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Did You Revert Flight Back To KSP1?


Cpt Kerbalkrunch

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I simply had to.

Hello to all. Been gone a long time but, as they say with smokers, nobody quits forever. It's been nice to see so many familiar screen names still here; and just as nice to see so many new players as well.

For myself, after 4,000 hours or so, I finally moved on from KSP and decided to tackle the dozens of games I have and never even tried (a lot of them I never even downloaded). Some of them were really good, but KSP is the ex you just can't stop thinking about. And ever since KSP2 was announced, the rocket launching bug was in my brain and just wouldn't let go.

So I violated my own, long-standing, personal rule to never, under any circumstances, buy an early access game. The moment it was announced I said I would do so, and even the bad word of mouth on the forum didn't stop me. Though I didn't buy KSP until the official 1.0 release, I bought Making History the moment it was released (which I thought was worth it). I did the same with Breaking Ground (which was excellent). This is to say that I'm a long-time fan, and I don't mind spending money to support my rocket habit; as well as the people who make that habit possible.

So I bought this game. And, honestly, I don't regret it. I don't even regret the crazy, spur of the moment, decision to finally leave laptop gaming behind and take MicroCenter up on their 3 years no interest for new PC's. I wanted to experience this game (and others) in glorious 4k. I spent more than I would've liked, but I definitely got my money's worth (and only 32 more payments :D).

As for the game? I'm running at 4k, all settings on high, so everything looks really good. And, as everyone seems to agree, the sound is great. The bugs? I don't think there's any way to sugarcoat it; they're bad. You can work around a lot of it, though. And patches can take care of those eventually. But the actual game play? That was what did it for me.

I'm not a plane or spaceplane guy, and I've never played anything but career mode, so I find that there's surprisingly little to do. I can go to any one of the planets or moons I've been to literally hundreds of times to see their new face-lifts, but that doesn't really excite me as much as it probably should. Without any progression or incentive, I found myself completely listless. Since Jool is the easiest planet to eyeball a transfer, I decided to send a lander to Bop. Couldn't tell you what the surface looked like, cuz I flew right through it. Ended up at negative 5km when I killed the mission and started over. Kept it simple and went to Minmus (my favorite refueling station in my early days). There, I can at least tell you what the surface looked like. Absolutely beautiful. Icy was my first thought. But there was no real feeling. Very anticlimactic. And there was more of that to come. I set off for home and hit Kerbin's atmosphere and... nothing. I knew that reentry heating was not enabled yet, but it was still a serious disappointment. I think we all get that feeling after a successful or really difficult mission, when you hit Kerbin and see your ship cooking on the way in. Wondering what's going to burn off and blow up or whether you're gonna survive reentry at all (my personal record is just over 8km/s; nail-biting).

Though it seems a bit strange, I can get used to the new UI (especially with key mapping). The look and feel of the game is surely going to change over time. I'm looking forward to Thursday's patch as much as the next guy, but I've played enough now to know that the next patch isn't gonna help me. I need the next version. One in which they add some of the missing features. A mode other than sandbox (some kind of progression), reentry heating (a must), and preferably colonies and additional solar systems.

For now, I've got the itch again. So I went online, found a bunch of visual mods, and loaded up KSP1. Just the music on the title screen (which I've literally heard 1,000 times) put me in a good mood. Started a new career, launched my first tiny rocket from the burnt patch of ground that you start with, and I was having fun again. I honestly think I would've paid 50 bucks for a KSP1 remaster with all the glitzy new graphics.

My feeling is that, when enough bugs have been squashed and features have been added, player count will start to rise. My plan is to check in on each new update to see what's what, then probably had back to KSP1 til it's been surpassed.

Which finally brings me back to the point. Did you revert back to KSP1 also? If so, what was the deal-breaker? The performance? The bugs? Missing features? All of the above? Or something else entirely? And if you're still on KSP2, what keeps you going? Other than sights and sounds, what do you feel is better than the original? I'm having a hard time seeing anything, but maybe I'm just missing. Lemme know what you guys think. And sorry for the long post. Been reading everyone else's posts and trying to  think what I wanted to say. Took me a while to put it together.  Thanks for reading.

