[ANY][0.3.0] More Fuels!

[coyotesfrontier]

I feel like the propellant should be denser than LFO to give it a distinct role, with the engines having less ISP than LFO ones to balance it out, and make an IRL-like density/performance continuum with LFO, LCH4/O, and LH2/O. Unfortunately, LFO is already denser than any real life propellant, so you'd have to create a new resource rather than use one from CRP.

Edited October 2, 2020 by coyotesfrontier

[Clamp-o-Tron]

50 minutes ago, coyotesfrontier said:

I feel like the propellant should be denser than LFO to give it a distinct role, with the engines having less ISP than LFO ones to balance it out, and make an IRL-like density/performance continuum with LFO, LCH4/O, and LH2/O. Unfortunately, LFO is already denser than any real life propellant, so you'd have to create a new resource rather than use one from CRP.

I'm not touching Isp. The whole point of this mod is to convert engines that abstracted using hypergols but had to use LFO to more fitting fuels. I'll have to think about density, it might not be as simple as changing just a couple numbers. I have planned moving away from CRP, though.

EDIT: Also, hypergols will not boiloff, unlike oxidizer making them more useful for long-term missions. /EDIT

Anyway, if you didn't see, I (accidentally) got the LR-87/91's working! I don't know what changed but now they work like a dream, except for their dV only showing up on KER and MechJeb, not the stock system. I wasn't so lucky with the BDB boiloff system. More tweaks tomorrow

Edited October 2, 2020 by Clamp-o-Tron

[Gojira]

For names, could I suggest "Aerozine" and "Nitroxide"? I'd say those are sufficiently stockalike.

[KeaKaka]

AZ-50 and NTO as a suggestion also. Just so it fits with the CRP naming conventions.

Edited October 3, 2020 by KeaKaka

[RP1IsSuperior]

I love this! I personally don't like the stock LF/OX and it isn't very "realistic" to me, yet I don't want a full realfuel set. I may start adding support to RCS thrusters with Hydrazine

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Annnnnnnnnd it’s back! I’m motivated again, and it would be nice to get this ready so it can be incorporated into another project that’s not quite on the forums at this time ( @hemeac knows what I mean). 0.2 will introduce optional boiloff for oxidizer primarily, but also some under-the-hood changes to the setup. No changes will be made at this point before release unless testing proves me wrong.

[hemeac]

1 hour ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Annnnnnnnnd it’s back! I’m motivated again, and it would be nice to get this ready so it can be incorporated into another project that’s not quite on the forums at this time ( @hemeac knows what I mean). 0.2 will introduce optional boiloff for oxidizer primarily, but also some under-the-hood changes to the setup. No changes will be made at this point before release unless testing proves me wrong.

I think that hypothetical project, if it exists, is very close to popping up on the forums and would definitely benefit from having some hypergolic engines 

[Clamp-o-Tron]

It seems like I get interest for this just about every month exactly. I’ve got 0.2 *actually* near release soon, will probably get it to you in the next 24 hours. It’s a pretty big rewrite of MM patches, and it uses custom resources now too. I also went over the stock patch again and found it quite lacking, which was fixed.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Changelog:

• General cleanup and improvements to the switcher system.
• Added an optional config (with Nertea's CryoTanks installed) to make oxidizer (interpreted as LOX) boiloff. This is intended to give the mixture some disadvantages over hypergols.
• Removed CommunityResourcePack dependency.
• Added Aerozine and Nitroxide resources, which are near-identical to CRP Az50 and NTO.

• Added support for Tantares and TantaresLV.

•  Revamped stock patch.

GitHub

[Cochies]

Adding hyperholics is good. But just adding them is not enough. An integrated approach is needed - using the settings for the engine ignitor, setting the boil-off for all other types of fuel. Otherwise, hyperholics lose their meaning.

I did something similar in my assembly . The balance of advantages and disadvantages of hydrazine fuel is manifested only in comparison.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Cochies

[Clamp-o-Tron]

1 hour ago, Cochies said:

Adding hyperholics is good. But just adding them is not enough. An integrated approach is needed - using the settings for the engine ignitor, setting the boil-off for all other types of fuel. Otherwise, hyperholics lose their meaning.

I did something similar in my assembly . The balance of advantages and disadvantages of hydrazine fuel is manifested only in comparison.

 

Yes, that is a plan for the future. Right now the focus is basically on getting the framework in place.

Oxidizer (LOX) now has an optional config to allow it to boiloff, if there are any other fuels (I don't think so) that need my attention, please tell me.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Clamp-o-Tron

[Cochies]

1 hour ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Yes, that is a plan for the future. Right now the focus is basically on getting the framework in place.

Oxidizer (LOX) now has an optional config to allow it to boiloff, if there are any other fuels (I don't think so) that need my attention, please tell me.

No. All is well.  Make your own amil-party and let people know what it is. )))


(If I could advise something, I would advise only to transfer the RSC to hydrazine)

Edited November 30, 2020 by Cochies

[Clamp-o-Tron]

1 hour ago, Cochies said:

No. All is well.  Make your own amil-party and let people know what it is. )))

Amil-party?

1 hour ago, Cochies said:

FYI, not all of those engines are tagged as hypergolic. NF spacecraft doesn't have a config, and the MH vernier and the Poodle run on kerolox.

