other things). The current options are: Name (ratio) -- [SL / Vac reference Isp] LqdHydrogen + LqdOxygen (0.745 : 0.255) -- 152 /380s LqdMethane + LqdOxygen (0.434 : 0.566) -- 170 / 300s I don't know what else to put for bi-propellants, and I know not what for mono-propellants: their ratios or reference Isp's. If anyone wants this, feel free to fill in the blanks. Documentation is given here: Extras/RationalResourcesRCSFamily @CessnaSkyhawk I've finished setting up Nuclear Family for grabs via CKAN, including a README with sufficient documentation. Feel free to PR and update te opt-in config here anytime. It will be available when I post a release. Edited October 21, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 Release 1.30 DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock Assorted and consolidated extras into mod (sub) folders for more CKAN compatibility. Updated RationalResourcesNuclearFamily to: Apply 20% Isp buff to LOX mode on tagged atomic rockets. This mod conflicts with KerbalAtomicsLH2NTRModSupport. Have complete Classic Stock compatibility. Updated RationalResourcesRCSFamily to: Handle all integration of RCS parts, especially the stock ones. This is no longer partially contained/forced by RationalResourcesCompanion. Have complete Classic Stock compatibility. Have some RealFuels compatibility. Properly calculate SL Isp. Created RationalResourcesTACLS to contain any and all TAC LS configs. Updated TAC LS integration for Airline Kuisine: Air Filter now only extracts Nitrogen, Oxygen and Water, and not everything provided to typical RR atmo harvesters. Updated TAC LS integration for SSPXr following the template style complete rewrite done for, and released in, SSPXr itself. Updated RationalResourcesSquad to: Add fuel switching to the Panther, Whiplash, Rapier; Classic Stock supported. Contain the MoreTankSwitches config that supports various parts mods/ their agencies Contain the TankswitchFusionFuel config that adds Deuterium & Helium-3 options to Squad tanks and CryoTanks. Minor adjustments to OmniConverters options. Fixed missing flow mode parameter on ElectricCharge. Changed convert ratio on WBI ElectroPlasma to ElectricCharge from 1:8 to 1:20. CKAN metadata update @HebaruSan @linuxgurugamer Hi again. I've created mod folders under the Extras folder in the RR download and I'd like to have them seen by CKAN too. RationalResourcesAluminium name: Rational Resources Aluminium abstract: Enables Aluminium in RR's Ore tanks, instead of Metal in RR's converters, and instead of Metal in the demo hybrid SRBs. tags: config depends: RationalResourcesCompanion RationalResourcesBlacksmith name: Rational Resources Blacksmith abstract: Enables the stock science lab (with engineers) to refill or transfer non-transferrable resources without plugins or cheaty techniques. tags: config, convenience depends: RationalResourcesCompanion suggests: ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads RationalResourcesNuclearFamily name: Rational Resources Nuclear Family abstract: Enables fuel switching and Kerbalism radioactivity in supported NTRs. Enables supported NTJs to have Kerbalism radioactivity and the features expected of a nuclear reactor. tags: config, convenience suggests: ClassicStockResources, KerbalAtomics, RecycledPartsAtomicAge, conflicts: KerbalAtomics-NTRModSupport RationalResourcesRCSFamily name: Rational Resources RCS Family abstract: Enables fuel switching in supported MonoPropellant or LFO RCS. tags: config, convenience suggests: ClassicStockResources conflicts: KiwiTechTree RationalResourcesSSPXRTanks name: Rational Resources SSPXR Tanks abstract: Adds RR Ore tank options to SSPXR's payload tanks. tags: config depends: RationalResources, StationPartsExpansionRedux RationalResourcesSquad name: Rational Resources Squad abstract: Provides fuel switching in the stock tanks, the stock jet engines, and expands CryoTanks options. tags: config, convenience depends: RationalResources conflicts: RealFuels, ModularFuelTanks RationalResourcesTACLS name: Rational Resources TAC LS abstract: Changes TAC converters in supported mods to produce less abstract Waste resource and more of what is in it that is useful to other mods. tags: config, convenience depends: RationalResources, TACLS suggests: AirlineKuisine, StationPartsExpansionRedux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garwel Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Hey @JadeOfMaar, great to see a big update for RR. I'm wondering about RationalResourcesNuclearFamily and KerbalAtomics-NTRModSupport: what is the difference between these two options? Do they support the same mods? Will switching from the latter to the former cause any issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) Hey @garwel. I'm glad you like. KA's support is pretty manual and finely tuned (each engine is given precise Isp curves and a setup of audio and plumes) and only provides Hydrogen for the primary mode or propellant (and takes care of any LANTR among them). RR Nuclear Family doesn't provide cosmetic changes but it causes each engine to become twins; two parts: One that can switch between a handful of propellants that contain Oxygen (Water, CO2, even Carbon Monxide) and one that can switch between deoxygenated propellants (Hydrogen, Ammonia, Methane, Nitrogen) via B9PS. If that engine is bimodal then the secondary mode of the twin engines is sure to be Lox-Augmented. RR Nuclear Family also attempts to scale the Isp of each propellant against the engine's original Isp (so the better and best engine among a bunch of them will remain the better and best, respectively, after patching), and will scale thrust (to some degree) against the difference between Isp's. The only issues you'll experience by switching over are: If you have a very sharp eye for engine performance and a particular engine gets lower Hydrogen Isp from RR than it did from KA; RRNF doesn't currently target all of the engines targeted by KA. (This is easily fixed. All that you have to do is tag them. RR's opt-in system has all the logic in it for MM to do the bulk of the work.) tl'dr: KA support has manual configs and provides plumes and sounds to engines but only provides for Hydrogen as propellant. RRNF doesn't provide plumes and sounds but clones engines and allows them to choose various propellants (each with buffs or debuffs in Isp and thrust) and is scripted so you just have to tag engines if you want them to be compatible. RRNF also provides for atomic jets in case you're an atomic aircraft kind of guy. Edited October 22, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joontry Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Hello. Thank you for your work on this mod. I am getting a fatal error on startup of ksp related to B9 partswitch and explodium being missing as a resource. I have a fresh install of KSP 1.12.2 with JNSQ and a bunch of other mods, but I've found that I only have a problem starting the game when the latest release of Rational Resources is installed. Has anyone else had this problem or found a solution? