[1.9.1-1.10.1] Kiwi Tech Tree Overhaul 1.3.0 (17 December 2020)

[hemeac]

12 hours ago, CrzyIrishmanBob said:

I love your tech tree. I played with it in the past before eventually abandoning the game for a few months. Recently I started playing again, this time with Unkerballed Start on JNSQ since it directly supports KW. But it doesn't compare to the progression from your mod imo. 

 

That being said, I'm gonna have to abandon the JNSQ career because the lack of early contracts make it nearly impossible to upgrade the buildings and progress with part purchases. I noticed a JNSQ contract pack was on your list of ideas to play around with. I would love to work with you on developing that. I don't really use the forums much outside of reading mod threads so I don't know if I should PM you about this or not. Sorry if this is derailing to the thread. 

 

Also, I'm excited to hear about continued development on this mod. I'm very willing to help with testing when you get to that stage. Thanks for your work! 

Definitely not derailing the thread.  Most of my testing on KTT career was at the very beginning of the tree and while others have noted that there are some really good career packs out there that are a lot of fun, @KawaiiLucy really nailed in that I don't think any fully capture RP1's early sounding rocket contracts.  In the long-run for KTT, I am hoping that people will see the early tiers in the tech tree something to enjoy and not just something to smash through to get to the good stuff of sending off rockets to the Mun.

[CrzyIrishmanBob]

11 hours ago, Krydax said:

have you tried career evolution? It added a lot of helpful contracts for me (playing with unkerballed start as well) that got me enough funding to move forward!

I did just add that one but didn't get too much play time with it. I'll have to give it a shot here soon with KTT. I'm gonna take a little career break to actually learn how to build a workable airplane. Thanks for the tip! 

[CrzyIrishmanBob]

10 hours ago, hemeac said:

Definitely not derailing the thread.  Most of my testing on KTT career was at the very beginning of the tree and while others have noted that there are some really good career packs out there that are a lot of fun, @KawaiiLucy really nailed in that I don't think any fully capture RP1's early sounding rocket contracts.  In the long-run for KTT, I am hoping that people will see the early tiers in the tech tree something to enjoy and not just something to smash through to get to the good stuff of sending off rockets to the Mun.

I agree completely. I think the early game is just as fun as the rest of the game. Sounding rockets, aviation, basic comms, etc. I almost feel like the rest of the game is less fun if it's accessible too quickly. 

[CessnaSkyhawk]

@hemeac sorry to bother you, but do u think u could actually generate that list of BDB parts if it’s not too much of a hassle? My career save kinda disintegrated so I might actually try my hand at making a 1.5 BDB patch  

 

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Here's my current plan - already starting patching in Vanguard, Scout, and Redstone

https://imgur.com/a/NIhDELE

 

hardest part to balance seems to be the fuel tanks. I’ve noticed that for most other mods they tend to for a given radius they are spread out over like 4 different techs. I’ll probably keep the BDB ones a bit tighter packed tho as IMO that huge spread tends to lead to a lot more “noodle rockets” because you end up needing to just use like 10 small tanks to replace the one big tank that you’d normally use and we all know how KSP reacts to that…

Edited July 29, 2021 by CessnaSkyhawk

[hemeac]

21 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Here's my current plan - already starting patching in Vanguard, Scout, and Redstone

I don't have any particularly strong opinions about the placements, so have fun :-) https://github.com/hemeac/kiwiTechTree/raw/master/Source/PartList_30Jul2021.xlsx

I have developed a template in Excel that I use to make patches, but not sure how accessible it is for anyone, but as a just in case, you can find it here: https://github.com/hemeac/kiwiTechTree/raw/master/Source/Template_23July2021.xlsx.  The engine upgrade system that I use is not going to work well with the BDB engines that have part variants, so probably don't use them unless you are pretty comfortable with MM patches.  But you will probably want to change around the tech requirements for the engine upgrades.  You can generally find them in folders with engines in files called upgrades.cfg.  You can patch them using something like:

@PARTUPGRADE[bluedog_RL101]:AFTER[Bluedog_DB]
{
	@techRequired = chooseNewTechNodeHere
}

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by hemeac

[CessnaSkyhawk]

Should have the tech patch finished by the end of the day today, and then I’ll try and figure out how to send a PR for it  after that, gonna look into setting up configs for making it fully Kerbalism compatible. Not going to other with upgrades though, at least for now

Might also try to make a quick one for reDirect and the Hephapsitos (ULA Vulcan) mod as well

Edited July 31, 2021 by CessnaSkyhawk

[hemeac]

6 hours ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

I’ll try and figure out how to send a PR

If it takes too long to get setup, just send me DM with a link from Dropbox or something similar.

