I have multiple KSP 1 installs covering different things. Will this be possible in KSP2?

[Anth]

What if I am playing RO for somethings and I play stock for others?

How does that work with KSP2 and steam?

 

 

[MechBFP]

54 minutes ago, Anth12 said:

What if I am playing RO for somethings and I play stock for others?

How does that work with KSP2 and steam?

If I was to develop it, I would link the mods to the save file, and then you can switch between them at will and it will activate/deactivate the mods as needed. If you wish to add/remove mods to a save, that would be done in a dedicated mod menu.

[mcwaffles2003]

Early on Nate claimed the game will be DRM free so it may just be in the same way as KSP 1, but the exact method wont be answered by a forum goer.

[Anth]

3 hours ago, MechBFP said:

If I was to develop it, I would link the mods to the save file, and then you can switch between them at will and it will activate/deactivate the mods as needed. If you wish to add/remove mods to a save, that would be done in a dedicated mod menu.

See this would make sense. Also to have a collective of mods as well, say under RO or whatever.

Though it wont work for having multiple versions. Though the only reason I did was because I was bug testing over different versions. Maybe KSP2 will be so solid that I wont need to do such things.

2 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Early on Nate claimed the game will be DRM free so it may just be in the same way as KSP 1, but the exact method wont be answered by a forum goer.

Still...I like the idea of Intercept Games making a bucket load of money. I am not entirely happy with the ability to copy the game so easily.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Anth12

[The Aziz]

Why? It's not like DRMs ever stopped pirates for long. GOG sells most if not all their games DRM free and nobody complains. In fact, it's exactly what brings the players in.

[Anth]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Why? It's not like DRMs ever stopped pirates for long. GOG sells most if not all their games DRM free and nobody complains. In fact, it's exactly what brings the players in.

Yeah, that is true.

[Dafni]

KSP with a DRM that stops you from playing offline or having multiple installs???   No thanks. Hard deal breaker for me.

[mcwaffles2003]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:31 AM, Anth12 said:

Still...I like the idea of Intercept Games making a bucket load of money. I am not entirely happy with the ability to copy the game so easily.

You say this like a DRM on a single player game wouldn't have a crack out within the first week. It just inconveniences the people who actually bought it. And in my case where I play KSP on planes a lot without internet I would be screwed out of playing during the times when Im most likely to play.

[Vanamonde]

Some comment removed. Please keep the discussions civil. 

[Anth]

The freedom to make multiple installs in KSP made things very easy for bugtesting/modtesting etc.

On a selfish level I would like it this way.

But I am open to other possibilities. Still would like to be able to have separate versions though.

[Axelord FTW]

On 8/25/2022 at 10:13 PM, Anth12 said:

The freedom to make multiple installs in KSP made things very easy for bugtesting/modtesting etc.

THIS is the bit that matters the most to me. KSP is the only game I have multiple installs of because it is the only game I need multiple installs of.
If there is an integrated mod manager, in which you can tag on and off certain mods, and make selectable modlists, I could live with that. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Axelord FTW

[Anth]

2 hours ago, Axelord FTW said:

KSP is the only game I have multiple installs of because it is the only game I need multiple installs of.

Same. I have never had another game that I have done this with

[Ryaja]

In KSP 2 they could have something similar to the Minecraft launcher, so you can launch a bunch of different instances from the same place.

[SciMan]

I'm sincerely hoping that they allow multiple installs, but specifically with the caveat that any additional installs are NOT shackled to Steam updating them "whenever it feels like it".

While that method is critical for a competitive multiplayer game that doesn't support mods, for any game that DOES support mods, it's a deal-breaker.

Because at any moment, you could lose your entire save file simply because you can't find the updated mods that were in your save file doing critical things like supplying the data that represents modded parts for your vessels.
I'm sure many of us have gone thru that problem with KSP 1, for me it's why I don't have Steam having the ability to track my play-time of KSP.
I never play the steam version of KSP, instead I copy all the files from that install, move them "somewhere else" that Steam can't get its hands on them, and then play happily until I tire of that modded install, without fear of an update (that wasn't anticipated or planned for by me) ruining my install in who knows what way.

Without the ability to choose when I myself (and nobody else) wants me to update my copy of KSP 2, I'm not so sure I'd be so happy playing it with a lot of mods, as I fully expect to be doing.

[Guest]

If I'm not mistaken they already confirmed the fact that single player is going to work just like KSP1 on this aspect, you will probably need to pass through Steam or some DRM for the multiplayer side of thing though.

 

12 hours ago, SciMan said:

but specifically with the caveat that any additional installs are NOT shackled to Steam updating them "whenever it feels like it".

There's a small chance of Steam fixing this problem in the near (in Valve Time™) future, this is a considerable problem now with the SteamDeck and the ability to play offline or with unstable connections and the Deck community is being quite noisy about it, there's a chance a fix could come as part of them making a properly working offline mode for Steam as a whole.

[SciMan]

But an offline mode for Steam isn't what I'm asking for. It helps, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't fully solve the problem.

An offline mode for steam just stops EVERYTHING updating, and there's other games I play that update thru Steam.

I can see a situation happening where I want those other games to update but I DON'T want my KSP 2 to update, because the KSP update just came out and it would break all my mods that haven't updated yet...

That's why the ability to play the game (even in multiplayer) without it being forced to update to the latest version by Steam doing whatever it wants out of my control is so critically important.
That and a way to tell steam to revert to an older version.

