Mars Rover Perseverance Discussion Thread

[tater]

Better link:

https://mars.nasa.gov/news/8956/nasas-curiosity-rover-captures-shining-clouds-on-mars/?site=msl

https://mars.nasa.gov/system/downloadable_items/46162_1-PIA24622-Curiosity_Spots_Clouds_over_Mont_Mercou.png

Curiosity home page: https://mars.nasa.gov/msl/home/

Edited June 2, 2021 by tater

[SpaceFace545]

Looks like Arizona 

[Starhelperdude]

5 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Looks like Arizona 

I drank it

[Codraroll]

18 hours ago, bearnard1244 said:

An interesting video about Perseverance and Mars soil. That one kilogram of Mars soil will have an amazing price tag, but also an incredible value. Much more than 1 kilogram of pure cocaine)

I mean, it would probably be much easier to get hold of one kilogram of cocaine (after all, there exists a supply chain) than one kilogram of Mars soil, so that's not entirely surprising.

From a purely economic standpoint, its high cost wouldn't matter much, though. I remember once reading an article (or was it a forum post?) that did the math and found out that even if the Martian surface were scattered with gold bars of the purest quality,  we'd still lose money if we tried to go there and take some back to Earth. I think that's even true if the gold bars were on the Moon.

Hm, come to think of it, if the Moon had been full of gold bars, the price of gold would probably plummet because of the potential disruption of the market that would happen if anyone were to find a way to to make lunar gold shipping cost-effective.

[Scotius]

Gold does have industrial uses. Producers of electronics would very much like to have access to plentiful gold supply.

[kerbiloid]

It's full of perchlorates, so it's a bad idea to inhale it.

Vice versa, they should avoid direct contact as possible.

(I'm about the Martian ground).

[YNM]

21 hours ago, bearnard1244 said:

An interesting video about Perseverance and Mars soil. That one kilogram of Mars soil will have an amazing price tag, but also an incredible value.

Given that some of us are planning to actually be there one day and change the landscape completely I think it's safe to say it might be priceless - both in that it helps us in doing that, and it might be among those that'd remain pristine.

[snkiz]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

It's full of perchlorates, so it's a bad idea to inhale it.

Most scientists greatly exarate the danger there. Perchlorates are bad like smoking is bad. Ya it will likely kill you, but not for a very long time.

[YNM]

Just now, snkiz said:

Perchlorates are bad like smoking is bad. Ya it will likely kill you, but not for a very long time.

... you do realize smoking kills you slowly right ? If it's faster than that (as implied by "not for a very long time") then it's even more dangerous.

[snkiz]

I think that is what I said. I forget not everyone speaks english. I should be more specific. The reality is everything can kill you if there's enough of it and you wait long enough. So why let that be a barrier?

[GuessingEveryDay]

I don't know if something has changed in the last 5 years about perchlorates, but this video gives a good view on perchlorates. Perchlorates only take up 0.6 percent of Martian soil.

 

[kerbiloid]

What the Percy should really have (instead of those stupid nerdish toys).

Spoiler

 

(A potato planting device).

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

4 hours ago, YNM said:

... you do realize smoking kills you slowly right ? If it's faster than that (as implied by "not for a very long time") then it's even more dangerous.

Smoking kills one third of its users - at least according to this 

 

 

[YNM]

4 hours ago, snkiz said:

The reality is everything can kill you if there's enough of it and you wait long enough. So why let that be a barrier?

9 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Smoking kills one third of its users

Perhaps not quite "not for a very long time" but "probably only cuts off a few years off your lifespan".

Even then if you don't die but you live in suffering through reduced Quality of Life it's not great. That's why I said earlier that we're most likely going to change the landscape there forever, make it easier for us to live, and then those 'pristine' samples would be rare simply because it is not there anymore, not just that it's so far away.

Edited June 9, 2021 by YNM

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

30 minutes ago, YNM said:

you live in suffering through reduced Quality of Life it's not great. 

Even this old saw is losing its appeal.  Talk to people who intensely work with the geriatric community - and you will find folks admitting that past a certain age - it's probably better to encourage them to drink and smoke with friends, because isolation is a higher predictor of early death than either.  (Often times, people who smoke are more socially active than not) 

I know we are supposed to be talking about perchlorates - but the 'smoking kills you' crew over played their hand and over legislated to the point of moving past scientific reason into religious fervor.  Much like the anti-nuke activists stoking fears of radiation. 

So when you start talking about substances that 'it will kill you' along with 'don't do [something]' or 'don't go there' ... I start thinking 'how much, how fast, is there a genetic component where 2/3 are fine, what is the risk balanced against?' 

So - while we know that the atmosphere will require PPE to be worn outside - is there something about perchlorates that would prevent a mere shower from resolving the problem of dust tracked into the habitat? 

Edited June 9, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[snkiz]

1 minute ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Even this old saw is losing its appeal... 