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Nope. I played a science mode game a few months ago and was thoroughly unimpressed with KSP1 after all this time. The UI is ugly and scattered, the gameplay outside of the core build/fly/repeat stuff is boring and poorly thought-out (IMO KSP2 is miles better in the build/fly/repeat game even with the bugs because the game actually looks like it belongs in this decade), and you have to use mods to make KSP1 not bland. Going back to that old crusty interface is the last thing I want to do. I'm enjoying KSP2 and am looking forward to see where they take it, and if it disappears tomorrow I'll have gotten my money's worth.

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4 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

Per steamdb, KSP1 has seen a noticeable bump in daily players roughly since the launch of KSP2.  Could be the advertising, could be what happened with you.

I've seen this as well. But I'm actually not represented in those numbers. After almost 3,000 hours of playing bone-stock (seriously, I loved it that much), I got into the habit of keeping multiple copies of KSP with different visual mods and planet packs. So even now I always play offline. I suspect a lot of others do as well. Which means the numbers of KSP1 vs 2 is likely even more skewed than we know. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

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12 minutes ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I've seen this as well. But I'm actually not represented in those numbers. 

Sure.  Some people aren't launching KSP2 with the launcher and invisible as well.  I imagine there's more invisible KSP1 players vs live on steam, than the case for KSP2 because of ckan, but I don't know.  The data is more the trend line rather than the specific #s.

One things that is incredible about KSP1 is how high its attach ratio is though - peak vs daily players even after 8 years released - not even updated for a long while - is very high.

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4 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

Sure.  Some people aren't launching KSP2 with the launcher and invisible as well.  I imagine there's more invisible KSP1 players vs live on steam, than the case for KSP2 because of ckan, but I don't know.  The data is more the trend line rather than the specific #s.

One things that is incredible about KSP1 is how high its attach ratio is though - peak vs daily players even after 8 years released - not even updated for a long while - is very high.

Agreed. The numbers always seem a bit distorted. I've often wondered, is it because KSP is just unique? Or just because the fan base is so loyal? Probably a bit of both.

 

33 minutes ago, regex said:

Nope. I played a science mode game a few months ago and was thoroughly unimpressed with KSP1 after all this time. The UI is ugly and scattered, the gameplay outside of the core build/fly/repeat stuff is boring and poorly thought-out (IMO KSP2 is miles better in the build/fly/repeat game even with the bugs because the game actually looks like it belongs in this decade), and you have to use mods to make KSP1 not bland. Going back to that old crusty interface is the last thing I want to do. I'm enjoying KSP2 and am looking forward to see where they take it, and if it disappears tomorrow I'll have gotten my money's worth.

I find this interesting. It's the kind of the response I was looking for on the pro KSP2 side. I know you've always despised the stock game (I saw enough of your posts years ago), so I'm curious what you think is so much better about the stock game (as it is now) of KSP2 that you think is superior? I've already freely conceded that the graphics of the sequel is better than the original. To that, I would also say that the effects in the new Star Wars trilogy is superior to that of the original Star Wars trilogy (yes I realize 35 years is not 12 years, but you get my meaning). When you consider the advances between the releases (not to mention the money spent), than they absolutely should look superior. But that doesn't make them necessarily better. I'm not saying that this game won't surpass the original. I absolutely believe it will, eventually. But I'm wondering what you think is better right now. Again, it could be that I just don't see it from simple bias, but I also think that those who do should at least consider some bias on their own part as well. 

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6 minutes ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

But I'm wondering what you think is better right now.

Given the bugs I've been limiting myself to Kerbin and the surrounds, and there is no lack of things to look at and explore. There are definitely some headaches but I expected that, so I'm working around them and actually having a fun time with the engineering challenges. As for everything else, I've already explained what I think is better: the UI, the graphics, the build/fly/repeat gameplay... While there may not be any progression at the moment I can live with that (I did with KSP1 for a while as well), especially considering KSP1's progression is uninspired at best. So like, what do I have to draw me back in to KSP1? Mods? I've done my time trying to manage an RO/RP-1 install, no thanks, it was fun for a while but I just don't care enough to deal with the eyebleach of the base game.