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightlaw Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 9:08 PM, Joontry said: Hello. Thank you for your work on this mod. I am getting a fatal error on startup of ksp related to B9 partswitch and explodium being missing as a resource. I have a fresh install of KSP 1.12.2 with JNSQ and a bunch of other mods, but I've found that I only have a problem starting the game when the latest release of Rational Resources is installed. Has anyone else had this problem or found a solution? Thank you If you have Far Future Technology installed remove it. That was the only way I got the game to load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joontry Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 hours ago, Lightlaw said: If you have Far Future Technology installed remove it. That was the only way I got the game to load. Thank you. That worked. I can't give up FFT for RR though. FFT is too cool. Hopefully there is a way to make them compatible in KSP 1.12.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Kerman Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 6:08 PM, Joontry said: Hello. Thank you for your work on this mod. I am getting a fatal error on startup of ksp related to B9 partswitch and explodium being missing as a resource. I have a fresh install of KSP 1.12.2 with JNSQ and a bunch of other mods, but I've found that I only have a problem starting the game when the latest release of Rational Resources is installed. Has anyone else had this problem or found a solution? Thank you Do you have Classic Stock Resources? It's the only mod I know of which adds Explodium as a resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joontry Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Calvin Kerman said: Do you have Classic Stock Resources? It's the only mod I know of which adds Explodium as a resource. Thank you! So I removed Classic Stock Resources and now I am able to start the 1.12.2 JNSQ game successfully with both Rational Resources and Far Future Technologies installed without any fatal errors. I still have Community Resource Pack and didn't really care too much about Classic Stock Resources, so I am good to go! Edited November 1, 2021 by Joontry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstuff Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 11:43 PM, jefferyharrell said: That would explain it: I didn't have Parts installed. I'll fix that next time I play. Thanks! Hi Folks, I have the boxed compressor but can't convert Carbon Dioxide to LqdCarbonDioxide. I used just RR Parts and Cryo Tanks and B9... no option I saw. Then I tried WBI's one part, and it tells me LqdCO2 is full, even though I have the cryotanks set to LqdCO2 and totally empty. Then I tried Interstellar, and was able to use the Refridgerator part to convert LqdCO2, but would prefer not to use KSP-I and get into MW and all that. Does anybody have a setup of addons that works without KSP-I? Or am I missing a step? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderstuff Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 On 11/5/2021 at 7:33 PM, thunderstuff said: Hi Folks, I have the boxed compressor but can't convert Carbon Dioxide to LqdCarbonDioxide. I used just RR Parts and Cryo Tanks and B9... no option I saw. Then I tried WBI's one part, and it tells me LqdCO2 is full, even though I have the cryotanks set to LqdCO2 and totally empty. Then I tried Interstellar, and was able to use the Refridgerator part to convert LqdCO2, but would prefer not to use KSP-I and get into MW and all that. Does anybody have a setup of addons that works without KSP-I? Or am I missing a step? Thanks! The only way I got the Decompressor to offer different options than other ISRUs was to install Kerbalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossconfig Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 I was hoping to get this mod to replace far future technologies janky space dust isru system, but I got the b9 spam and a bunch of fatal tweakscale errors. Is there any hope for some far future integration? There's a lot of parts that are cool in that mod, tieing it to this comprehensive of an isru mod is very attractive, but I'm not savy enough to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted November 19, 2021 Author Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) On 11/5/2021 at 7:33 PM, thunderstuff said: I used just RR Parts and Cryo Tanks and B9... no option I saw. Uh, it would seem that I really messed up, and the boxed compressor and decompressor have all the wrong options! Delete this section from this file to fix it: 00_ConvertOTrons_Opt-in.cfg, lines 18 ~ 23 On 11/16/2021 at 8:45 PM, Mossconfig said: I was hoping to get this mod to replace far future technologies janky space dust isru system, but I got the b9 spam and a bunch of fatal tweakscale errors. Is there any hope for some far future integration? There's a lot of parts that are cool in that mod, tieing it to this comprehensive of an isru mod is very attractive, but I'm not savy enough to do it. Sorry. I've decided to have no business at all with Space Dust. But it should be easy enough for you to get things done if you get around the B9 problem. Fundamentally, what you do is to patch out the Space Dust specific harvester modules, then patch it into RR via the extremely simple to use technique in the opt-in configs here (whichever is appropriate to each part). Edited November 19, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 So to clarify this does work with Real Fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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