LameLefty Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kerbart said: That is part of testing too. You don't just want to have a working "KSP2.exe" — you want to have one that works after downloading from Steam. So that part needs testing as well. And then there's this other aspect of testing: sometimes they fail. After all, if all your tests pass every single time, you wouldn't need testing at all. So maybe they had planned to release this Friday, but there were a few failed tests—a bug didn't get resolved after all, or maybe it introduced another bug severe enough to be considered "game breaking" You don't need to tell me how to test. I've been testing alpha, beta and RC candidate software for MS, Directv, Apple and several others as part of private, invitation-only test programs for close to two decades now. I've also done numerous closed, invitation-only tests of pre-production engineering sample hardware for MS and Directv. I know the drill. I can still be annoyed that it's been two weeks with no info other than a list a week ago about what's been fixed, and no software update to go with it. Edited March 10, 2023 by LameLefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, LameLefty said: I can still be annoyed that it's been two weeks with no info other than a list a week ago about what's been fixed, and no software update to go with it. Agreed. Especially about Nate having stated "These are the things we've fixed" without having actually released them. Like, what are they waiting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p331083 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Periple said: First off, once again, what we're seeing now is entirely reasonable and even pretty good for 3 1/2 years of work from a mid-sized studio. The only issue is that it was released to a public that expected something much more polished. And it is playable by any reasonable definition. I've been playing it for about 50 hours at this point, if it wasn't playable I wouldn't have been able to log even one hour. Youre saying its reasonable its taken them 3 1/2 years to recreate KSP 1 in it's .1 but VERY buggy state? [snip] Edited March 10, 2023 by Starhawk Redacted by moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoscacao Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, p331083 said: Youre saying its reasonable its taken them 3 1/2 years to recreate KSP 1 My God... I give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbart Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 hour ago, LameLefty said: You don't need to tell me how to test. I've been testing alpha, beta and RC candidate software for MS, Directv, Apple and several others as part of private, invitation-only test programs for close to two decades now. I've also done numerous closed, invitation-only tests of pre-production engineering sample hardware for MS and Directv. I know the drill. ...and did you learn from it? Like, testing and fixing issues can take time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameLefty Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Kerbart said: ...and did you learn from it? Like, testing and fixing issues can take time? I learned many things from all those experiences (some of which are still on going by the way). One of the biggest things I learned is, the best user experiences come from regular, detailed communications from the developers and key engineering contacts to the testing community and regular update schedules so feedback is both timely and on-point. Edited March 10, 2023 by LameLefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haustvindr Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 2 hours ago, RayneCloud said: So many of you forget ... I'm going to cut you there, because, you know, to forget something you first need to memorize it. You may be overstimating some capabilities there, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketRockington Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said: Agreed. Especially about Nate having stated "These are the things we've fixed" without having actually released them. Like, what are they waiting for? The problem is that Nate's big list is a list of low hanging, minor issues, mostly. They haven't tackled the key high priority bugs yet, or made improvements to the in-game performance, so releasing just that list would look like slapping a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 hour ago, MarcAbaddon said: they either decided to release knowingly with a lot of known critical bugs such as savegame corruption, SAS spinning out of control, issues with stable orbits and severe frame rate issues, or they didn't weren't even aware of those bugs. Oh I think they knew. But they also knew they had to stick to a ultimate deadline (probably forced from someone above). So they did what they could and now that the initial deadline is out of the way, they're hard at work to improve the experience and will release an update once the results are satisfying. 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said: Agreed. Especially about Nate having stated "These are the things we've fixed" without having actually released them. Like, what are they waiting for? Most of those fixed things don't match with most of the critical errors me and many others encountered, so they're not waiting, but working on other bugs to bring an update that hopefully smashes as many bugs as possible in the timeframe they chose. 9 minutes ago, LameLefty said: regular, detailed communications from the developers Once a week, so far, pretty regular if you ask me 10 minutes ago, LameLefty said: regular update schedules You can't tell if they're being irregular right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, The Aziz said: Most of those fixed things don't match with most of the critical errors me and many others encountered, so they're not waiting, but working on other bugs to bring an update that hopefully smashes as many bugs as possible in the timeframe they chose. I get that. But if they weren't going to release it until a few major bugs are squashed, then why mention it at all? Why not simply wait until the patch is released to say "Here's a list of everything we've fixed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Have you seen the angry crowd with torches and pitchforks? (Maybe you were a part of it or not, I don't know, I don't follow who's on which side of the fence) People asked for communication so they got one, proving that we were not left on the ice but that they were at work oh and btw here's what we already did in the last week. Whether people believed it or not, that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoscacao Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 