Please add the Option to switch to a Real Solar System without mods in KSP 2

[kerbalk]

I think Squad and the other KSP2 Devs should make it Possible to turn on a sort of RSS without the Mod. I hopse they do this sometime.

[SpaceFace545]

no they shouldn't

[kerbalk]

Why not?

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by kerbalk

[Xd the great]

1 hour ago, kerbalk said:

I think Squad and the other KSP2 Devs should make it Possible to turn on a sort of RSS without the Mod. I hopse they do this sometime.

I like this idea, but just scale up the planets. Let MOAR BOOSTERS cover the rest.

[Francois424]

Personally I'd be fine with a Kerbal-sized RSS as a stock option, but not with the insane size.... That's best left for a mod and it's not like it won't happen anyways.
You can be sure a mod will get made at some point.

However, having played in RSS recently, I feel that the fantasy look-alike is more fun (except from the fact that it's missing everything past Jool, again barring the superb OPM mod).
Whatever happens, I'm fine with.

[The Aziz]

Because so far, all parts in ksp are balanced to work on stock, small system. As far as I know, you need quite a few mods along with RSS to fly anywhere.

Same thing is probably going to happen to new game. Sure we get interstellar travel, so we'll be covering lightyears, but you'd still have problems launching your mothership with stock parts on Earth.

I mean, lifters needing 9k m/s d-v are Eve range, and you don't build these very often (and with huge payload at the top)

[pandaman]

I don't expect it to be in tbe base game, but I like the idea of options for scaling up the stock system and/or swapping it for a 'real' solar system at a choice of scales, but yes i think the max size should be limited to what 'works' for stock parts.  Could be a good DLC though.

I tried the HalfRSS mod a while ago which seemed about the upper limit for stock parts.

[mattinoz]

Per save game systems and mods would be a great feature to lay the ground work for it first release.

Agree with others. Keep options limited to start but a same scale Earth analogue system would be great to extend the replay value / learning / challenge.

 

[SpaceFace545]

21 hours ago, kerbalk said:

Why not?

 

just cause

[Superfluous J]

22 hours ago, kerbalk said:

Why not?

 

Because they would have to rebalance the entire new game for a mode that they specifically chose to not use for very good reasons, doing a TON of work that is far better placed elsewhere.

Mods don't need balance and art and bug testing. Let them handle the fringe cases.

[Guest]

Would also need a complete parts rebalance. @KerikBalm plays with only a 3x scaled system and he’s complaining about balance all the time. 

So no, this is a perfect scenario for modding. They can give it the attention it deserves.

[Bej Kerman]

On 11/4/2019 at 1:36 AM, SpaceFace545 said:

no they shouldn't

They meant as a toggle. You can't just say 'no' and give no reason to say 'no'.

[KerikBalm]

13 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Would also need a complete parts rebalance. @KerikBalm plays with only a 3x scaled system and he’s complaining about balance all the time. 

Oh come on, I don't complain about balance that much, I say that 1x is quite easy, and parts are pretty well balanced at 3x scale. My 3x designs are all stock, except for life support, which I didn't bother with after 1.7.

You would definitely need to rebalance parts for RSS.

* Mostly I complain about the rapier's Isp curve, which just seems mismatched with the obvious situations where you use Rapiers in closed cycle.

I was still making rapier only SSTOs in 3x, so its not a balance complaint related to the scale.

Plus I moved on to recoverable 2 stage designs, adjusting to the stats as they are, using Rapiers closed cycle sparingly, just to boost to a high enough AP, given rapiers are pretty good for TWR in closed cycle compared to whiplashes and... lets say vectors. The low Isp doesn't matter so much if you aren't trying to get a lot of dV from them.

[Guest]

They should just make planet modding easy, without requiring a plugin. Given that multiple star systems are going to be a thing, it makes sense to allow people to add new ones without too much fuss.

[MechBFP]

I personally think it would be a very good sales tactic, to be able to start on Kerbal, or for more advanced players start with the real solar system instead 

It would certainly entice existing players of KSP1 with more of a reason to buy KSP2.

It also massively changes gameplay due to the requirement to use cryogenic engines, etc, and almost REQUIRES interstellar drives to do manned missions to almost any other body.

I really hope they consider it, if not out of the game then as a DLC.

I never got into RSS with KSP1 because it is just so damn janky since KSP isn’t really designed for that size of solar system.

[Kerbart]

4 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I personally think it would be a very good sales tactic, to be able to start on Kerbal, or for more advanced players start with the real solar system instead 

That hinges on a couple of assumptions that do not necessarily hold up:

• Gameplay is more fun when it is more challenging. Not everyone agrees with that, and this certainly would fall in the “more realism for the sake of more realism” reasoning. More realistic isn’t always better. A smaller system with smaller planets means faster to/from orbit times for instance. I don’t need my launch-to-orbit times to double, and I’m sure I’m not the only ones
• Advanced players need a more challenging environment. 
• A real sized solar system addresses the need for realism

4 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

It would certainly entice existing players of KSP1 with more of a reason to buy KSP2.
 

Given the need to rebalance the entire portfolio of parts (which certainly will be larger than it is in version 1), will the investment required be worth “enticing” the existing player base?

If it increases sales by 5% but drives development cost up with 10% the proposal is less of a no-brainer.

