Rutabaga22 Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) For me it would probably the plane building. Not aerodynamics, but the lack of plane parts and variety in the plane parts that are there. They have said we will be bringing planes on our motherships for atmospheric flight in other solar systems, why not have diverse options for building those planes? Edited August 22, 2022 by Rutabaga22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 The. Grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 42 minutes ago, Rutabaga22 said: For me it would probably the plane building. Not aerodynamics, Anyone with two seconds in a half competent flight sim (e.g. KSP w/ FAR) knows KSP's stock aero is just messed up - aerodynamics is most certainly a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_v Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 For me, it is the collection of little annoyances and breaks that compile to make playing annoying. The wings not attaching right is one example, then the fuel flow not displaying or connecting properly, the lack of (stock) stats on resource flows in large ships and tons of little workarounds that serve to do things that should be there by default in the editor. Then in flight, the orbit line jumping around in gravity assists, the gravity sometimes bugging out and raising/lowering an orbit inexplicably, the stuttering encounter indicator, the occasional craft that is landed when it is in orbit, preventing you from quick saving or switching out. The little annoyances that come from things sliding around and the stock orbital readouts being not very pleasant to look at when you are fiddling with the tools for half an hour to get that satisfying assist chain I know it would be impossible to make a completely polished experience that is appealing to everyone, but the more of these little annoyances are fixed, the less the others stack up and the better the game feels. I hope that this is being addressed, although I played KSP 1 with them and I might still purchase KSP 2 with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutabaga22 Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Anyone with two seconds in a half competent flight sim (e.g. KSP w/ FAR) knows KSP's stock aero is just messed up - aerodynamics is most certainly a problem. You have a point, but the stock aero isn't bad, just unrealistic. I think that realistic aero would be fine, but the lack of plane parts si a bigger issue IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rutabaga22 said: stock aero isn't bad, just unrealistic One and the same to anyone that understands aero. There's a line between simplifying physics and completely misrepresenting it e.g. two-body patched conics vs airplanes in space, a la Elite. KSP's aero lands right on that line, which isn't good enough given that planes don't only have a minor role in aerospace. Edited August 23, 2022 by Bej Kerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittleidot Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 the stock aero and airplanes in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Rutabaga22 said: but the lack of plane parts si a bigger issue Addressed with procedural wings. Either way, more parts is no use without direly needed improvements to aero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutabaga22 Posted August 23, 2022 Author Share Posted August 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Addressed with procedural wings There are more parts than wing that planes have, engines, cockpits, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Feel free to inform me otherwise, but doesn’t the 1/10 spatial rescale drive a lot of these unrealistic byproducts? I would think a game principally about space exploration would be optimized for orbital rocketry and reentry rather than terrestrial aerodynamics. Can we have both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 17 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: Feel free to inform me otherwise, but doesn’t the 1/10 spatial rescale drive a lot of these unrealistic byproducts? Surely it's possible to have a 1/10th rescale and make it so a tiny Scooty-Puff-Jr brand jet engine can't break the sound barrier. 18 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: I would think a game principally about space exploration would be optimized for orbital rocketry and reentry rather than terrestrial aerodynamics. Can we have both? You're vastly underestimating how important terrestrial aerodynamics are for those things and the importance of aircrafts in space travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Surely it's possible to have a 1/10th rescale and make it so a tiny Scooty-Puff-Jr brand jet engine can't break the sound barrier. You're vastly underestimating how important terrestrial aerodynamics are for those things and the importance of aircrafts in space travel. Help me out then… is it the density gradient? Something more fundamental about the tradeoff between lift and heat? What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTay Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 There's nothing to do when you get there but look at scenery that looks like it was pulled from PS2 game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 I'd have to go with the only thing I feel compelled to still change in the game via mods, and that's the need to click 3000 times over the course of a mission to collect science. If that's changed in ANY way for the better in KSP2 I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dok_377 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Overall performance and loading times after you play for like an hour or two. If the second one fixes at least that (and has the majority of the features), I'm never launching the first game ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 The only thing that can't be "cured" with mods: Performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephensmat Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazalassa Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Use doubles instead of floats (= double precision floating-points instead of simple precision) and half the common issues will be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, Nazalassa said: Use doubles instead of floats (= double precision floating-points instead of simple precision) and half the common issues will be fixed. I wish it was that simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazalassa Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 Well, that won't solve everthing, but at least: orbit randomely changing during time warp parts randomely rotated all the precision issues all the other precision issues etc. because they are more precise. For other stuff (like the bug that when you board a module the Kerbal's body stays outside), there are other ways to fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Pthigrivi said: 13 hours ago, Bej Kerman said: Surely it's possible to have a 1/10th rescale and make it so a tiny Scooty-Puff-Jr brand jet engine can't break the sound barrier. You're vastly underestimating how important terrestrial aerodynamics are for those things and the importance of aircrafts in space travel. Help me out then… is it the density gradient? Something more fundamental about the tradeoff between lift and heat? What am I missing? Why are you asking me to come up with a solution? I brought up the problem but I'm not writing up an academic paper for you. Breaking the sound barrier with Juno/propellers is a problem, there's literally nothing to debate about that. 10 hours ago, dok_377 said: Overall performance and loading times after you play for like an hour or two. If the second one fixes at least that (and has the majority of the features), I'm never launching the first game ever again. Relevant, you know how Sonic 06 would give you >10s of loading screen for 2 seconds of character dialog then >20s of loading for the level you are waiting to play? Having to sit through a loading time in KSP just to get to a novelty 3D display of the space center so I can then select the place I want to go evokes the exact same feelings. There's literally no reason to not have a dialog box to instantly access different scenes from any other scene. There should only be one loading screen between any Space Center building, not two. The space center screen should only be optional. Even if we reduced loading times as much as possible (e.g. everything is all in one scene), it still saps a bit of time away to have to go through this middleman for the thing we want. It's pointless fluff. I'm sure there are better ways to enhance the game's presentation without making things take longer. Edited August 23, 2022 by Bej Kerman "(e.g. everything is all in one scene)" > response.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said: Why are you asking me to come up with a solution? I brought up the problem but I'm not writing up an academic paper for you. Breaking the sound barrier with Juno/propellers is a problem, there's literally nothing to debate about that. I wasn't asking you to solve the problem, nor was I asking you to debate. I was just wondering if you understood what the fundamental issue was. Anyone else have any insight on what the nature of the problem might be? Is it a simple issue with the rescale or is there something else at work? Edited August 23, 2022 by Pthigrivi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bej Kerman Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said: Anyone else have any insight on what the nature of the problem might be? Is it a simple issue with the rescale or is there something else at work? It's an issue with the aerodynamics, what kind of question is this. Regardless if Kerbin's diameter is 1,200km or 12,000km, the sound barrier shouldn't be so easy to cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dok_377 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said: There's literally no reason to not have a dialog box to instantly access different scenes from any other scene. That's why I started to use the QuickGoTo mod. Saves a lot of unnecessary scene changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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