Yup at a certain point in your life it doesn't matter anymore. You'll be healthier just staying social and happy. As a member of the yellow ribbon club I agree.

[tater]

From Ingenuity.

 

Related to smoking:

Spoiler

My wife (a doc) says anti-smoking needs to stop talking about death (though people are apparently terrified at utterly unconcering risk level in the last year, so maybe this is no longer true), and do the following:

Ads aimed at women should point out that smoking increases wrinkles.

Ads aimed at men should tell them smoking reduces blood circulation... how to put this on a family forum... they might want to avoid prescriptions for expensive, blue pills.

 

LOL, this got me thinking... related to other risks:

Back in the 80s that's when people worried about dieting. If they could pinch an inch. Imagine that NOW. I can see more obese people in one trip to CostCo than I saw during my entire childhood, combined.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by tater

[HvP]

6 hours ago, Scotius said:

Gold does have industrial uses. Producers of electronics would very much like to have access to plentiful gold supply.

Indeed.

There's a reason that gold is so often used in space hardware. High electrical conductivity, chemically inert, reflects radiation across a broad spectrum, easily malleable, non-toxic, won't oxidize or corrode. It's almost perfect for a wide range of industrial uses except that it's high density makes is very heavy - which actually makes it a good radiation shield for spacecraft, too.

In my opinion, gold's prominence as a decoration and currency is the least interesting thing about it (and one of the most depressing revelations about humanity.)

But that's off topic.

I've always been skeptical of any pursuit to mine elements on other worlds, except for local use on those worlds. Whatever the concentrations of those elements on Mars, the only reason to go there and bring them back is if there is a real shortage of the element here in the first place.

Edited June 9, 2021 by HvP

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

10 minutes ago, HvP said:

is if there is a real shortage of the element here in the first place.

But there is - just take a peek at the table of elements. 

For comparison - we mine more iron in one year than all of humanity has ever mined gold 

So the solution is to go more places to find the readily available gold and ignore the stuff that is easy to find here. 

[kerbiloid]

 

Spoiler

  

37 minutes ago, tater said:

Ads aimed at men should tell them smoking reduces blood circulation... how to put this on a family forum... they might want to avoid prescriptions for expensive, blue pills.

Several days ago the new Russian anti-Covid vaccine (not Sputnik) was reported as improving the (this blood circulation) among vaccinated mice.

 

[HvP]

33 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

we mine more iron in one year than all of humanity has ever mined gold

Ok, but the vast majority of all the gold we have ever mined is tied up in jewelry and bullion - about 75%. Only about ten percent of all the gold floating around the world's economy is used for actual practical purposes like engineering.

If we truly have a gold shortage for industrial purposes then you can blame the "it's so shiny" crowd for that. Although, part of me would love to flood that market with cheap gold, and see their baubles become nearly worthless overnight.

Edited June 9, 2021 by HvP

[YNM]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Talk to people who intensely work with the geriatric community - and you will find folks admitting that past a certain age - it's probably better to encourage them to drink and smoke with friends, because isolation is a higher predictor of early death than either.  (Often times, people who smoke are more socially active than not) 

Yeah, I'll admit that, when QoL is naturally decreasing anyway it's difficult to think of it as being any much worse than natural progression. I don't complain on those honestly, the problem is where I live we're known for smoking from very young ages, and that's where it goes wrong. (that being said I won't ever complain for field workers who smokes, it's a tough job.)

Anyway just to remind what I was saying is just that we'd naturally remove stuff that's on Martian environment if we find we can't live with them - low atmo pressure, any sort of radiation, toxic compounds etc. ; Mars after any sort of human colony lands there is going to be extremely different than the one the rovers drove around, at least on the small scale (or global scale).

1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

So the solution is to go more places to find the readily available gold and ignore the stuff that is easy to find here. 

Well, the Earth's core probably have more gold and metals than all the asteroids combined, so...

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Lots of uranium down there, too. 

I'm going to hazard the guess that Mars surface deposits are more accessible than sub-mantle deposits on Earth 

[southernplain]

2 hours ago, HvP said:

In my opinion, gold's prominence as a decoration and currency is the least interesting thing about it (and one of the most depressing revelations about humanity.)

Shockingly, people like to wear nice clothes and have nice things. This is a human universal across all time periods and cultures. If people derive joy out of their baubles, then it serves a purpose for society.

Improving some industrial process on the order of a few percentage points is arguably less valuable than the enjoyment people derive from their baubles. Life is for living, not for some marginal efficiency improvement in manufacturing.

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I'm going to hazard the guess that Mars surface deposits are more accessible than sub-mantle deposits on Earth 

I strongly believe that any mineable/harvestable resource outside our planet will never be used in a meaningful way back to Earth(ground not orbit).

If we somehow reach a level of technology that makes the whole thing sustainable then we probably would have reached a point that we don't need 'rare'' resource deposits.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Serenity