totm june 2019 Breaking ground - Test Zone

[sgt_flyer]

26 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

Nice work matey! I'm really digging these new moving parts. What visual mods are you using?

The classics - planetshine, scatterer, EVE and realplume

 

[Klapaucius]

On 5/31/2019 at 12:08 PM, klond said:

 I did a pogo stick.  It's manual operation though.

You just made my morning!  That's hilarious.  Awesome!

[Triop]

Pretty strong hinges...

 

[Klapaucius]

3 hours ago, Triop said:

Pretty strong hinges...

 

It just occurred to me that a really useful part would be some sort of pile that drives into the ground and secures something like your ride above.

[Mr. Speed]

I built a simple VTOL as a test.

Spoiler

 

[Tyr Anasazi]

So, to answer a few questions:

• Is it possible to build a supersonic prop aircraft using BG DLC Parts?
  • YES - but they need tons of electricity
• Is it possible to stack rotors to get moar power? -
  • YES
• When stacking rotors, can you overcome the 477 RPM physics limit? 
  • NO, you just get more torque and have to deal with Kraken
• Do stock props still look as ridiculous as they did before?
  • YES.

[Majorjim!]

12 hours ago, sgt_flyer said:

The classics - planetshine, scatterer, EVE and realplume

 

Do you use stock EVE or SVE too?

[Flying dutchman]

Helicopters are great now though

[Azimech]

13 minutes ago, Flying dutchman said:

Helicopters are great now though

The DLC is the reason I probably won't be building helicopters or planes anymore. Only release what was already on the shelf.

Interesting movement on this useless contraption.

https://gfycat.com/sharpfavoriteannelida

[Flying dutchman]

21 minutes ago, Azimech said:

The DLC is the reason I probably won't be building helicopters or planes anymore. Only release what was already on the shelf.

Interesting movement on this useless contraption.

https://gfycat.com/sharpfavoriteannelida

You could still build planes without dlc parts. Its still more impressive.

[Wilcz]

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Wilcz

[Thor Wotansen]

13 minutes ago, Wilcz said:

 

 

It would be trivial to program that with a KAL 1000.  You gave me some ideas though, so thanks

[sgt_flyer]

2 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

Do you use stock EVE or SVE too?

stock EVE

[Majorjim!]

50 minutes ago, sgt_flyer said:

stock EVE

Thanks mate

[sgt_flyer]

robotic arm direct manipulation is not easy, even with the DLC for manipulating payloads (difficult to do manually, even with mapping some angles)

i guess the better way will be to set up 3 Kal-1000's to take care of the movements from stowed position to payload position, undock the payload then from there place the payload on it's final position. then a last Kal-1000 to return  the arm to stowed position (could even be useful for a station based permanent arm - map the arm's servos and hinges to one or several Kals, then you just need to input the values in the Kal's editor (if you planned beforehand in editor the upcoming mission)

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by sgt_flyer

[MaianTrey]

1 hour ago, sgt_flyer said:

robotic arm direct manipulation is not easy, even with the DLC for manipulating payloads (difficult to do manually, even with mapping some angles)

i guess the better way will be to set up 3 Kal-1000's to take care of the movements from stowed position to payload position, undock the payload then from there place the payload on it's final position. then a last Kal-1000 to return  the arm to stowed position (could even be useful for a station based permanent arm - map the arm's servos and hinges to one or several Kals, then you just need to input the values in the Kal's editor (if you planned beforehand in editor the upcoming mission)

Have you bound them to axis groups on different sets? Like for my first draft of the orbiter-mounted Canadarm, I bound in Action Set 1 the shoulder pitch and yaw joints to Pitch and Yaw (WS, AD) and the elbow joint to roll. Then the LEE's 3 joints to the three translation keys (HN, JL, IK). They are set to override default control groups so it doesn't pitch the whole craft. Set the translation to 1.0, and use fine control (caps lock) and you can get pretty good manipulation. Just a little time consuming when putting it in action.

When you put commands in alternate Action Sets, an icon shows up in the default toolbar area in flight that allows you to switch between them at the click of a button.

The main issue I'm having is the part-clipping. I've tried putting the end effector docking part as a separate craft that's tied in with Barometer experiments around a gravioli detector (so a hinge, but with no rotation allowed). It seems pretty good for maneuvering, but haven't tried the docking part of it just yet.

Edited June 2, 2019 by MaianTrey

[Shadow dream]

Been trying to build the Osprey.

Now that I won't have to mess with vehicle switching, broken bearings and other failiours that randomly occur .... now I have to mess with the power output I get.

Spoiler

She does fly with the rotors upright. I stacked two (heavy and normal) rotors to boost rpm as far as possible, but the +1 TWR thrust won't take over to level flight. It might be some weight balance issue (the more I level the engines, the more she pitches up), but the more I set thrust to level flight for acceleration, the more I lose lift and ultimately nosedive the entire thing into the ground.

I think I'll try the MK3 parts next because they look more like the real thing, but also that's weight I have to control even harder. We'll see.........

Edit: I also want the folding mechanism

Spoiler

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Shadow dream

[sgt_flyer]

29 minutes ago, MaianTrey said:

Have you bound them to axis groups on different sets? Like for my first draft of the orbiter-mounted Canadarm, I bound in Action Set 1 the shoulder pitch and yaw joints to Pitch and Yaw (WS, AD) and the elbow joint to roll. Then the LEE's 3 joints to the three translation keys (HN, JL, IK). They are set to override default control groups so it doesn't pitch the whole craft. Set the translation to 1.0, and use fine control (caps lock) and you can get pretty good manipulation. Just a little time consuming when putting it in action.

When you put commands in alternate Action Sets, an icon shows up in the default toolbar area in flight that allows you to switch between them at the click of a button.

