No update this weekend.

[B15hop]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:48 PM, LameLefty said:

It would be really nice if the Forum got the same information as that bubbling fount of unfiltered ADHD-fueled jibber jabber.

Lol dude didn’t say next week.. Said “not this week”.. That could mean anything..

Did they say next week somewhere?

[thewhitemetroid]

Check in the announcements @B15hop

[Chilkoot]

22 minutes ago, B15hop said:

Did they say next week somewhere?

Nate posted earlier today saying target date for the first patch is next Thurs (March 16), barring unforeseen issues.

[Vanamonde]

Back off of the accusations, people. Some comments removed. 

[J.Random]

4 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Amateur project means that you can do whatever you like, whenever you like. Having more people developing something also requires time to organise. They're not moving boxes around, they're developing a piece of software. In that regard, one major patch developed in an orchestrated manner brings more fixes within 2/3 week period than a bunch of isolated tiny fixes. Those can be very error prone.

It's not 2-3 week period though, is it? The current build is very much the same as the one "influencers" used in that promotional event, the videos of which have been released on Feb 20th, and at least once I recall somebody mentioned that the event itself happened about 2 weeks before _that_. So that's close to 5 to 6 weeks for the first patch.

Of course, it's impossible to judge how much has been done in those 5 to 6 weeks until there's a changelog and the patch itself.

Edited March 11, 2023 by J.Random

[cocoscacao]

@J.Random If you really want to investigate, I just checked a video from SWDennis on youtube. It doesn't have a version attached, but build number is 20069, and changelist 184782 (not sure what changelist is). Anyway, patience is a virtue. I suspect it will be a 3 week update cycle, and that's not a big gap.

[Moons]

Honestly looking at the state of the game especially at the launch and player numbers (the reviews are devastating, looking at the videos there are lots of bugs) - i doubt that its a good idea to be overly cautious with patches - isnt the main point of EA having players test - so isnt doing quality-control now - after the lets say pretty bad release - a bad idea?

I think they will lose more players by delaying patches for quality control than they would lose by faster patches that may or may not fix things and add some new bugs - its not like the game is in a great state that has to be kept.

 

My Suggestion - do it like other EA-DEVs - add beta builds to the game (steam has that option) - stable and unstable builds and let players test - do patches faster with less quality control and smaller changes and let players test - thats what EA is for isnt it? This would also be way better for PR since people would get the feeling that there is work beeing done constantly and not looking at delay and patch announcement posts all the time.

 

If this game is supposed to make a comeback there have to be lots of changes - if your too slow maybe even by trying to be too perfect with patches you will actually maybe never make a comeback.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Moons

[Sturmalex]

Imagine getting your jimmies rustled because some early access game is buggy and the patch takes more than 2 weeks. smh

[The Aziz]

1 hour ago, Moons said:

think they will lose more players by delaying patches for quality control than they would lose by faster patches that may or may not fix things and add some new bugs

 "you fixed one thing but 5 others stopped working! Incompetent developers! Game is worse than it was on release!"

That's a great way to lose players than to shut up and keep working even if it takes a little longer (wasn't the general narration among the community along the lines of "sad for delay but take your time if you need it to bring the best thing you can"?)

[cocoscacao]

15 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

"you fixed one thing but 5 others stopped working! Incompetent developers! Game is worse than it was on release!"

After everything written in this thread, I can safely say you're responding to impatient brick walls that simply skim over all counter args, and continue to complain...

I'm happy devs aren't taking fast patch path for the reasons you've mentioned. Plus that approach always ends up with sneaking a little hack here and there, eventually ending up with a non-deterministic magic blob that no sane person can comprehend. And when that happens the only solution is the big rewrite, which never comes to pass...