What is really needed to fully solve the problem as it appears for KSP 2 is in fact two things:

1. A much finer level of detail over what games update when, along with the universal ability to revert without having to specify a reason you want to do so (critical for KSP and KSP 2 and pretty much every other game that is heavily dependent on mod support for core game sales).

2. A true offline mode that allows you to play the offline content (if any) of any game, in the absence of an internet connection:
There would be multiple ways to enter/exit this offline mode. You could do it manually even if you DO have an internet connection, of course.
However you would also be able set an option on Steam's connection settings to automatically switch into offline mode if you lose your internet connection.
When your internet connection is re-established after such an automatic disconnection, you would be able to pick from a list of set actions to dictate what Steam does when a connection is re-established. Perhaps something like the following options:

• Automatically exit Offline mode.
• Prompt the user that Online mode is available, and that they should select if they wish to remain offline or not
• Remain offline until manually re-set to Online mode.

Depending on the kind of game, or what the game's developer wishes, a game could of course be set so that Steam always feeds the client the update, no matter if they want it or not, I know that some kinds of games need this to maintain stability and game balance (mostly competitive multiplayer games, as well as some other kinds of software), but that's a decision that would be communicated by the game's developer or producer when figuring out what way they want to get Steam to distribute it.

Steam Client updates (not steam game/software updates) would be downloaded (following the download bandwidth limits set in Steam) at any time that Steam has a valid internet connection, regardless of the user setting Offline mode or not, for security and stability reasons of course.

I think that covers everything I want out of what Steam does regarding game updates.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Master39 said:

there's a chance a fix could come as part of them making a properly working offline mode

I'm not talking about just the offline mode, "put everything offline if you want to play" I'm specifically talking about the kind of fine control you're asking for.

Valve didn't have an incentive to work on that before now, people with special internet needs or playing on the go were not their focus. But now they made and sell the Deck, and that niche is suddenly way closer and way more noisier.

[worir4]

They could add a mod selection page to the game launcher like other games have where you can select and deselect installed mods from loading. Then you wouldn't need multiple installs of the whole game.

[SciMan]

That's nice and all, but it still doesn't stop Steam from "aggressively" updating the game when you just wanted to enjoy your save a few more months even tho a new version just came out and broke everyone's mods.

Of course, it would also be nice if a save game from an older version could prompt the game to say... close itself, tell steam to revert to the same version as the save game, re-open, check to see if all the mods are compatible with the (now older) version of KSP, and only then continue to load the save (while telling the user what it wants to try to do as well as allowing the user to override whatever choices the game has made "for" the user.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SciMan said:

That's nice and all, but it still doesn't stop Steam from "aggressively" updating the game when you just wanted to enjoy your save a few more months even tho a new version just came out and broke everyone's mods.

We can't say how they will work on that system, but now they're actively putting their hands in it for the first time in years, so there's a chance they may give us finer control over updates.

Up until the Deck launch the only use of keeping your game on an older version was because of modding or changes in the game, that's a niche within a niche of a usecase, sure not enough to pyt the effort and expense of going in and changing the code.

Consider that Valve is already at the bleeding edge by industry standard on this, choosing your download times and your library location and folders it's already something beyond what most launcher do.

They lacked the incentive to work on that.

With the deck you have people on 8 hours flights or working in places without connections that are locked out of their game, on a brand new Steam branded console, because of a 50kb update to the localisation files.

That's quite a bigger problem and involves directly Valve.

With the Deck they now have all the interest to get down and fix these small hiccups, especially since they plan to give SteamOS to other manufacturers to use for their PC and consoles.

 

2 hours ago, SciMan said:

Of course, it would also be nice if a save game from an older version could prompt the game to say... close itself, tell steam to revert to the same version as the save game, re-open, check to see if all the mods are compatible with the (now older) version of KSP, and only then continue to load the save (while telling the user what it wants to try to do as well as allowing the user to override whatever choices the game has made "for" the user.

That's on the game developers, nor Steam.

Every game saves in a different way and a different place, in a different format, cloud saves are already a lot of work to make happen.

[The Aziz]

Or it could be as simple as that.

I won't lie, I enjoy the overthinking in this community. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

Or it could be as simple as that.

I won't lie, I enjoy the overthinking in this community. 

With Minecraft you choose what version to download and launch, what I was hinting at is even simpler, just a way to tell Steam "I don't care about the updates, just let me play my outdated version"

[The Aziz]

That's a problem that lies within steam, not the game, and only steam can change it. Until that happens, the above is what the devs can do. Inform the player that there was an update before loading a save and keep, like in KSP1, an option to opt in for "beta", where in fact it is just a list of older versions.

Now, there's one more problem with that. On playstation at least, you can keep playing a game before an update downloads, but any online features are disabled. Makes sense for all players to play on the same, most up to date version, so that eg. They won't use exploits that were fixed in a later update. Minecraft allows old and new versions to be played online, but there's a minor detail - you're unlikely to have anything fixed if you encounter and report a bug on an older version (unless you can reproduce it on latest one).

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

That's a problem that lies within steam, not the game, and only steam can change it

And that's what I was saying. It was a niche problem not worth of fixing for Valve right up until the SteamDeck launched. If they're ever going to fix it chances are is going to be among the Steamdeck's offline mode improvements.

[pandaman]

Well, a radical  thought I know, but...

You could just buy it from the KSP store and NOT get it through Steam at all, then the problem  won't even exist.

Edited September 18, 2022 by pandaman