Translate / Rotate tools in the VAB

[Vl3d]

Now that you got used to KSP2.. what's your preference?

[The Aziz]

Nothing wrong with combined, only the tool needs to be more clear to use (bigger? Different design?)

[Vl3d]

5 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Nothing wrong with combined, only the tool needs to be more clear to use (bigger? Different design?)

I agree, I feel like the arrows are too thick now. And sometimes I have to move the camera because one gizmo is hidden behind another. Maybe they should be more spaced out. At least it's easier to use with just the mouse, we don't have to press 2 and 3 or an extra click.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Vl3d

[The Aziz]

8 hours ago, Vl3d said:

I have to move the camera because one gizmo is hidden behind another

That was also the case in KSP1. And honestly in any software that deals with 3D space, including things like Blender. Spacing them out a bit should help though.

 

[Stoup]

I do just wish there was a working way to change the translation's frame of reference, though. Not sure if it's just half-functional right now, but if you have, say, a part on a 45 degree angle radially around a fuel tank, there's no way to move it "towards" or "away" from the fuel tank, you just have to move it in two directions one after another to achieve the same effect.

[munix]

13 minutes ago, Stoup said:

I do just wish there was a working way to change the translation's frame of reference, though. Not sure if it's just half-functional right now, but if you have, say, a part on a 45 degree angle radially around a fuel tank, there's no way to move it "towards" or "away" from the fuel tank, you just have to move it in two directions one after another to achieve the same effect.

There is: press F while the tool is active, like in KSP1, or click on the tool button again and choose one of the two options that pop up

[Bej Kerman]

22 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Nothing wrong with combined, only the tool needs to be more clear to use (bigger? Different design?)

Indeed. Only problem is that both the rotational tools and translational tools use arrow motifs for their handles, which makes it feel cluttered. Credit where credit is due, if you combined KSP 1's widgets, the rotate/translate handles would be much clearer, with the rotational handles being represented as wheels rather than arrows. This seemingly small difference would make them much easier to tell apart. Other than that, that's basically the problem I have with them being combined - the designs don't feel like they were made to be combined, where they share the same square inch on your screen.

[MARL_Mk1]

Separate.

When working with lots of parts, it's annoying to have your visual space cluttered with thick 3D arrows.

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, MARL_Mk1 said:

Separate.

When working with lots of parts, it's annoying to have your visual space cluttered with thick 3D arrows.

In my above comment, I explain that this can be blamed on flimsy design rather than the idea of a combination itself. When complaining about something, it's important to fully understand what specifically you aren't happy with. I've seen people throw flac at the entire UI of KSP 2 over minor things like font inconsistencies, weird letters in the pixelated alphabet and how the edges of the navball have a dithered edge.

[The Aziz]

16 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

minor things like font inconsistencies, weird letters in the pixelated alphabet and how the edges of the navball have a dithered edge.

Well... 

These are among things that can be improved for the sake of better user experience, same as translation/rotation gizmo, button spacing etc. But this isn't the place for this discussion (again)

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

22 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

minor things like font inconsistencies, weird letters in the pixelated alphabet and how the edges of the navball have a dithered edge.

Well... 

These are among things that can be improved for the sake of better user experience, same as translation/rotation gizmo, button spacing etc. But this isn't the place for this discussion (again)

Isn't a thread dedicated to how the translate and rotate tools are provided to the player precisely where we should be discussing their designs? Extreme mental gymnastics would need to be put on display to explain how the designs of the manipulator handles are not relevant to the discussion here when it's likely responsible for people wanting the tools separate.

[Stoup]

1 hour ago, munix said:

There is: press F while the tool is active, like in KSP1, or click on the tool button again and choose one of the two options that pop up

Oh! Never knew exactly how that worked. Would make a good tooltip for building tutorial

[Vl3d]

4 hours ago, Stoup said:

Oh! Never knew exactly how that worked. Would make a good tooltip for building tutorial

Add more here.

[Rpatto92]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:29 AM, The Aziz said:

Nothing wrong with combined, only the tool needs to be more clear to use (bigger? Different design?)

This is a decent point, they could be improved to be more functional as they are.

However, whatever you do to improve them, they are always going to be more visually cluttered, fill screen space and less accessible from a variety of angles than a separate set of handles would be. They're at their worst when you're rooting through some clipped parts looking for the grandparent and unable to click the correct part or move the correct handle but they're also extremely flawed in the orthographic views; with some handles being almost entirely inaccessible. 

Perhaps a compromise could be reached. If they're going to be changed back to the original separate handles. Then there's no reason they couldn't also be kept around as menu option, togglable or perhaps separate handles available via the orthographic modes for difficult to reach parts. 

[regex]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:17 PM, Vl3d said:

Now that you got used to KSP2.. what's your preference?

I honestly can't remember what they were like in KSP1 so ... KSP2. I think the widget needs to be a bit slimmer but other than that it works as I expect it.

[cocoscacao]

Separated. Too much clutter when viewing from certain angles.

[Periple]

I’d like to try what it’s like if you could hold alt to rotate. Not having to go up to click a button is a big improvement but sometimes it is hard to grab the correct arrow! 

In my head this is still combined rather than separated so that’s what I voted!