A week in... 10% still playing

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

https://steamdb.info/app/954850/charts/

Not that SteamDB is the end all be all of good info - but I do think it is telling that the numbers have dropped so precipitously. 

Virtually zero interaction from the Community Management team, no word on a patch and the rare possibility from pure guesswork that Friday might be a day to expect something... But maybe not. 

Perhaps the numbers tick up on the weekend, perhaps they jump after news of a patch comes out.

Or maybe they drop the price by 50% (looking at you, Mexico) in hopes of getting new players into the pay for Alpha experience. 

The press on this, the word of mouth is terrible... And yet we die-hard fans are still here, still hoping. 

Maybe that is why the CM team seems so unengaged.  

Useless. 

[Chilkoot]

18 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Or maybe they drop the price by 50% (looking at you, Mexico) in hopes of getting new players into the pay for Alpha experience.

Steam's distro agreement says PD can't lower the price on Steam for 30 days, even on other platforms if they want to remain on Steam.  The Mexico price drop was an unrelated re-valuation, and refunds are being issued where applicable.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Chilkoot

[mcwaffles2003]

I mean there's not much new as it is, the game in its current state is just a basic foundation and I don't believe it's really representative of the scope the rest of the game will encompass.

We've been shown the incomplete current state of the base game with none of the features applied. When more features appear and less bugs exist I think player #s will rise in turn

[Scarecrow71]

The problem with Steam's numbers is that it doesn't take into account people who bought from either Epic or the PD store directly.

[HowDoKerbal]

It’s normal for player count to drop off for a title at the state of development KSP2 is. There’s just not enough content to keep playing it full time, even if you can work with the bugs and performance issues.

For instance, I have acceptable performance and am not overly bothered by the bugs and have gone back to KSP1 because I have mods, progression, and goals to work towards there.

When a new patch drops people will return to check it out and then player count will drop again. This will repeat until there is enough content that people start switching to KSP2 full time over KSP1. Active player count isn’t a useful metric to make any sort of assumptions off of.

[twich22]

The good news is now that all the people who don't really care about the game or are not hardcore about it and dont want to be involved in its development or werent involved in the development of KSP 1 are out of the picture, the voices of those who actually care about the development of the game and know what they are talking about will not be drowned out by the useless masses. So im totally okay with it for now since the game is in such a bad state anyways and really needs appropriate prioritization of resources to get it to a playable state in a relatively short period of time. 

[RayneCloud]

Player retention numbers are always like this, for pretty much every game baring very active MMORPG's. 

[tstein]

16 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

The problem with Steam's numbers is that it doesn't take into account people who bought from either Epic or the PD store directly.

But it is a significant sample. You can expect basically the same proportion on  people that bought on all other sources

1 minute ago, RayneCloud said:

Player retention numbers are always like this, for pretty much every game baring very active MMORPG's. 

aaa not really. First week usually retains   more than 50% for most games without a start and  clear defined end...  and kerbal is in theory such a  game (although this EA might not be due to the shortage of content)

[MarcAbaddon]

A drop to 25% or 33% of the initial concurrent player count seems to be normal after a month. The KSP 2 drop seems steeper than that. 

[Scarecrow71]

9 minutes ago, twich22 said:

The good news is now that all the people who don't really care about the game or are not hardcore about it and dont want to be involved in its development or werent involved in the development of KSP 1 are out of the picture, the voices of those who actually care about the development of the game and know what they are talking about will not be drowned out by the useless masses. So im totally okay with it for now since the game is in such a bad state anyways and really needs appropriate prioritization of resources to get it to a playable state in a relatively short period of time. 

This is, unfortunately, not true.  Although the number of players has dropped, the vocal and angry majority have not stopped voicing their hatred even if they've stopped playing.  They simply can't wait to tell everyone around them that they stopped playing because the game was so bad.  I only hope that the devs and community managers and such can filter through that garbage to get down to the actual and real complaints from the people still playing.

[J.Random]

Keep in mind that the first days were the weekend. Considering how many bugs and inconveniences you have to wade through during any one game session, maybe people decide not to touch it on evenings during work week. (Although the situation may not be _much_ better during the upcoming weekend)

7 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

the vocal and angry majority have not stopped voicing their hatred

I'm sure the criticism is pretty much equalized by all the "great game, minor bugs"  from sunk cost victims. Steam reviews were ~50/50 last time I checked.