Edited March 11, 2023 by cocoscacao

[Moons]

1 hour ago, Sturmalex said:

Imagine getting your jimmies rustled because some early access game is buggy and the patch takes more than 2 weeks. smh

"Imagine getting your jimmies rustled because someone has a different opinion regarding a game you like. smh"

26 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

 "you fixed one thing but 5 others stopped working! Incompetent developers! Game is worse than it was on release!"

That's a great way to lose players than to shut up and keep working even if it takes a little longer (wasn't the general narration among the community along the lines of "sad for delay but take your time if you need it to bring the best thing you can"?)

I dont think so this is EA - not a finished product and its not in a good state - i think its more important right now to give people the impression that lots of work is beeing done compared to watching out for quality - thats something that should have been done before releasing this EA version ...

 

Looking at the player numbers - do you seriously think they could lose players even faster?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Moons

[Haustvindr]

14 minutes ago, Moons said:

Looking at the player numbers - do you seriously think they could lose players even faster?

Counterpoint: do you really think they are worried about the number of players in the early access, or use it as any metric of success?

That might be the case when EA is used for hype, gauge the current interest, or as an early marketing platform... but this one is obviously not the case?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Haustvindr

[Stoup]

15 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

Counterpoint: do you really think they are worried about the number of players in the early access, or use it as any metric of success?

That might be the case when EA is used for hype, gauge the current interest, or as an early marketing platform... but this one is obviously not the case?

I don't actually agree that EA wasn't hyped up. Between ad campaigns on YouTube, the trailer they paid to have made, all the countdown to release windows that were posted, there was a lot done to get as many people as possible hyped for EA release

[Moons]

29 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

Counterpoint: do you really think they are worried about the number of players in the early access, or use it as any metric of success?

That might be the case when EA is used for hype, gauge the current interest, or as an early marketing platform... but this one is obviously not the case?

Yes i think so. Player retention and general reception will dicatate the financial success of the EA game and that will probably be an indicator for the publisher to look at it from an investment point of view.

This was obviously also used for hype - why do you think did they make those trailers etc.?

If this was only about finding bugs etc. they could have simply done public or closed beta - with either paid testers or fans that will do it for free - lots of games do that.

 

Counterpoint: do you really think they would release a game like this with marketing in a state like this at a price like this if it was only about having players testing the game? And do you really think if your EA flops compared to other similar EAs and loses way more players than other EAs in a short ammount of time will have no effect on the future of your product and how you view it - especially the publisher who has to invest? If i remember correctly this game had a huge ammount of people that had it on their steam  wishlist - even compared to other bigger titles.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Moons

[Haustvindr]

2 minutes ago, Stoup said:

I don't actually agree that EA wasn't hyped up. Between ad campaigns on YouTube, the trailer they paid to have made, all the countdown to release windows that were posted, there was a lot done to get as many people as possible hyped for EA release

I think you misunderstood.

There was certainly hype for the EA, but it was hype built by ourselves, in the very own community. I don't know about you, but I didn't see even one advertisement for KSP2 yet. Maybe if you count Steam own highlights that popup when starting the program we could count 1 ad, but I seriously don't remember seeing it there either.

Either way, you are talking about hype before launching the EA. I'm talking about using an EA to build hype for the release. That's something that studios do nowadays, and it is annoyingly common, but sadly it works.

[LameLefty]

Just now, Haustvindr said:

There was certainly hype for the EA, but it was hype built by ourselves, in the very own community. I don't know about you, but I didn't see even one advertisement for KSP2 yet

Ads were all over Meta-owned properties (both FB and Instagram were filled with them for me). In addition, in the ultimate in targeted digital advertising, during some of the streams and clips leading up to launch day, I was seeing KSP2 ads DURING STREAMS of KSP2.

That YOU did not see any ads doesn’t mean there wasn’t a very expensive hype campaign going on.

[Moons]

7 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

I think you misunderstood.

There was certainly hype for the EA, but it was hype built by ourselves, in the very own community. I don't know about you, but I didn't see even one advertisement for KSP2 yet. Maybe if you count Steam own highlights that popup when starting the program we could count 1 ad, but I seriously don't remember seeing it there either.