This thread and the fact that we already have mods... before first bloody patch is a strong indicator how awesome the game already is. Let alone how it will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Some comments removed. Refrain from insults, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 So it's update next week. Moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geredis Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said: Agreed. Especially about Nate having stated "These are the things we've fixed" without having actually released them. Like, what are they waiting for? Indeed. As I view it, they've fixed nothing, and will, in my view, remain with having fixed nothing, until the content is out in the hands of the end-user. They can talk all they want about all they did, but not a single bit of what they claim to have done matters until and unless it is published and out there. So far all we have to show for what's happened, is 3 weeks of silence, vague promises, and a frustratingly amateurish/haphazard PR strategy that even still doesn't seem to meaningfully be addressing questions regarding content or timetables. And to that end, when I saw after Dev Diary 18 went up, a promise that there'd be "more coming today" in the announcement on Discord...I expected something much more informative than "look at the cool stuff people have made" about an hour and a half after that went up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 12 minutes ago, Geredis said: And to that end, when I saw after Dev Diary 18 went up, a promise that there'd be "more coming today" in the announcement on Discord...I expected something much more informative than "look at the cool stuff people have made" about an hour and a half after that went up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Just wanted to make a note for people complaining about "lack of regular communication compared to Squad on KSP1" are just making me want to despair-laugh. Back in 2017/2018, we would have killed for once-weekly updates and discussions of future plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketRockington Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jarin said: Just wanted to make a note for people complaining about "lack of regular communication compared to Squad on KSP1" are just making me want to despair-laugh. Back in 2017/2018, we would have killed for once-weekly updates and discussions of future plans. Squad did do better-than-weekly comms right before/after a release. If you want to compare apples to apples, either compare Squad's comms close to a version update - just a version update! to KSP2's comms with this disasterous launch, where we've only gotten some reasonable details now 2 weeks later. Or compare Squad's comms to KSP2's during the development, which was at the best of times monthly, and usually worse. Squad was doing version updates every 3 months, and leaking some teasers about it over the course of the update . And then keep in mind that Squad was a smaller developer with a smaller CM team. Also Squad developers jumped on twitch streams and answered direct questions about updates after many of the last version updates - something I think the developers of KSP2 would be scared to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameLefty Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 So. A patch in another 6 days from today. Maybe. At which point - if that date even holds - it will have been 3 weeks with obvious and crippling bugs present since Day 1. I literally dreamed about this game the night before it was released and bought it within 2 minutes of it going live on Steam. I am more than a little disappointed tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 10 hours ago, TickleMyMary said: Hopefully next week? I do see some movement here today... Kerbal Space Program 2 Depots · SteamDB The candidate branch update from 2d ago is very promissing, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, RocketRockington said: Squad did do better-than-weekly comms right before/after a release. No they didn't. Squad were absolute crap about communication until like, oh, five or six years into development. I'm still convinced they had no idea what they wanted out of the game and quite frankly it showed in the final product. Edited March 11, 2023 by regex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketRockington Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, regex said: No they didn't. Squad were absolute crap about communication until like, oh, five or six years into development. I'm still convinced they had no idea what they wanted out of the game and quite frankly it showed in the final product. So you're claiming that a tiny group of amateur developers with no dedicated CM people at all didnt manage to update the community as fast as you wanted, so it's ok that a big developer who has as many CMs as KSP1 had employees at the time you're pointing it out can get a pass. Ok... Edited March 11, 2023 by RocketRockington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Just now, RocketRockington said: So you're claiming that a tiny group of amateur developers with no dedicated CM people at all didnt manage to update the community as fast as you wanted, so it's ok that a big developer who has as many CMs as KSP1 had employees at the time you're pointing it out can get a pass. Those guys had dedicated CMs when I arrived sometime around 0.19, and even before that. The simple fact is that they were crap about communicating. Intercept here is doing a fine job unless you're impatient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketRockington Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, regex said: Those guys had dedicated CMs when I arrived sometime around 0.19, and even before that. The simple fact is that they were crap about communicating. Intercept here is doing a fine job unless you're impatient. [snip] But you're right, they had a CM that early. @RayneCloud That was you wasn't it? Found an old tweet that makes it seem the case. Edited March 11, 2023 by Vanamonde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoscacao Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 Amateur project means that you can do whatever you like, whenever you like. Having more people developing something also requires time to organise. They're not moving boxes around, they're developing a piece of software. In that regard, one major patch developed in an orchestrated manner brings more fixes within 2/3 week period than a bunch of isolated tiny fixes. Those can be very error prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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