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Honestly? KSP2's entire experience ruined KSP1 for me and that's due to one reason:

The sound design of the rockets (Which no mod comes close to KSP2's) and the music. The music keeps me with KSP2. And sure, there's plenty of other things going on:

The new UI aesthetic is great. I love it. Still debating my feeling on the parts manager, though.
The facelifted parts? Sure, they're great on a modded KSP1, but they look even better on KSP2. Same with the rocket plumes.
The overhauled planets. Again, modded KSP2 looks good, and when it comes to surface scatter, Parallax beats out KSP2. However, each planet has more distinct features and they're a bit more unique. I still get a kick out of it every time I land on the Mun or Minmus.

Honestly, it's the overall feeling and experience that KSP2 offers that, in my opinion, blows the original title out of the water. Yes, it has some serious issues but they can be worked around. Not going to lie... 8 fps launches reminds me of the good ol days of KSP1 during 0.20.

When I tried going back to KSP1, I just couldn't enjoy it as much. KSP2 has ruined KSP1 for me, now that's not to say I don't love the original KSP. But now, I think it'll sit in my library forever now. Maybe I'll come back to it, maybe I won't, but I'm happy that I got to experience the original game.
 

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11 minutes ago, regex said:

Given the bugs I've been limiting myself to Kerbin and the surrounds, and there is no lack of things to look at and explore. There are definitely some headaches but I expected that, so I'm working around them and actually having a fun time with the engineering challenges. As for everything else, I've already explained what I think is better: the UI, the graphics, the build/fly/repeat gameplay... While there may not be any progression at the moment I can live with that (I did with KSP1 for a while as well), especially considering KSP1's progression is uninspired at best. So like, what do I have to draw me back in to KSP1? Mods? I've done my time trying to manage an RO/RP-1 install, no thanks, it was fun for a while but I just don't care enough to deal with the eyebleach of the base game.

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you've been building planes (or the like). If that's the case, I get it. From the screenshots I've seen, planes look extremely cool. I think we disagree on the UI, though. Perhaps in time I'll get into it but, at the moment, I prefer the original. As I said, though, key mapping will at least help with that.

 

14 minutes ago, LostElement said:

Honestly? KSP2's entire experience ruined KSP1 for me and that's due to one reason:

The sound design of the rockets (Which no mod comes close to KSP2's) and the music. The music keeps me with KSP2. And sure, there's plenty of other things going on:

The new UI aesthetic is great. I love it. Still debating my feeling on the parts manager, though.
The facelifted parts? Sure, they're great on a modded KSP1, but they look even better on KSP2. Same with the rocket plumes.
The overhauled planets. Again, modded KSP2 looks good, and when it comes to surface scatter, Parallax beats out KSP2. However, each planet has more distinct features and they're a bit more unique. I still get a kick out of it every time I land on the Mun or Minmus.

Honestly, it's the overall feeling and experience that KSP2 offers that, in my opinion, blows the original title out of the water. Yes, it has some serious issues but they can be worked around. Not going to lie... 8 fps launches reminds me of the good ol days of KSP1 during 0.20.

When I tried going back to KSP1, I just couldn't enjoy it as much. KSP2 has ruined KSP1 for me, now that's not to say I don't love the original KSP. But now, I think it'll sit in my library forever now. Maybe I'll come back to it, maybe I won't, but I'm happy that I got to experience the original game.
 

Hope I'm not misinterpreting, but it sounds like you're saying "sights and sounds". I freely admit those are far superior in KSP2. I just, at this point, believe that everything else is superior in KSP1. By that I mean gameplay itself. Are you actually enjoying the gameplay more in KSP2, or just the look/sound?

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36 minutes ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you've been building planes (or the like). If that's the case, I get it. From the screenshots I've seen, planes look extremely cool. I think we disagree on the UI, though. Perhaps in time I'll get into it but, at the moment, I prefer the original. As I said, though, key mapping will at least help with that.

 

Hope I'm not misinterpreting, but it sounds like you're saying "sights and sounds". I freely admit those are far superior in KSP2. I just, at this point, believe that everything else is superior in KSP1. By that I mean gameplay itself. Are you actually enjoying the gameplay more in KSP2, or just the look/sound?