Either way, you are talking about hype before launching the EA. I'm talking about using an EA to build hype for the release. That's something that studios do nowadays, and it is annoyingly common, but sadly it works.

Are you serious?

They had a launch trailer and made lots of videos until the EA release:

https://www.youtube.com/@KerbalSpaceProgramOfficial/videos

EA Launch Cinematic

EA Gameplay Trailer

and 2 other videos in the last 4 months - after not releasing anything for 5 months on their channel.

 

They had a launch event with their biggest youtubers/influencers:

 

I cant say much about other stuff since i block ads etc. but what else - from your point of view would they have to do for you to see them market a launch?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Moons

[Stoup]

1 minute ago, Haustvindr said:

I think you misunderstood.

There was certainly hype for the EA, but it was hype built by ourselves, in the very own community. I don't know about you, but I didn't see even one advertisement for KSP2 yet. Maybe if you count Steam own highlights that popup when starting the program we could count 1 ad, but I seriously don't remember seeing it there either.

Either way, you are talking about hype before launching the EA. I'm talking about using an EA to build hype for the release. That's something that studios do nowadays, and it is annoyingly common, but sadly it works.

I tend to pipe up when this discussion comes around specifically because I did actually get a few ads for KSP2 preceding early access release. Probably a fair chunk of that is just search algorithms picking up on my suddenly huge amount of time spent here  but on YouTube, for example, I definitely got plenty of ads before videos started advertising KSP2.

As for the release, as in the full 1.0 release? As far as I can tell there's been as little mention of the 1.0 release of the game as there could be, given the huge amount of unknown variables between now and then. I can scarce imagine people in charge of KSP2'S image trying to get hype built up for such a far off window

[Haustvindr]

Just now, Moons said:

Yes i think so. Player retention and general reception will dicatate the financial success of the EA game and that will probably be an indicator for the publisher to look at it from an investment point of view.

This was obviously also used for hype - why do you think did they make those trailers etc.?

If this was only about finding bugs etc. they could have simply done public or closed beta - with either paid testers or fans that will do it for free - lots of games do that.

 

Counterpoint: do you really think they would release a game like this with marketing in a state like this at a price like this if it was only about having players test the game?

Which marketing? Did we see any marketing? Or did we see those videos directed to us who were following the development? I don't know about you, but I did see basically zero ads for KSP2. If you weren't already in the community or following KSP2 channels, you would miss the EA launch pretty easily.

Sure, it could have been a closed beta a la WoW with their beta realms. The real question is, would you have prefered it that way? Only a limited number of people able to enter?

At this point, it is likely that they prefer a smaller but very dedicated number of players that will actually help, and not tens of thousands players that their single focus is just "wanna pley now". Thing is, they opted for not limiting the access, and I can understand that, and I simpathize with that.

[Moons]

1 minute ago, Haustvindr said:

Which marketing? Did we see any marketing? Or did we see those videos directed to us who were following the development? I don't know about you, but I did see basically zero ads for KSP2. If you weren't already in the community or following KSP2 channels, you would miss the EA launch pretty easily.

Sure, it could have been a closed beta a la WoW with their beta realms. The real question is, would you have prefered it that way? Only a limited number of people able to enter?

At this point, it is likely that they prefer a smaller but very dedicated number of players that will actually help, and not tens of thousands players that their single focus is just "wanna pley now". Thing is, they opted for not limiting the access, and I can understand that, and I simpathize with that.

There was lots of marketing i saw some of it but probably not a lot since i block ads. But just look at my post above - there was a lot of marketing for a game like this. Did you seriously not see all the KSP trailers, they even had a pre-launch event for influencers? It was also all over Steam.

