Automated Landing Sequences for No Signal Probe Missions

[Katos]

So we have all been in the situation where you are doing a probe mission with DSN on and just when you are about land/enter atmoshpere you lose signal - espacially when you are doing a particularly challenging DSN setup or you have plasma black out on.

So I recommend adding something like the KAL-1000 into the game but, instead of it being a time dependant system, it would be altitude dependant with the potential to add some velocity conditions. This would let you do fully automated landing like you probably have seen with NASA's Perserverance landing recently. 

I envisage the 'programming' of the system being either something like the KAL-1000 or more of a block-based system where you can link the condition and actuation together i.e. At 5000m -> Deploy Drogue. At 1000m -> Cut Drogue & Deploy Main Parachute etc. It would allow you to have it activate engines or solid rocket boosters at a couple of metres of the ground to reduce velcoity before landing in case of last minute signal black out.

Hope this makes sense and apologies if it has been suggested before. It's something that I've been thinking would be a good addition for KSP to have and another layer of fun for the hardcore fans to play with.

[paul_c]

Its probably a good addition for some circumstances but KSP has always focused on manually flying something. Its part of its charm, and also part of the departure from realism. 

Regarding your specific example with chutes, AIUI its more/less how they work anyway - once "armed" they don't immediately deploy, but have autonomous (relatively) simple logic: at above xxxx pressure and if speed is below yyyy, semi-deploy; at zzzz altitude, fully deploy. Thus, they will work on their own. BUT the craft needs to be in "physics range". I have successfully armed chutes, then split a craft and the debris portion has deployed its chutes and survived a landing while the probe/controller part had the focus and the two remained within physics range of each other. Similarly, I've tried further distances or the other craft in physics range not being active (ie (try to) return to the space station and time progresses) and it either forbids you from leaving the game at that point; or disappears or is destroyed.

[Dr. Kerbal]

We could use the K-Call controller or maybe KSP2 could have some sort of programmer.

[Misguided Kerbal]

Hmmm... interesting idea. resists urge to say 'there's a mod already' Perhaps there could be an in-flight (like the action groups thingy) thing like the Making History mission planner. It could be included as part of the breaking ground DLC I suppose, it should fit in there pretty well. 

[The Aziz]

That's what commnet is for.

No seriously, you're asking for a workaround for core aspect of the game.

Yesterday I was landing a rover on Duna, and somehow I didn't put any relays there, so I had no signal. But the "limited probe control on signal loss" was enough to make a safe-ish reentry and landing. Just stick to retrograde and I was fine, the staging worked regardless.

[kspnerd122]

I would only say this is a legitimate issue on tylo, where once you start landing, you cant stop once you are below a certain altitude, If it's a probe, You can't steer or finely control throttle, also, idea for you, when you go to duna, bring some microsats along, you jettison them right before entry and then alter your trajectory to enter the atmosphere, it provides relays that don't cause issues because you KNOW it will be overhead.

[linuxgurugamer]

There is always KoS

[Guest]

I would like a better way to program robotics. There is indeed always KoS, but something a bit simpler could work well in stock. Even the ability to trigger action groups on inputs like velocity, altitude, air pressure, vertical speed, servo/deploy angle, rotor RPM etc would make all kinds of mayhem possible. Throw in a few logic gates and we're in business. You could make an auto-landing probe, and a lot of other things as well.

[kspnerd122]

Seriously tho, I feel like maybe there should be a similar function(kill velocity) that could be used for engines, also, KAL 9000 is usable for this, just make an engine script(altho, it is hard, ngl)

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, kspnerd122 said:

Seriously tho, I feel like maybe there should be a similar function(kill velocity) that could be used for engines, also, KAL 9000 is usable for this, just make an engine script(altho, it is hard, ngl)

Sounds very simple, but it's not.

I suppose a simplified landing computer could be developed, which would just contain macros, but feel that would probably start to duplicate KoS

[Gargamel]

10 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Sounds very simple, but it's not.

I suppose a simplified landing computer could be developed, which would just contain macros, but feel that would probably start to duplicate KoS

I think there might also be a Mod out there that contains a set of parts that act smart under certain conditions?  
 

A series of these smart parts might not steer the ship (although they could, but not well), but could very easily automate a ballistic landing sequence.  Chutes, heat shield, legs, etc.  

[Guest]

13 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I suppose a simplified landing computer could be developed, which would just contain macros, but feel that would probably start to duplicate KoS

I don't think duplicating KoS – or mods in general – is necessarily a bad thing. I like what stock KSP is doing with inventory and construction, although that clearly overlaps with KIS/KAS.  Breaking Ground overlaps with a bunch of robotic mods. There's massive gameplay potential in better programmability, and the KAL is seriously limited. 

KoS is pretty daunting for people with no coding experience of any kind, and I think there is room for a simplified version, perhaps a visual programming language. It's a fairly significant undertaking obviously so possibly a candidate for a DLC rather than a free update.

[RealKerbal3x]

As far as I can tell it's already possible to create a simple KAL-based control system by rotating the control point on a hinge and changing the thrust limiter on engines. It wouldn't be able to react to situations or anything and would only be following a sequence blindly but it'd be something.

[linuxgurugamer]

7 hours ago, Gargamel said:

I think there might also be a Mod out there that contains a set of parts that act smart under certain conditions?  
 

A series of these smart parts might not steer the ship (although they could, but not well), but could very easily automate a ballistic landing sequence.  Chutes, heat shield, legs, etc.  

I was actually thinking along those lines, but not too deeply, rather busy with IRL and other mods

[Stone Blue]

8 hours ago, Gargamel said:

I think there might also be a Mod out there that contains a set of parts that act smart under certain conditions?  
 

A series of these smart parts might not steer the ship (although they could, but not well), but could very easily automate a ballistic landing sequence.  Chutes, heat shield, legs, etc.  

There's SmartParts, and RealChutes ... vOv

Would be nice is if something like AutoActions was made, except for use on *launch*, the user could trigger it at any time... like at the beginning of re-entry/landing attempt vOv

Its old, but theres Auto Smart Parts, which seems to automatically raise/lower landing gear/legs, based on altitude vOv

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Stone Blue

[Gargamel]

2 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

There's SmartParts, and RealChutes ... vOv

That was the not very subtle reference

[Dr. Kerbal]

On 2/25/2021 at 1:13 AM, Brikoleur said:

I don't think duplicating KoS – or mods in general – is necessarily a bad thing. I like what stock KSP is doing with inventory and construction, although that clearly overlaps with KIS/KAS.  Breaking Ground overlaps with a bunch of robotic mods. There's massive gameplay potential in better programmability, and the KAL is seriously limited. 

KoS is pretty daunting for people with no coding experience of any kind, and I think there is room for a simplified version, perhaps a visual programming language. It's a fairly significant undertaking obviously so possibly a candidate for a DLC rather than a free update.

I suggest it.

[linuxgurugamer]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:31 AM, Stone Blue said:

There's SmartParts

 

On 2/25/2021 at 9:34 AM, Gargamel said:

That was the not very subtle reference

 

2 hours ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

I suggest it.