Nah, I exclusively build rockets. Never once built a SSTO and I can count the number of times I've built a plane on my hand.

While KSP1 has more gameplay, I find myself currently enjoying KSP2 more as a whole despite that there is less features in this game than the original. 

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15 minutes ago, LostElement said:

Nah, I exclusively build rockets. Never once built a SSTO and I can count the number of times I've built a plane on my hand.

While KSP1 has more gameplay, I find myself currently enjoying KSP2 more as a whole despite that there is less features in this game than the original. 

The first quote was meant for Regex (about planes/spaceplanes), but I find it interesting that you're enjoying the game as is more than the original. I'm gonna wait 'til the first patch to try again, but I'm definitely not giving up. I'm confident it'll get there. I just don't think it's there yet.

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9 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

Per steamdb, KSP1 has seen a noticeable bump in daily players roughly since the launch of KSP2.  Could be the advertising, could be what happened with you.

It deserves it. KSP2 does not. 
 

EDIT: yet…

Edited by Majorjim!
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10 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I think we disagree on the UI, though. Perhaps in time I'll get into it but, at the moment, I prefer the original.

Agreed.  While the new UI isn't terrible, it pales in comparison to the old one.  The old one seems to be easier on my middle aged eyes, while the new one just looks clunky and too modern.  I'm a minimalist kind of guy when it comes to asthetics, so the old UI did it for me.

Perhaps the new one will grow on me.

Edited by Scarecrow71
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13 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

 

Which finally brings me back to the point. Did you revert back to KSP1 also? If so, what was the deal-breaker? The performance? The bugs? Missing features? All of the above? Or something else entirely? And if you're still on KSP2, what keeps you going? Other than sights and sounds, what do you feel is better than the original? I'm having a hard time seeing anything, but maybe I'm just missing. Lemme know what you guys think. And sorry for the long post. Been reading everyone else's posts and trying to  think what I wanted to say. Took me a while to put it together.  Thanks for reading.

Went back to KSP1 with all the visuals mods etc., it really looks good and fun to play, better than KSP2! 

KSP2 is just not what was promised since every delay announcement.  Performance, bugs,  visuals (UI), content, its just too much missing for me to enjoy. I was promised a polished and refined game, but when EA was announced I was shocked, weren't we promised something else? Ok... then I thought maybe it's a good state anyways, so I bought it, but refunded after one hour and couldn't get my head around it. I was left with my mouth wide open and with the thought "What the heck happened in all these years?" .

KSP2 is not for me, but I'm enjoying KSP1 again will all the superb mods out there. So to be honest thanks KSP2 for bringing KSP1 to my attention again. ;-) 

 

Will follow KSP2 a bit in the background, but will check back in a year, maybe two.

Edited by Ferio
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I'm kind of in a middle ground, I guess.

Like you, I prefer a lot more structure in my sandboxes than KSP2 currently offers. Only ever played KSP1 in career for this reason - and that feeling of progression massively lacking for me in KSP2 when I can just build whatever I want with any parts, and have no real reason to go anywhere yet. Exploration is cool and all, I get the motivation, but it's just not enough for my tastes. Like you, the lack of reentry drama really does detract something important from the sense of returning from a hard, dangerous mission.

In addition, often I found when I was exploring, I'd notice interesting things and want to check them out - yet also get a feeling that I wanted to 'save' the exploration for a proper structured playthrough. Weird, maybe, but it almost felt like I'd be giving myself spoilers by exploring things in a full sandbox mode. Like, I want to visit the other planets and see what they're like. But without any constraints on my actions it just feels, to me, almost like I'd be cheating.

KSP1 does have just so much more 'stuff' due to the modding community. More parts than you could ever need, interesting new components and mechanics to give even more structure / reason to launch missions or visit the worlds. Comparing the two games might be unfair, given how long the community has developed mods, but it is a big difference all the same.

But, KSP2 does have a lot going for it too (without repeating all the arguments about the current state). I'd forgotten what it felt like to have a KSP game load up in a few seconds, there's a range of quality of life features so to me it just feels more 'comfortable' (for want of a better word).