[CessnaSkyhawk]

56 minutes ago, hemeac said:

If it takes too long to get setup, just send me DM with a link from Dropbox or something similar.

Not needed - PR should be all set up!

[CrzyIrishmanBob]

@hemeacWhat do you think about including the Engine Plates from Making History in earlier nodes similar to Unkerballed Start? That is one of the features that I think is really good and worth borrowing. It doesn't really make the game easier but it does make multi-engine stages easier to build unless you use Procedural Fairings.

[hemeac]

4 hours ago, CrzyIrishmanBob said:

@hemeacWhat do you think about including the Engine Plates from Making History in earlier nodes similar to Unkerballed Start? That is one of the features that I think is really good and worth borrowing. It doesn't really make the game easier but it does make multi-engine stages easier to build unless you use Procedural Fairings.

Should be able to do another pass to see how they fit in with other pieces.

[SiCaRiO31]

So, the bug I mentionend before, about been able to use all SAS controls with probes and kerbals (with no experience) was a stock bug and its been fixed by the recent 1.12.2 

[flart]

Trying to move to 1.12.2, and there is some problem with the restock-engine-cherenkov
(I have KerbalAtomic, and don't have NTRsUseLF)

[WRN 02:08:55.477] Warning on PartSubtype upgrade on module ModuleB9PartSwitch (moduleID='engineSwitch') on part restock-engine-cherenkov: Could not find matching module
[EXC 02:08:55.478] Exception: Could not find matching module

ksp.log https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alncj27YxKc-h243TIDRG9P6cC2R 
player.log https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alncj27YxKc-h28x9aRcLL-Frpba
ModuleManager.ConfigCache https://1drv.ms/u/s!Alncj27YxKc-h3Cpjqsfr5iaaE-0?e=ht5Qh8

UPD. found changes that probably fixes it.

// KerbalAtomics_ReStockPlusPatches.cfg
// 24 July 2021: Changes the needs due to changes in Kerbal Atomics 1.3.0

Is it safe to use the last commit of a master branch?

Edited August 9, 2021 by flart

[Darkherring]

I would also love to know if it is safe to update from release to master. I have quite a late-game career and I wouldn't like to crash it.

[Beetlecat]

I'm assuming the current MM errors regarding Tantares are due to that mod's recent update.

I've only briefly looked at the Update.cfg file, but not sure where to begin troubleshooting. Is it due to engine/component name changes on Tantares' end?

I hope a new release is still brewing...  I've dropped in @CessnaSkyhawk's PRs in the meantime, and all else seems okay.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Beetlecat

[CessnaSkyhawk]

58 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

I'm assuming the current MM errors regarding Tantares are due to that mod's recent update.

I've only briefly looked at the Update.cfg file, but not sure where to begin troubleshooting. Is it due to engine/component name changes on Tantares' end?

I hope a new release is still brewing...  I've dropped in @CessnaSkyhawk's PRs in the meantime, and all else seems okay.

Glad to hear people are making use of my KTT configs! One thing I will warn is that the Kerbalism support is definitely not fully functional or balanced, and unfortunately, probably won't ever be... I've shifted over to mostly working on my own, KTT-inspired tech tree instead.

[Beetlecat]

4 minutes ago, CessnaSkyhawk said:

Glad to hear people are making use of my KTT configs! One thing I will warn is that the Kerbalism support is definitely not fully functional or balanced, and unfortunately, probably won't ever be... I've shifted over to mostly working on my own, KTT-inspired tech tree instead.

Oh, heckin' yeah! I'll take a look.

While I've been loving KTT, it's an enormous undertaking, and maintenance sink due to being so much more than just being a tech tree (though likely less so nowadays since the game, and mods are likely going to stabilize considerably from here on out). I love the utter gadgety-ness of all the extra generated upgrades, but that can throw balance out a bit.