4 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

It also massively changes gameplay due to the requirement to use cryogenic engines, etc, and almost REQUIRES interstellar drives to do manned missions to almost any other body.

I really hope they consider it, if not out of the game then as a DLC.

I never got into RSS with KSP1 because it is just so damn janky since KSP isn’t really designed for that size of solar system.

So, I think the real request should be: “make it easy to mod the universe without the need for something like Kopernicus”

I have nothing against Kopernicus, what I mean is that not needing a mod to change the planets will surely improve reliability (if only because there’s less mods to clash with each other)

[NoMrBond]

I think some advanced toggles for difficulty (given their own statements regarding the ease of system modification via LUA) would be nice

Give the sliders a disclaimer for what they're going to do to (system/balance wise), but it would up to players (and would enable players) to choose how they want to play the game which I can't see as a bad thing

Maybe even offer some value presets (like 3.2x, unless I'm remembering incorrectly that seemed popular)

[mattinoz]

6 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Oh come on, I don't complain about balance that much, I say that 1x is quite easy, and parts are pretty well balanced at 3x scale. My 3x designs are all stock, except for life support, which I didn't bother with after 1.7.

You would definitely need to rebalance parts for RSS.

* Mostly I complain about the rapier's Isp curve, which just seems mismatched with the obvious situations where you use Rapiers in closed cycle.

I was still making rapier only SSTOs in 3x, so its not a balance complaint related to the scale.

Plus I moved on to recoverable 2 stage designs, adjusting to the stats as they are, using Rapiers closed cycle sparingly, just to boost to a high enough AP, given rapiers are pretty good for TWR in closed cycle compared to whiplashes and... lets say vectors. The low Isp doesn't matter so much if you aren't trying to get a lot of dV from them.

Do you think they would need to balance by changing parts or do you think it could done mostly with scaling all parts (including Kerbals themselves). Then use the change in scale to make the Progress mode more challenging instead of making "funds/Science" harder to come by like the current game.

So say :-

medium game - x2.5 system with parts and rewards scale of x1.25 (x2 effective)

hard game - x5 with parts and rewards scale of x1.5 (x3.3 effective)

"real" hard - x10 (real) with parts and rewards of x2.0 (x5 effective) given Kerbals seem about half our height.

[Incarnation of Chaos]

I think people are really overblowing the difficulty of balancing these larger systems, the easiest brute-force option is to have a set of config files that are loaded via whatever module manager analogue they've implemented depending on the save settings. You just patch the same set of parts to bring their performance and mass ratios in line with the selected settings, this is what we already do in KSP1 for the most part.

I think the much more insightful discussion lies in the question of if it's worth actually spending development time on a feature few would use, and not everyone would like or agree with the choices made for balance or realism. People tend to forget just how darn configurable KSP is, how much effort modders take to make their mods just as if not more configurable, and how it's taken years for it to reach that point. At the moment you can download and configure a suite of mods to make your game exactly how you want, within reason.

Would a hastily implemented RSS do the same? Doubtful. KSP2 is supposed to make this level of modification even easier, so it stands to reason that if KSP2 proves to be the game we've been promised that we'll likely see superior versions of all of these mods within time. And they'll run better to boot.

[AVaughan]

10 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

They should just make planet modding easy, without requiring a plugin. Given that multiple star systems are going to be a thing, it makes sense to allow people to add new ones without too much fuss.

Yeah.  That pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter.  Built in support for mods that add/changing solar systems (including setting which planet you start on) would be more valuable than adding RSS.

[MechBFP]

19 hours ago, Kerbart said:

So, I think the real request should be: “make it easy to mod the universe without the need for something like Kopernicus”

That is nice, but unfortunately it doesn’t provide the production values that the real solar system would get from the devs. Not that modders can’t do a good job, but it will be years before we get a RSS mod that would be the same quality.

I am hoping one of the solar systems you can visit with interstellar travel is actually the real solar system.

Then it is just a matter of writing a mod to start on Earth instead and work out the balance issues, which should be much quicker than creating all the art assets.

EDIT: Even if the devs provided a scaled down real solar system for balance purpose, it should still be a lot less work to scale it back up. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by MechBFP

[DStaal]

I think RSS would make a great DLC (in conjunction with NASA?), but I don't think it should be in the base game.

[kerbalk]

I didn't mean in KSP 1 i meant like in KSP 2 or a DLC. Since there not that far (Only about 1/8ths done), i'd say its pretty easy to be done, but ive never made a Game before. I was thinking more of a Toggle or somthing like that. And to solve the problem with Stock parts, they make Bigger Counterparts for this RSS.

And i'd rather not have it require Mods, cause i didn't get Mods until about 300 Hours in and i have 650. I'd say (In KSP 2 only cause the Devs would have to make an entirely new game on the game that exists already, and KSP 2 is indeed in Development), no Mods, just like in the Advanced Options menu when you Start a Game in KSP 1.

Didn't know this Topic was so Popular.

[kerbalk]

And plus, Mods like RSS aren't exactly a Piece of Cake to install. I tried Via CKAN, and it didnt work, and theres so many Dependencies and Other mods that make it Real, that its really Stupid to try Yourself, without CKAN.

[Skorj]

A full RSS and Realism Overhaul is exactly the sort of thing I'd be happy to see as DLC.  Of all the ways to "monetize" KSP2, I hope they go the way of complex alternative ways to play the game.  RSS is the "new game plus" of KSP, after all.