I can see the appeal of going back, modded KSP1 is just so much 'more' right now, so much bigger, but I don't think it's for me.

Until the science / progression systems arrive, I'll probably not be putting a ton of hours into KSP2, I think - just bits here and there. But I also don't feel too inclined to return to KSP1 either. I have other games to play, and will play them instead - while dropping back in on KSP2 from time to time to keep up with updates and so on, until I feel there's enough there for my personal tastes to do a proper playthrough. Whilst trying to contribute to the community if I can. This is why I bought into the early access, after all - to follow the progress as it goes, and add any feedback I can that might be half decent because I want this game to be good.

That being said, I do kind of have a wish to have one final play of KSP1 with a nice big RP-1 install, but right now I've just got so many other games I want to play that it's just not close to the top of my list.

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13 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Reading between the lines, it sounds like you've been building planes (or the like). If that's the case, I get it. From the screenshots I've seen, planes look extremely cool. I think we disagree on the UI, though. Perhaps in time I'll get into it but, at the moment, I prefer the original. As I said, though, key mapping will at least help with that.

Oh, you thought I was trying to convince you to stay with KSP2?

lolno, those are only my thoughts on the game, since you asked. For me KSP1 is old tech, it served its purpose but I have better things now. It's up to you to make that decision for yourself.

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18 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

I can go to any one of the planets or moons I've been to literally hundreds of times to see their new face-lifts, but that doesn't really excite me as much as it probably should.

Definitely one of the bigger concerns with the design decision to keep the same planetary system - visuals aside, it's a carbon copy.   Offhand, I can't think of a single game where the immediate sequel opens in literally the same starter zone but with updated models.

The transfer planner I'm using for KSP 2 was written in 2014.  I realize there's new interplanetary content on the horizon, but the rehash has popped a lot of balloons for people, it seems.

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17 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Which finally brings me back to the point. Did you revert back to KSP1 also?

Nope.  Still playing with KSP2. 

I'm a casual player, maybe a few hours on weekends and an hour or two a couple nights during the week.  I never really got too far in KSP1.   I visited the local moons and a couple nearby planets, built some planes, rovers, comm networks, and some pretty crude space stations.  Never picked up any of the expansion packs. 

I'm hoping to accomplish a lot more in KSP2.  The graphics keep me coming back and I'm pretty patient so I don't mind waiting for the patches.

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28 minutes ago, Chilkoot said:

Definitely one of the bigger concerns with the design decision to keep the same planetary system - visuals aside, it's a carbon copy.   Offhand, I can't think of a single game where the immediate sequel opens in literally the same starter zone but with updated models.

The transfer planner I'm using for KSP 2 was written in 2014.  I realize there's new interplanetary content on the horizon, but the rehash has popped a lot of balloons for people, it seems.

There's probably 4-6 camps of players:

  1. Those who build something that never leaves Kerbin.
  2. Those who reach orbit but that's about it.
  3. Those who reach the Mun, even Minmus, and are relatively comfortable doing stuff within the Kerbin planetary system.
  4. Those who can reach every point of the Kerbolar system - and even get back!

I'm in camp 3, capable of stepping into camp 4, but without the confidence (yet). Keeping the Kerbolar system more or less as it was in KSP1 lets us solidify that confidence in a familiar place, and eventually move to camp 4 and beyond. From an exploring new frontiers point of view, there's probably nothing for the veteran players besides a few easer eggs in this iteration of KSP. While Intercept solidifies the base for KSP2, us camp 1-3 folks can solidify our bases, and hopefully by the time interstellar components are available, we can join you folks.

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9 minutes ago, Casellina X said:

There's probably 4-6 camps of players:

  1. Those who build something that never leaves Kerbin.
  2. Those who reach orbit but that's about it.
  3. Those who reach the Mun, even Minmus, and are relatively comfortable doing stuff within the Kerbin planetary system.
  4. Those who can reach every point of the Kerbolar system - and even get back!

