A legitimate case for including Mac and Linux support on launch

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Laxez said:

but why are you so sadistic to use mac or pc with linux to play?

 

[Nazalassa]

7 hours ago, Gargamel said:

That would completely destroy the market.

That's what's called free software.

I believe in it.

Games are supposed to be fun, not lucrative.

[Laxez]

18 minutes ago, Master39 said:

 

ok, nothing to say

16 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

That's what's called free software.

I believe in it.

Games are supposed to be fun, not lucrative.

what are you talking about? people eat with money you know?

free stuff will never be as good as paid stuff.

[Nazalassa]

In "free sowftware", the word "free" refers as freedom, not price

[Laxez]

6 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

In "free sowftware", the word "free" refers as freedom, not price

I don't want to open a discussion about whether Windows or Linux is better, I just say that Devs already have enough problems developing 3 versions of the game, if there will be versions on Mac or Linux in the future, so much the better for these users, at the moment it is not my problem and I would understand perfectly if the Devs should never make versions for Mac and Linux, for various reasons.

ksp 2 is not the first and it will not be the last game that does not come out for these operating systems, no one has ever died for this, I myself would have liked to play several playstation's exclusive, but not having one I have always done without, it works like this

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Nazalassa said:

In "free sowftware", the word "free" refers as freedom, not price

In most software that works well enough, in content like Music, Movies, Books and Games not that much.

[MechBFP]

“Free” software is a very particular philosophical argument and it certainly has merit when it comes to software, that if restricted to payment, would have wide ranging implications in terms of accessibility and usability of other software (free or otherwise) or inaccessibility to broad topics of knowledge. 
Of course if you ever got a chance to hear someone like Richard Stallman talk they are purely on the side that ALL software should be “free”, but that would obviously curtail a lot of entertainment software development or inevitably lead to “loop holes” being developed to bend the intentions behind something like GNU, which would likely lead to a much worse solution in the long run than simply paying for the software you want. 

[Nazalassa]

2 hours ago, Master39 said:

in content like Music, Movies, Books and Games not that much.

The only game I play tat is not in the category "free software" is KSP.

The others being Minetest, Hyperrogue, Moria, and Simutrans.

[farelinho]

On this topic, I can only express my personal situation:  I have played KSP using Steam in a Linux (Ubuntu) OS and I manage my mods with CKAN.

I only use Mac or Windows at work, where gaming is completely out of the question.

If KSP2 won't be compatible with Linux systems, I will most certainly be excluded.

Nevertheless, there are multiple Windows-based games on Steam that also run in Linux systems, using Steam Play.  I could live with that.

[TheKrakenHerder]

6 hours ago, Laxez said:

but why are you so sadistic to use mac or pc with linux to play?

Some people can't get, or afford a Windows PC. As KSP has always been available for Mac and Linux, it seems unfair that even Xbox 1 and PS4 are taking priority over Mac and Linux.

[SciMan]

15 hours ago, Nazalassa said:

I think that every game should be able to download as a source code so we can compile it ourselves, so the devs don't need to worry about which systems they do binaries and which systems they don't, and so there won't be a time when the game will no longer be able to run on the latest computers.

No game released for profit ever includes the source code, because the source code is the "secret sauce" that can be modified and then re-compiled to remove "very important" features like copy protection, DRM, and "things that generally require an internet connection" (such as on-demand decryption of game assets using decryption keys supplied via that internet connection, which is probably how at least some existing DRM works for some games).

The only reason KSP mods require the source code to be released is that it prevents people from doing anything malicious with them, like secretly putting a crypto miner in the addon's code (IDK how you'd even do that, but I'm sure someone would find a way).

Linux users might be used to seeing source code released, but trust me that never happens with software that you actually have to pay for (at least, not on any other operating system).
And considering that KSP 2 is not going to be free-to-play, I'm sure that the source code won't be released for it.