1 hour ago, Cochies said:

If I could advise something, I would advise only to transfer the RSC to hydrazine)

The MonoPropellant that most RCS runs on is to hydrazine as liquid fuel is to kerosene. If you want to switch the names in-game, make an MM patch with the following lines:

 @RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LiquidFuel]
{
  @displayName = Kerosene
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Oxidizer]
{
  @displayName = LqdOxygen
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[MonoPropellant]
{
  @displayName = Hydrazine
}

Since under the hood, for localization purposes, all resources are referred to by their name, not displayName, this patch has no compatibility issues except for maybe a description referring to Liquid Fuel when the resource is actually Kerosene.

 

EDIT:

Are those OPT fuselages getting the fuel switch right? It's something that's important to get right but I haven't payed any attention to.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Clamp-o-Tron

[Cochies]

16 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Amil-party?

FYI, not all of those engines are tagged as hypergolic. NF spacecraft doesn't have a config, and the MH vernier and the Poodle run on kerolox.

The MonoPropellant that most RCS runs on is to hydrazine as liquid fuel is to kerosene. If you want to switch the names in-game, make an MM patch with the following lines:

 @RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LiquidFuel]
{
  @displayName = Kerosene
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Oxidizer]
{
  @displayName = LqdOxygen
}
@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[MonoPropellant]
{
  @displayName = Hydrazine
}

Since under the hood, for localization purposes, all resources are referred to by their name, not displayName, this patch has no compatibility issues except for maybe a description referring to Liquid Fuel when the resource is actually Kerosene.

 

EDIT:

Are those OPT fuselages getting the fuel switch right? It's something that's important to get right but I haven't payed any attention to.

"Amyl" is the traditional name for dinitrogen tetroxide in Soviet rocketry.
Also, Unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine is often called "Heptyl".

Speaking of fuel for engines: I know what kind of fuel they run in stock. I gave the screenshot just as an example of which engines I used for hypergolic fuel. My "Amyl-Engine party")))

I can't say anything about the fuel switch in OPT.    In recent releases, if my memory does not fail me, B9 is used. There is great switch,   no problem with it if you need to add a new type of fuel to the tank.

[Naeth Kerman]

There is a problem, Restock's J-2 analog. It is switched to hypergolic fuels. Isn't it meant to be LH2 and Ox?

[Clamp-o-Tron]

14 minutes ago, Naeth Kerman said:

There is a problem, Restock's J-2 analog. It is switched to hypergolic fuels. Isn't it meant to be LH2 and Ox?

Oops. Looks like I messed up some of the engine names for ReStock+ and no Making History. I'll push out a fix tonight for that, and add some new configs.

[KeaKaka]

@Clamp-o-Tron

Bug:

The LV-303 'Pug' Liquid Fuel Engine is converted to hypergolic propellants, but has Liquid Fuel and Oxidizer as well as Aerozine and Nitroxide. no fuel switch is available either

Edited January 13, 2021 by KeaKaka

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Just now, KeaKaka said:

@Clamp-o-Tron

Bug:

The LV-303 'Pug' Liquid Fuel Engine is converted to hypergolic propellants, but has Liquid Fuel and Oxidizer as well as Aerozine and Nitroxide. no fuel switch is available either

Thanks, will look into that in 0.3. Progress is a bit slow as I can't do much work on it atm, but we will get there eventually  

[KeaKaka]

Though aside from that, the mod works fine and I am yet to notice any other bugs.

Great work!

[Clamp-o-Tron]

47 minutes ago, KeaKaka said:

Though aside from that, the mod works fine and I am yet to notice any other bugs.

Great work!

Big simplifications and additional propellants coming in 0.3. I originally planned to get some RCS stuff in per @Spaceman.Spiff’s recommendation, but that’s been giving me trouble and I want to get the nearly finished version out the door. Also, ISRU chains (ore and realistic) are coming.

[grungar3x7]

A question, any chance of a brit style rebalance of existing LF/O rockets to a 1/7 fuel ox ratio, simulating RP-1 and HTP?

[Spaceman.Spiff]

15 minutes ago, grungar3x7 said:

simulating RP-1 and HTP?

I don't think that's really the scope of this mod. @Clamp-o-Tron has said that Peroxide will be added as an RCS fuel, but rebalancing LFO is not really in relation to Stockalike Hypergols(not stockalike fuels).

Once the resource is added I'm sure you could make an engine that uses that mixture though. I assume that's for a Gamma engine?

Edited January 14, 2021 by Spaceman.Spiff

[grungar3x7]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Once the resource is added I'm sure you could make an engine that uses that mixture though. I assume that's for a Gamma engine?

I guess I could, and no, not unless the ReStock+ folks add one! It's more to do with the fact that I like a granularity somewhere between  RealFuels and stock, using pretty much all of Nertea's mods to do so, and the supposition that the oxidizer in LF/O was oxygen, but the mix ratio being off, in addition to boiloff being handwaved, bugged me slightly. a while ago,  I'd read on the Add-on discussion someone's suggestion that RP-1/HTP was the fuel being represented, and it shut the voice in the back of my head up for a good while, until I did some digging, and found the mix ratio in documentation. Now, the little beast won't let me build in peace, nagging that "It's still not quite right..." whenever I put an LF/O rocket together.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

50 minutes ago, grungar3x7 said:

somewhere between  RealFuels and stock

I think this mod will achieve that. If I recall correctly it also includes a patch for oxidiser boiloff. 

51 minutes ago, grungar3x7 said:

It's still not quite right

It's a game; it's going to be a bit imperfect

[grungar3x7]

1 minute ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

It's a game; it's going to be a bit imperfect

This fact is the only thing keeping it from being more than a small voice, but it'd be cool to stack an FL-T100 full of LF (thanks to nert's config) and put three FL-T tanks with non-cryo "oxidizer" (a 400, 200, and 100) to get a perfect burn...