Edited March 3, 2023 by J.Random

[tstein]

Just now, Scarecrow71 said:

This is, unfortunately, not true.  Although the number of players has dropped, the vocal and angry majority have not stopped voicing their hatred even if they've stopped playing.  They simply can't wait to tell everyone around them that they stopped playing because the game was so bad.  I only hope that the devs and community managers and such can filter through that garbage to get down to the actual and real complaints from the people still playing.

That is not how you make a business work.  A good  business person  will tell you to IGNORE the ones still playing (because  costumers with  high resilience to turnover are NOT representative of potential market usually)  and focus on the ones that stopped, because the  turn over cases are the ones that will pinpoint you the real reason why  their sales suffer. If you listen to the people that are still here you fall in a classic  reinforced sampling bias. Aka.  You do not reinforce the part of the plane where there are marks of shots from returning bombers.. you reinforce the parts where  not a single bomber returned with  marks of shots

[jebycheek]

Yep this is a terrible game,the community reacting what it deserves, any excuses will fade on that terrible game quality.

I have seen some based Structure of this game and i think it's just too hard for them to make things right in any time soon.

[RayneCloud]

15 minutes ago, tstein said:

But it is a significant sample. You can expect basically the same proportion on  people that bought on all other sources

aaa not really. First week usually retains   more than 50% for most games without a start and  clear defined end...  and kerbal is in theory such a  game (although this EA might not be due to the shortage of content)

Okay, no, that's not accurate. It is simply just factually untrue and as devs we track this data and can see it.

The Industry Wide "Average User Retention Rates" are as follows,
Day 1 Retention
High - 35%
Median - 25%
Low - 15%

Day 7 Retention Rates
High - 10%
Median - 6%
Low - 2%

Only 25% of steam games are able to maintain a user retention rate ABOVE 4% after the first 30 days. 
Some VERY few games are able to retain upwards of 10%

 

There are full on doctoral thesis papers and studies about user retention rates, engagement, playability and accessibility factors dropping play rates, and more. At BEST, KSP2 is in the "Lowest" Sub Section of Data Points regarding retention which can show us a lot,

* The player base is unhappy with the game - we know this
* The game has major accessibility and playability issues - we also know this 
* Genre and Game Type play a factor - aka, KSP is a "Niche" game within a sub market of simulation and sandbox
* It's also under performing it's previous franchise sibling, that being KSP 1, as we all know. 

Is this worrying? A little, but we do see a LOT of user retention fluctuation in EA games as updates come out.

Edited March 3, 2023 by RayneCloud

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

6 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

I only hope that the devs and community managers and such can filter through that garbage to get down to the actual and real complaints from the people still playing.

The Community Managers are doing nothing to manage these expectations.  Not a single Beta/EA title in this condition has ever been as lacking in official response or communication as Private Division Dakota has managed to accomplish.

[Tazooka]

I'm one of the people who dropped off. I want to play KSP 2, but its so damn frustrating and annoying to play. My friends who play also are doing the same.

Every ship launch is almost impossible to complete without something major breaking. I don't have the patients anymore, not until its patched anyway

[tstein]

Just now, RayneCloud said:

Okay, no, that's not accurate. It is simply just factually untrue and as devs we track this data and can see it.

The Industry Wide "Average User Retention Rates" are as follows,
Day 1 Retention
High - 35%
Median - 25%
Low - 15%

Day 7 Retention Rates
High - 10%
Median - 6%
Low - 2%

Only 25% of steam games are able to maintain a user retention rate ABOVE 4% after the first 30 days. 
Some VERY few games are able to retain upwards of 10%

Read what I wrote. .. you missed a word Games without a start and end.. aka. games made to be played for long runs.  Things like civilization and flight sims for example.  If you are  checking a story mode game then people will stop as soon as they complete the game. I am used to check in the games I play  and  msot of the games I play get far better results than that, because I do not play   story games that  have a conclusion.

 

Also why you bringing up 30 days?   24th was not 30 days ago, was 7 days ago.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

@RayneCloud - you posted a very gentle prod to someone who's doing a job you used to do for this series.  You were complimentary and kind and also suggested they communicate a bit better.

Not seeing any response from them.*

Private Division isn't managing anything; the dumpster fire of reviews and unmet expectations is unchecked, nor responded to in anything approaching an adequate manner.  All players on any media are encouraged to post reports here on the forums - and there is zero response to any of it.

I'm not suggesting that every single post needs a response; far from it.  But even a once every two days 'hey, we hear you, we are working; thank so much for sticking around!' type post  would be appreciated.  Something suggesting 'hey - we will have a patch up in a week' would be excellent.