I'm in camp 3, capable of stepping into camp 4, but without the confidence (yet). Keeping the Kerbolar system more or less as it was in KSP1 lets us solidify that confidence in a familiar place, and eventually move to camp 4 and beyond. From an exploring new frontiers point of view, there's probably nothing for the veteran players besides a few easer eggs in this iteration of KSP. While Intercept solidifies the base for KSP2, us camp 1-3 folks can solidify our bases, and hopefully by the time interstellar components are available, we can join you folks.

I'm similarly in camp 3, or at least was. I played some KSP 1 but ended up  getting distracted by life a bit before I finally left the Kerbin system. However,  so far in KSP 2 I've been pretty solidly doing interplanetary missions. I've now done 5 interplanetary missions in KSP 2, and one of them was even a success!

In general, I've personally have been having a lot of fun in KSP 2. The updated graphics really does make me want to head to other planets and see them up close. I've got a fairly good machine and the only time I've experienced bad  frame rate was with 4x physical time warp. Not sure if I'm just lucky or not but I have yet to experience a game breaking glitch. I've had plenty of glitches mind, but they usually have either been harmless or something I can fix just by loading the last save I made. 

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned too often in KSP 2 is acceleration under timewarp. So far, most of my missions have been with unmanned probes driven by ion engines, just cause I think probes are cool looking. In KSP 1 ion engines were near unusable since you would have to leave your computer running for half an hour to complete one burn. With KSP 2 though, I can easily complete an hour long burn in roughly less then a minute, making ion engines way more practical for actual use. KSP 2 still has a long way to go, but they seriously nailed this feature at the very least.

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9 hours ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Only went back to KSP1 to check framerates on my new machine.  I’ve been almost everywhere and done a lot in KSP1.  There’s very little novelty and challenge there for me anymore. 

This is pretty funny, cuz I actually did the same thing. With all the talk about performance, I decided to load up KSP1 with a bunch of visual mods to for a comparison. When I started the game I realized I actually wanted to play.

You're right about novelty and challenge as well. Just 3 days in, I've got missions coming back from Jool and Dres that will unlock the rest of the tech tree. That's the point at which I usually start to grow listless. Hoping the first patch stabilizes things a bit. Maybe I'll mess around with planes or something (which I'm terrible at).

 

8 hours ago, regex said:

Oh, you thought I was trying to convince you to stay with KSP2?

Uhhh, no. Wasn't thinking that.

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5 hours ago, Chilkoot said:

Definitely one of the bigger concerns with the design decision to keep the same planetary system - visuals aside, it's a carbon copy.   Offhand, I can't think of a single game where the immediate sequel opens in literally the same starter zone but with updated models.

The transfer planner I'm using for KSP 2 was written in 2014.  I realize there's new interplanetary content on the horizon, but the rehash has popped a lot of balloons for people, it seems.

This is an excellent point. I hadn't really thought about it, but I definitely got the feeling that the game was geared more toward new players (especially the cartoonish tutorials). Not necessarily a bad thing, I guess, but I suspect that they were also worried about a pitchfork mob showing up if they tried to change the Kerbol system. Probably a legitimate concern.

 

Picard2, I found myself nodding along with your entire post. I think we're pretty much on the same page. But this really stood out:

 

10 hours ago, Picard2 said:

In addition, often I found when I was exploring, I'd notice interesting things and want to check them out - yet also get a feeling that I wanted to 'save' the exploration for a proper structured playthrough. Weird, maybe, but it almost felt like I'd be giving myself spoilers by exploring things in a full sandbox mode. Like, I want to visit the other planets and see what they're like. But without any constraints on my actions it just feels, to me, almost like I'd be cheating.

 

This is exactly how I feel as well. I've been avoiding spoilers, and even most screenshots, cuz I don't wanna spoil any secrets. Exploring and finding new things in a sandbox style setting doesn't really appeal to me. I'd like to experience all these things in a proper playthrough.  I intend to do the same as you; keep checking in with each update and wait 'til things get better (which I believe they will eventually).

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I tried to go back to KSP1 this week, but I’m really burnt out on it. Somewhere in my 1,125 hours in the game it stopped being as fun, and that’s one of the reasons I’m so excited for KSP2 - that it could help with some of the problems in the original that annoy me, and make the experience new again. Unfortunately KSP2 isn’t quite in a playable state for me, so right now I’m unable to enjoy either.

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