The main issue I'm having is the part-clipping. I've tried putting the end effector docking part as a separate craft that's tied in with Barometer experiments around a gravioli detector (so a hinge, but with no rotation allowed). It seems pretty good for maneuvering, but haven't tried the docking part of it just yet.

Yes, self docking's the problem  it's... a bit too random... you sometime see magnetism kick in and pull on the arm, you go a bit too far, magnetism disappear and you need to save and reload to retry

I'm rebuilding from scratch an orbiter, going to test precomputing the arm's movements with a Kal to see if it's more reliable

funnily enough, my original canadarm (before breaking ground robotics - the thing decoupled into 3 parts with various types of joints) was easier to manage :p (even with vessel switching ^^)

[Triop]

Finished the Frisbee https://kerbalx.com/Triop/Frisbee

Working on something new :

[Servo]

9 hours ago, Azimech said:

The DLC is the reason I probably won't be building helicopters or planes anymore. Only release what was already on the shelf.

Interesting movement on this useless contraption.

https://gfycat.com/sharpfavoriteannelida

I hope that you'll reconsider. Before I got the DLC, I was very much on the side of the "get off my lawn" people like you and myself who have been doing stock mechanisms for years. After only a few hours of messing with it, I can tell you that it did the two following things:
1. Lowered the barrier to entry for new people. More people messing around with mechanisms of any type means more people will be curious and engineer some fantastic creations
2. Opened up a whole new world for experienced players. You can still do very complex, impressive things with the DLC. In fact, I can see a hundred new things you can do with the DLC that I'd never dream of doing with the stock game.

I'll share my experiments with the DLC (about 6-7 hours of messing around) to show you (and everyone else) some of the things you can do now.

Skynet 1 was my first DLC craft. A simple robotic arm to transfer a fuel tank from one position to the other. This allowed me to familiarize myself with the parts, as well as figure out how the heck to program actions with the controller. With a single click of an action group, I set up a sequence of events to pick up the tank and move it, requiring me to only drop the tank at the end.

Skynet 2 was an attempt at a propeller craft. From my assessment, given the torque output of these things, for single-engine and small planes, classic stock props are still going to be king. This thing just flipped itself up on one wing and rolled around instead of flying.

Skynet 3 was my first successful plane. A simple swing wing, using a trick I found with the controllers to make reversible action sequences on one action group (put both the "run sequence" and "reverse direction" on the same group). I later experimented with using servos to make control surfaces, and given their success (the trick is to use the "absolute" deploy mode, rather than the "incremental one"), I think that true all-moving stabilators are back on the menu. Stacking fins was effective, but not elegant.

Skynet 4 was a simple experiment with landing gear. I could get it to deploy, but it needs a controller to have landing gear bay doors, because wheels collide with parts of the same craft again.

Skynet 3, again: Here's where things get interesting. Each of the three SAS wheels are connected together (two by attachment nodes, one by struts). This means that they form a proper linkage, and move as such. The implications of this are absolutely massive, as you're about to see: 

I took a step back from my naming convention to name this Strandbeest, as it is a functioning* Jansen walking linkage. As in, it moves, but isn't strong enough to walk, and goes wacky really easily. Still, you can make really complex linkages using the DLC. For example...

A Helicopter Swashplate. This has controls the pitch of the rotors in the exact same way a real swashplate does, by way of the linkages mentioned earlier, and some tricky placement of hinges, servos without motors, and struts. This system (along with a trimmable tail rotor) allows control in all three axes of flight, in addition to moving the swashplate up and down to control total lift (so you can alter ascent rate without touching the throttle). A bit more practice or tuning, and we can make a fully controllable helicopter with an accurate control scheme (and less than 100 parts)

 

[Azimech]

@Servoyes the DLC adds some interesting opportunities. Instead of using the DLC for planes and helicopters I will use it for other things. I've been a master in both for almost 5 years, it's time to let it go.

We might need a new engine (Unreal?) for this because joints continue to be a friggin' wreck in Unity. Anyway ... I'll be focusing more on piston engines now. It's my deepest love.

[JERONIMO]

Posted it but here we go again.

my personal car-o-rotor 3000.

poor quality after the editing software, but you get the idea.

[sgt_flyer]

@MaianTrey

i tested the docking part of your solution (with the separate end effector)

It seems it's not enough for self docking (ex : docking the arm to the payload still attached in the shuttle's bay).

the moment the separate end effector comes into magnetism range, it bends the robotic arm, so when the end effector docks, the robotic arm start swinging around (as it can now clip through the end effector's cage)

i'm going to try out using a end effector made of two separate parts - the middle one will stay separate during operation (except when stowing the arm) - so when the end effector docks, the middle part should prevent the arm from clipping through everything.

 

[Ultimate Steve]

I tried making some robotic arms, but due to docking bugs, lack of rigidity, and clipping, they are not at all practical to use.

Thing Attacher 3 in action on STS-3. The mission was to grab the fuel pod, rotate it around and re-dock it, and then release it. However, whenever I got it docked (I basically had to release it and let the magnets do the work due to docking bugs) neither docking port would display the undock option. After retrying several times, I decided to just jettison the pod.

 

[MaianTrey]

@sgt_flyer

That's probably a little simpler solution than what I was thinking of, because I was assuming that would be the issue (once docked, it would all be the same vessel, and clip apart). I was thinking of a way to mimic the stowage system in the orbiter - some krakentech-style hold-points that would hold it in place after disconnecting the payload from the orbiter to keep it a second vessel. It could be as simple as an extra set of RCS balls on the payload, and half-open hinges on the orbiter closed off by BG hinges that you can open after docking. But all this seems more complicated than just using the krakentech Canadarm!