I'm also a fan of Kerbalism, so knowing full well there are going to bees with that does give me pause.

I'll check out your work, too!

[Redleg1]

On 3/15/2021 at 3:27 PM, Coyote21 said:

Follow up.

I impressed myself so much with the idea that the MJ part AR202 should get the MJ techs before the command pods, I made a MM patch to achieve it.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

// Changes MJ2 Tech unlocks for the MJ2 AR202 part 1 tier earlier than for command pods
// Means you can get access to the MJ autopilots 1 tier earlier if you use the AR202 part.

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202]:AFTER[KiwiTechTree]
{
  @TechRequired = start
  @mass = 0.01
  %MODULE[MechJebCore]
  {
    %MechJebLocalSettings
    {
      %MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleSmartASS { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleNodeEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleTranslatron { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleWarpHelper { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleThrustWindow { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRoverWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
    }
  }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[MechJebCore],!MODULE[KerbalEVA]]:AFTER[MechJeb2,KiwiTechTree]
{
  %MODULE[MechJebCore]
  {
    %MechJebLocalSettings
    {
      %MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleSmartASS { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleNodeEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleTranslatron { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleWarpHelper { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleThrustWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRoverWindow { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
    }
  }
}

 

 

 

 

 

Using this patch means you get the MJ unlocks 1 tier earlier but you have to use an extra (not small) part before it gets integrated into the command pod/probe on the next tech tier.

e.g.  SmartASS is now available at Basic Flight Control (instead of  Flight Control) but only if you also use the AR202 part. When you research Flight Control, SmartASS becomes integrated into the command pod/probe as KTT intended, but now Ascent Guidance is available, but again only with the AR202 part.

Played with the idea that I should keep the AR202 tech levels at KTT default and bump command pods/probe integration up by 1 tier instead, but I'm too soft for that type of KSP pain, others may prefer that though. I'll let smarter ppl decide.

 

 

I thought that the above patch that is now integrated into KTT fixed the problem with the control modes being overridden by MJ2 and not using the tech nodes in the KTT patch. But for me it seems that the MJ2 main config still overrides KTT. For example I still end up with the Ascent Guidance module in the Unmanned Tech node instead of the Flight Control node.  Does anyone have a solution to this? I tried removing the Mechjeb and Engineer for all mod but that doesn't change anything either.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Redleg1
Grammar

[Coyote21]

I've not played (or modded) KSP recently and I even found it hard locating my original copy of this patch so I'm a bit rusty, but a quick and dirty fix that may tide you over until I (or likely someone better) can provide something more polished.

Replace my previous patch with the following:

Spoiler

// Kiwi's Tech Tree Overhaul (MechJeb2 by Sarbian Patch)
// Version 1.1
// Created: 6 Oct 2021 for KSP 1.12.0

// Changes MJ2 Tech unlocks for the MJ2 AR202 part to be 1 tier earlier than for command pods
// Means you can get access to the MJ autopilots 1 tier earlier if you use the AR202 part.

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202]:FINAL
{
  @TechRequired = start
  @mass = 0.01
  %MODULE[MechJebCore]
  {
    %MechJebLocalSettings
    {
      %MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleSmartASS { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleNodeEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleTranslatron { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleWarpHelper { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleThrustWindow { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRoverWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
    }
  }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[MechJebCore],!MODULE[KerbalEVA]]:FINAL
{
  %MODULE[MechJebCore]
  {
    %MechJebLocalSettings
    {
      %MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleSmartASS { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleNodeEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleTranslatron { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleWarpHelper { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleThrustWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRoverWindow { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
    }
  }
}

Hope this helps/works.

NOTE: I've not tested this, its done mainly from memory. The only change is the replacement of the two AFTER directives for FINAL directives which is hacky but will ensure that the tech level changes will be applied last and not over-ridden by other mods.

Let me know how it goes please.

 

[Redleg1]

1 hour ago, Coyote21 said:

I've not played (or modded) KSP recently and I even found it hard locating my original copy of this patch so I'm a bit rusty, but a quick and dirty fix that may tide you over until I (or likely someone better) can provide something more polished.