Sorry but i think you just missed most of it for whatever reason.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Moons

[Haustvindr]

10 minutes ago, LameLefty said:

Ads were all over Meta-owned properties (both FB and Instagram were filled with them for me). In addition, in the ultimate in targeted digital advertising, during some of the streams and clips leading up to launch day, I was seeing KSP2 ads DURING STREAMS of KSP2.

That YOU did not see any ads doesn’t mean there wasn’t a very expensive hype campaign going on.

 

5 minutes ago, Moons said:

Are you serious?

They had a launch trailer and made lots of videos until the EA release:

https://www.youtube.com/@KerbalSpaceProgramOfficial/videos

EA Launch Cinematic

EA Gameplay Trailer

and 2 other videos in the last 4 months - after not releasing anything for 5 months on their channel.

 

They had a launch event with their biggest youtubers/influencers:

 

I cant say much about other stuff since i block ads etc. but what else - from your point of view would they have to do for you to see them market a launch?

 

5 minutes ago, Stoup said:

I tend to pipe up when this discussion comes around specifically because I did actually get a few ads for KSP2 preceding early access release. Probably a fair chunk of that is just search algorithms picking up on my suddenly huge amount of time spent here  but on YouTube, for example, I definitely got plenty of ads before videos started advertising KSP2.

As for the release, as in the full 1.0 release? As far as I can tell there's been as little mention of the 1.0 release of the game as there could be, given the huge amount of unknown variables between now and then. I can scarce imagine people in charge of KSP2'S image trying to get hype built up for such a far off window

I don't really count videos made by KSP-oriented youtubers as ads, neither the prelaunch event, because I knew about it due to me myself staying atop of the info. To be fair, I don't really count official videos as ads either for the same reason. What I count as ads are... well, ads. But I can understand if you don't think in the same line as me, no worries.

Okay, if you all saw real ads, then dunno. It might be a regional thing. I concede this one.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Haustvindr

[Moons]

9 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

 

 

I don't really count videos made by KSP-oriented youtubers as ads, neither the prelaunch event, because I knew about it due to me myself staying atop of the info. To be fair, I don't really count official videos as ads either for the same reason. What I count as ads are... well, ads. But I can understand if you don't think in the same line as me, no worries.

Okay, if you all saw real ads, then dunno. It might be a regional thing. I concede this one.

Okay - so you dont caunt ads as ads neither by youtubers, nor events, nor official launch trailers - how are we supposed to argue with you?

What you just posted are Ads - by every definition.

 

If even an official trailer and a launch event for influencers to you isnt ads - then what is? Did you expect billboards on the streets and on the times square?

Edited March 11, 2023 by Moons

[LameLefty]

12 minutes ago, Haustvindr said:

don't really count videos made by KSP-oriented youtubers as ads,

You misunderstand … DURING THOSE VIDEOS, YouTube inserts ads every so often (since I don’t pay for YT’s ad-free subscription services).  During the week leading up to launch, guys likeMatt Lowne, Billy Wynn Jr. and a couple others would post clips made from footage recorded during their 3 hours with the game at ESA.

Watching THOSE videos, the ads inserted by YouTube were slick, commercially-produced KSP2 ads. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by LameLefty

[Haustvindr]

7 minutes ago, Moons said:

Okay - so you dont caunt ads as ads neither by youtubers, nor events, nor official launch trailers - how are we supposed to argue with you?

What you just posted are Ads - by every definition.

Ads are... advertisements... Pieces of infographic content with the intent to make you buy a product or service.

So... Tv ads that try to sell you a perfume. Internet ads that try to sell you cheaper shoes. And so on.

A youtuber making a video about a game going EA, but not trying to sell it to me is... content, not an ad.

A video from an official channel notifying about going EA is... content.

Either way, you already stated that there were also proper ads, so I already conceded. No problem.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Haustvindr

[cocoscacao]

1 minute ago, LameLefty said:

the ads inserted by YouTube were slick

How do you live with YouTube but without ad blocker?