But PD Dakota is doing none of that.

 

*the lone post in your thread doesn't count.  I'm talking about participation on the forums and communication in general.  They're doing Bupkiss.

Edited March 3, 2023 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Moons]

24 minutes ago, twich22 said:

The good news is now that all the people who don't really care about the game or are not hardcore about it and dont want to be involved in its development or werent involved in the development of KSP 1 are out of the picture, the voices of those who actually care about the development of the game and know what they are talking about will not be drowned out by the useless masses. So im totally okay with it for now since the game is in such a bad state anyways and really needs appropriate prioritization of resources to get it to a playable state in a relatively short period of time. 

The mixture of coping and elitist mindset of some people is just absurd ... "the useless masses" - seriously if those are the people that are supposed to save the game then its already lost ...

[RayneCloud]

4 minutes ago, tstein said:

Read what I wrote. .. you missed a word Games without a start and end.. aka. games made to be played for long runs.  Things like civilization and flight sims for example.  If you are  checking a story mode game then people will stop as soon as they complete the game. I am used to check in the games I play  and  msot of the games I play get far better results than that, because I do not play   story games that  have a conclusion.

 

Also why you bringing up 30 days?   24th was not 30 days ago, was 7 days ago.

I read what you wrote. I do not agree with you. Moving on.

 

[TLTay]

People saying theses dropoff rates are ok should compare player counts of KSP1 vs KSP2. The new hotness has less players after a week than old and busted has after 10 years.

The state it was released in is famously inexcusable, and has already made it into the meta of diverse gaming communities. It has been popping up as a meme and joke in places completely unrelated to KSP.

Edited March 3, 2023 by TLTay

[RayneCloud]

3 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

@RayneCloud - you posted a very gentle prod to someone who's doing a job you used to do for this series.  You were complimentary and kind and also suggested they communicate a bit better.

Not seeing any response from them.*

Private Division isn't managing anything; the dumpster fire of reviews and unmet expectations is unchecked, nor responded to in anything approaching an adequate manner.  All players on any media are encouraged to post reports here on the forums - and there is zero response to any of it.

I'm not suggesting that every single post needs a response; far from it.  But even a once every two days 'hey, we hear you, we are working; thank so much for sticking around!' type post  would be appreciated.  Something suggesting 'hey - we will have a patch up in a week' would be excellent.

But PD Dakota is doing none of that.

 

*the lone post in your thread doesn't count.  I'm talking about participation on the forums and communication in general.  They're doing Bupkiss.

I'd be lying if I didn't agree with you on this one Joe, the communication right now is.. very bad. However, my hope is that they're focused on doing what matters, fixing bugs. 

[Tazooka]

4 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

@RayneCloud - you posted a very gentle prod to someone who's doing a job you used to do for this series.  You were complimentary and kind and also suggested they communicate a bit better.

Not seeing any response from them.*

Private Division isn't managing anything; the dumpster fire of reviews and unmet expectations is unchecked, nor responded to in anything approaching an adequate manner.  All players on any media are encouraged to post reports here on the forums - and there is zero response to any of it.

I'm not suggesting that every single post needs a response; far from it.  But even a once every two days 'hey, we hear you, we are working; thank so much for sticking around!' type post  would be appreciated.  Something suggesting 'hey - we will have a patch up in a week' would be excellent.

But PD Dakota is doing none of that.

 

*the lone post in your thread doesn't count.  I'm talking about participation on the forums and communication in general.  They're doing Bupkiss.

Totally agree and well said

[Moons]

[snip]

 

Fact is - this game started with 26k players and dropped to about 3k in a week - thats not normal - thats alarming and pretending its not wont help this game at all. It sholud be pretty obvious that actions (price drop etc.) have to be taken otherwise this game wont recover from all the negative press, reviews etc. it got because it sold in the state it is at a AAA full release price.

 

Thats a drop of almost 90% ...

Edited March 6, 2023 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[MarcAbaddon]

Let's be honest, the fact that the forum was done so long today was bad either. Imagine you pick up a successor to a beloved game, you run into a couple of really annoying bugs and when you want to report them not even the forum where you are supposed to do so, is not working properly.

I know the forum isn't maintained by the game devs, but it was still a very unfortunate coincidence. 

And I'd also agree that the rest of the communication isn't great - I mean you sort of get the minimum required answer that they are working on it.

Edited March 3, 2023 by MarcAbaddon