Replace my previous patch with the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

// Kiwi's Tech Tree Overhaul (MechJeb2 by Sarbian Patch)
// Version 1.1
// Created: 6 Oct 2021 for KSP 1.12.0

// Changes MJ2 Tech unlocks for the MJ2 AR202 part to be 1 tier earlier than for command pods
// Means you can get access to the MJ autopilots 1 tier earlier if you use the AR202 part.

@PART[mumech_MJ2_AR202]:FINAL
{
  @TechRequired = start
  @mass = 0.01
  %MODULE[MechJebCore]
  {
    %MechJebLocalSettings
    {
      %MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleSmartASS { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleNodeEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleTranslatron { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleWarpHelper { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleThrustWindow { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { %unlockTechs = basicFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRoverWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
    }
  }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[MechJebCore],!MODULE[KerbalEVA]]:FINAL
{
  %MODULE[MechJebCore]
  {
    %MechJebLocalSettings
    {
      %MechJebModuleCustomWindowEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleSmartASS { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleManeuverPlanner { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleNodeEditor { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleTranslatron { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleWarpHelper { %unlockTechs = start }
      %MechJebModuleAttitudeAdjustment { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleThrustWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRCSBalancerWindow { %unlockTechs = flightControl }
      %MechJebModuleRoverWindow { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleAscentGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
      %MechJebModuleLandingGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleSpaceplaneGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleDockingGuidance { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousAutopilotWindow { %unlockTechs = specializedControl }
      %MechJebModuleRendezvousGuidance { %unlockTechs = advFlightControl }
    }
  }
}

Hope this helps/works.

NOTE: I've not tested this, its done mainly from memory. The only change is the replacement of the two AFTER directives for FINAL directives which is hacky but will ensure that the tech level changes will be applied last and not over-ridden by other mods.

Let me know how it goes please.

 

@Coyote21Thanks for the ideas.  I tried the :FINAL hack earlier as well, guess I should have mentioned that. It did not work however. I tried removing the "Mechjeb and Engineer for All" mod as well and that did not seem to have an effect either.  Also tried it on a new save just to be sure, no effect.  I am not sure what the problem is because I have done my own edits to part placement for other mods and they seem to work fine.  Would be curious to know if anyone else that is currently playing with KTT has the same problem.

[hemeac]

Just wanted to pop in here to basically to admit to myself that KTT is functionally dead at this point (or at least my involvement with it).  I had a glimmer of hope that I could keep my interest going with it a few months ago, but have been busy with work and other hobbies.  Just looking at my schedule for upcoming work and it isn't likely to get any better for awhile.  My job involves text editors and spreadsheets, so my mind is usually craving other form of entertainment when I log off from work.  So if anyone wants to take on this project or just cannibalize it for your projects, feel free to go ahead and not worry about asking my permission first.  I also want to thank everyone again, it was a lot of fun to have a chance to  contribute something to KSP and hope you got some entertainment out of it.

[SiCaRiO31]

Its sad but understandable. This tech tree has been my favorite one since coming back to ksp, hope we can see some form of it in the near future. Thanks for all the HOURS of fun man! Its been truly amazing. 

[Zelda]

Yes, I agree. Hopefully it can live on in some form, but if not, I've still gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it as-is. This tech tree was able to breath new life into the game for me as a long-time KSP player, so thank you @hemeac! Wishing you nothing but the best in the future. 

[Daniel Prates]

Same here @hemeac, this has been my favorite tech tree and I hope someone keeps your excellent work going. Many thanks!

[Spaceman.Spiff]

10 hours ago, hemeac said:

Just wanted to pop in here to basically to admit to myself that KTT is functionally dead at this point (or at least my involvement with it).  I had a glimmer of hope that I could keep my interest going with it a few months ago, but have been busy with work and other hobbies.  Just looking at my schedule for upcoming work and it isn't likely to get any better for awhile.  My job involves text editors and spreadsheets, so my mind is usually craving other form of entertainment when I log off from work.  So if anyone wants to take on this project or just cannibalize it for your projects, feel free to go ahead and not worry about asking my permission first.  I also want to thank everyone again, it was a lot of fun to have a chance to  contribute something to KSP and hope you got some entertainment out of it.

Sorry to hear that 

Im glad we got all the stuff that we did though. thanks for all your great work!

Lastly, is it safe to download the master?  It looks like there’s a few extra bits of compatibility that isn’t in the latest release.