If there's going to be a Linux release for KSP 2 at launch, the developers will be the ones compiling it, not you.

EDIT: And as far as "all software should be free", say goodbye to the paycheck for fully 3/4 of the software development industry (including the ENTIRE video games industry).
Like it or not, they don't do this stuff out of the kindness of their hearts. They want to live comfortably too. You really think social media would be the gigantic thing it is today if people hadn't figured out that you could use it to show lots and lots of people ads, you know ads that people will pay for the rights to have their ad on a page?

Edited May 5, 2022 by SciMan

[whatsEJstandfor]

22 minutes ago, TheKrakenHerder said:

Some people can't get, or afford a Windows PC. As KSP has always been available for Mac and Linux, it seems unfair that even Xbox 1 and PS4 are taking priority over Mac and Linux.

I wonder how well Proton will work for playing KSP2 on Linux. I'm sure we won't know till it's released, but at least there's hope!

[Nazalassa]

I don't see the utility of releasing a game for profit, rather than for providing fun to people.

[whatsEJstandfor]

1 minute ago, Nazalassa said:

I don't see the utility of releasing a game for profit, rather than for providing fun to people.

Until we move to a post-money society, people who make things need to eat and have a place to live. I'm assuming you have a job; why not work for free?

[Nazalassa]

Actually, one thing would be to release the stuff for free, and then give people the opportunity to give you some money if they want to ("Buy me a coffee")

[whatsEJstandfor]

Ok but why not just make "buying me a coffee" a prerequisite for owning a copy? oops we've invented commerce

[darthgently]

3 minutes ago, whatsEJstandfor said:

Until we move to a post-money society, people who make things need to eat and have a place to live. I'm assuming you have a job; why not work for free?

Prediction:  we will never advance to a post-money society for the same reason we will never advance to a post-mathematics society.  Both are regressions, not advancements.  Money is just a unit to keep track of effort and added value.  If we don't have a way to track that in a distributed way then civilization ends just as quickly as if we had no engineering equations or the math to manipulate them

[Vanamonde]

The subject of this thread is Mac/Linux support, guys. Not the practicality of making games for free. 

[Vanamonde]

Off-topic comments have been removed. Get back to the subject, please. 

[shdwlrd]

10 hours ago, Master39 said:

 

That's awesome, but I feel it could be painful to use for KSP.

Playing KSP on the steam deck I mean.

Edited May 5, 2022 by shdwlrd

[stephensmat]

My only real argument for making KSP2 Linux-native is that I use Linux, and prefer it to Windows. Probably most of us who play KSP1 on Linux would say the same. It's just... faster than what Windows can offer, no matter the specs.

To be totally honest, this is what I was afraid of when I found out a different studio had taken over development.

[Vl3d]

13 hours ago, TheKrakenHerder said:

Some people can't get, or afford a Windows PC.

There's no such thing as a Windows PC. Any x64 system supports both Windows and Linux. You just have to buy Windows Home.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

That's awesome, but I feel it could be painful to use for KSP.

Playing KSP on the steam deck I mean.

Not the VAB that's for sure, but flying and roving isn't a problem at all, just a matter of keybinds, and cloud saves will allow to do my craft designing and building on my PC.

[Gargamel]

1 minute ago, Master39 said:

Not the VAB that's for sure, but flying and roving isn't a problem at all, just a matter of keybinds, and cloud saves will allow to do my craft designing and building on my PC.

Ok, that’s a pretty cool idea. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Gargamel said:

Ok, that’s a pretty cool idea. 

Save sharing between PC and handheld it's probably 50% of the reason I got a Deck, not for Kerbal specifically, but in games like Hollow Knight and Risk of Rain 2 I want to be able to seamlessly switch between PC and handheld.

Also, back in topic, Proton is fantastic, most of my games run out of the box on Linux despite no native version. Without tinkering or doing anything particular, just launch and play from Steam like on PC.